Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

kallisti,

notice that people who support astro-theology have two approaches to the data: 1) they tend to ignore sumer completely. this is because sumer proves the texts are not isolated phenomenon, and many questions can be answered by them, and 2) the bible is a copy of other beliefs, even though it's obvious these connections are evidence of common frame of reference, modified by cultural norm and language variation.

you can thank Bab-el for that.

Anyone who is sincerely interested in the facts and credible evidence substantiating Zeitgeist part 1 on religion needs to read this:

The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

"...This effort includes much new source material drawn from primary sources as well the works from credentialed authorities in a variety of relevant subjects. Indeed, I have strived to include the best and most thorough, scholarly and modern sources wherever possible, with the result that many authorities cited here possess credentials from respected institutes of higher learning, and their publishers are some of the most scholarly in English (and other languages), such as:

E.J. Brill
Peeters
Kegan Paul
Oxford University/Clarendon Press
Princeton University Press
Cambridge University Press
Cornell University Press
Yale University Press
University of Chicago Press
University of Pennsylvania Press
University of Wisconsin Press
Johns Hopkins Press
Harcourt, Brace & Co.
MacMillan & Co., etc.

This Sourcebook thus provides relevant primary-source material and citations from respectable and credentialed authorities, along with germane images to support the first part of ZG’s contentions. There are over 150 sources cited in this Sourcebook, in nearly 350 footnotes...."

- Acharya S, Preface for The ZEITGEIST Sourcebook Part 1
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

* Those who really know what academia is will recognize the list above as the best of the best and most highly respected institutes of higher learning. Hand-waving dismissals will not suffice. www.freethoughtnation.com...

Documented Sources for Zeitgeist Part One
thezeitgeistmovement.com...:_The_Greatest_Story_Ever_Told

Zeitgeist Part 1 & the Supportive Evidence
freethoughtnation.com...

Originally posted by shagreen heart
25 pages and we are still arguing fantasy vs. fantasy (again, NOT facts). divide and conquer indeed.

all this thread accomplished was that myopic religious fanatics would rather behead one another's character (and i'm sure literally) than see the forest for the trees. getting the religious myths correct do not matter. please try to realize this and dismantle all the distractions you're compounding on yourselves and eachother.

I thought the same thing.... and....the addiction is overwhelming to feed the frenzy. (help me find the off button please as I keep clicking the next page. that is my addiction I admit)

The facts ---> the fantasy ---> the blatant and unavoidable link between fantasy myth should be the end of the topic, but nooooo! The fanatics gets caught up in what part of the fantasy is actual accurate fantasy myth, or REAL correct myth? lol.
as if there is a real myth. oxymoron!!
Debating corrections of myths as though they are real is important to christians to defend the bible. that is why they are so ego hurt by it.
If they debated points from a historic scholarly presentation their tone and presentation would be completely different.

For those of us who aren't Biblical followers and therefore not offended we just say,,, yeah, Zeitgeist could have been presented better, handled differently, described differently, addressed differently; but they did what they did there are a lot of accurate messages in it; all within such a short video.

I still haven't seen poor ole Kallisti address the comparison accuracies; only pointing out flaws.
That's very telling.
It's a cosmic joke at this point heh?

babel event

THE NAMSHUB OF ENKI

In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,

Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,

Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,

The land Martu, resting in security,

The whole universe, the people well cared for,

To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.


Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,

Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,

The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,

The leader of the gods,

The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,

Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,

Into the speech of man that had been one.

-------

EA (Ayah... Hayah, see root of word of Jehovah)
who is Enki, Confused the languages at the Tower of Bab-el.
which is really the Gate of God. Now how do you suppose the Gate of God, could confuse
language?

Anybody?

Anyway, you can fill in lots of gaps in data by reading the akkadian and sumerian texts, and then go back to the original hebrew of the bible. Bingo.

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by zimishey

 

The purpose of this thread is to expose Zeitgeist as BS, not prove that Christianity is true.

you have forgotten this is a place where people Analise the whole Picture This is ATS some people do search for Answers and were talking about the first part where the OP is Focused on ! you know the Horus Jesus Parallel Winter solstice , Pagan Holiday's Dec 21 to 26
Sun Gods and the mothers of Jesus and Horus The Connection it depends where you go with it !

Originally posted by undo
kallisti,

notice that people who support astro-theology have two approaches to the data: 1) they tend to ignore sumer completely. this is because sumer proves the texts are not isolated phenomenon, and many questions can be answered by them, and 2) the bible is a copy of other beliefs, even though it's obvious these connections are evidence of common frame of reference, modified by cultural norm and language variation.

you can thank Bab-el for that.

edit on 19-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

With all due respect undo, you are only demonstrating your own ignorance on this subject. What you said is demonstrably false.

Astrotheology of the Ancients
stellarhousepublishing.com...

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
www.stellarhousepublishing.com...

Jesus as the Sun throughout History
stellarhousepublishing.com...

Originally posted by zimishey

Originally posted by shagreen heart
25 pages and we are still arguing fantasy vs. fantasy (again, NOT facts). divide and conquer indeed.

all this thread accomplished was that myopic religious fanatics would rather behead one another's character (and i'm sure literally) than see the forest for the trees. getting the religious myths correct do not matter. please try to realize this and dismantle all the distractions you're compounding on yourselves and eachother.

However, it has to be said that when myth becomes divisive and/or historical is when it becomes propaganda. It loses the real meaning of myth which is to enlighten the eternal being which is always here.

I liked this line. You call it eternal being, but regardless of word/label prefrences I like the sentiment of your analysis.
And I must say that this thread is helping me parce the myths from a different perspective.
To view those who see the myths as real; and are threatened by the possiblity of where those revelations might lead (as in your santa clause analogy). I am using this thread to separate my myths of planet earth and my role in it in a very different way but drawing analogies from these themes which I'm very familiar with and placing them in other contexts of thought that have more pertinence to my personal evolution.
Thanks for the time you've both taken -- all have taken -- to help assist me in this on my own journey through the multi-layered fantasy.

reply to post by GoldenKnight


well, i just showed that the Fall Narrative of the bible is related to Genetic manipulation of DNA. How is this related to the Sun? I suppose it could be argued that the sun can alter DNA via mutation, but that would argue how people 4000 years ago knew anything about the sun mutating DNA? either way you look at it, i just showed you how this is all relevant to science, in fact, genetic science. Picking only the metaphors used to disguise the real knowledge these ancient priests had, is just one of my contentions with Zeitgeist. It's lazy (not the people, just the theory).

kallisti i'll just ask a simple question:

do you think that first segment of the first zeitgeist movie (which is something you need to be specific about because you keep generalizing all of the zeitgeist movies as bs which is not what we are talking about here and you should really stop that poison the well junk) meant to:

a) get the facts about religious myths wrong?

or

b) illustrate how the sun should be our only "belief" and "religion" because it is real and calculable and benefits us immensely by understanding it's behavior, and even if we don't understand it it is the veritable source of all life on this planet, whereas all the other myths about religions divide us from peace and prosperity?

please choose one and tell us (in your own words, lol) why you think a), or b), is what the first segment of the first zeitgeist movie intended.

Originally posted by undo
well i have a feasible connect the dots for the theory that osiris is christ, although it seems to have a few really glaring drawbacks, but it all starts in ancient sumer.

according to the sumerian and akkadian texts, Enki (also known as Ea), was the creator of humankind. He did this via "birth goddesses", which i theorize, based on my atum theory from genesis, was a genetic modification project in which the Eve was given the ability to procreate. The birth goddesses were references to the pleaides, a completely different topic, although intimately connected to several other related events. Remember, alot of the sensitive data is couched in metaphors.

In other words, Enki didn't create humans, he modified existing humans to be procreative, because the original humans were clones of the "gods" and couldn't procreate. This is what judaism and christendom refer to as the Fall Narrative. This effectively put our destiny in our own hands, a thing which angered Enlil (his father) a great deal, as we had originally been created as a race of cloned slaves. Enlil is the primary figure in the story of Jehovah being angry, not only about the Fall narrative but the flood events as well.

It's all there. If you study and think of it as a huge story, spanning over 7000 years, (not saying earth is only 7000 years old, that whole thing is a different story). Just remember, to the ancient people, earth was dirt. No matter where the dirt was, it was earth.

I appreciate your admission that it has some drawbacks.
Also, I appreciate your mention that myths have changed and in this way it is quite difficult to follow the thread of the many definitions. This is very key and it appears to be the snag which Kallisti gets caught up on and which GoldenKnight cannot seem to get through no matter how many pages is posted. (My observtion in this case is that too much christian investment clearly can cloud ones ability to be rationally objective.)
I may be able to see some correlation between your theory and the National Geographic theory In Search of the Ultimate Survivor. You may have watched that documentary?

I'd be interested in watching a video documentary of your theory. If you have spare time it may be a fun undertaking since you appear to have a real interest in this hobby.

reply to post by rebeldog

The OP sounds like a christian who got their ego hurt by knowledge.(kinda like how the original sin of adam/eve was searching for knowledge) only idiots believe that stuff anyway. must hurt to find out the bible is not the end all of life or death.. whats wrong OP mad you were lied to by some backwoods hick preacher? and to embarassed to let the message of zeitgesit sink in.. I bet you hate Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and Christopher Hitchens too.. and you probably hate Religulous also..

HAhahahahaha ....I remember watching the first Zeitgeist and within 2 hours had just about every one of their points refuted when it came to their attacks on Christianity and trying to make into some clone.

Being a Christian Mystic myself ...I see tons of attacks on Jesus but none of them ever hold any weight ....usually they are simply assumptions made up within the confine of personal bias bubbles.

how can god speak things into existence? i dunno, ask captain picard?


how can a human being be created from a rib? i dunno, ask geneticists?


how can people fly threw the sky? i dunno, ask the wright brothers?


? ?

why's all this gotta resolve back down to one thing and only one thing? i dunno, ask people who have thousands of years of ancient texts at their finger tips but insist it's nothing but this:

Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by zimishey

 

The purpose of this thread is to expose Zeitgeist as BS, not prove that Christianity is true.

Would it prove that Christianity is true?
or would it prove that the bible is a myth based on talking snakes and other such phenomenon and comparisons.

Again, you go off topic and it's okay, but when others do it you're quick to point it out.
What are you afraid of?
What is the real root of your fear?
....color me curious.

reply to post by gypsy heart


it's not a talking snake. it's a nachash.
remember, original hebrew.
www.blueletterbible.org...

but here's a real interesting thing. a seraph
8314 saraph saw-rawf' from 8313; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color):--fiery (serpent), seraph.
www.eliyah.com...

that's singular, for seraphim. and seraphim were angels.
follow the dots. remember, METAPHORS to hide the real knowledge. if you don't want to know, you'll never figure it out. if you do want to know, it'll start revealing itself. it's all about you.

reply to post by kallisti36

My "ego" was not hurt in the least by the lies of Zeitgeist. I'm just tired of refuting the blatant stupidity of the people who support the movie. I am not hurt in the least by your ad hominem attacks and terrible grammar.

Why do you feel the need to refute what you consider blatant stupidity? This is an honest question because I do not understand what drives you to do so. I'm trying to look at the issue from your point of view but I have not been successful.

Originally posted by inforeal
Much of Zeitgeist1 if I am not mistaking is based on the work of Acharya S

www.truthbeknown.com...

I have heard this, but honestly I have NEVER even heard of this Acharya S person....yet I was already familiar with nearly every single thing said in the religious section of Zeitgeist. I learned all from reading scholars! None of which could be even slightly considered 'conspiracy' buffs. The fact about the Christian religion have been known for centuries. I admit I differ slightly on some of the interpretations of Zeitgeist, however the raw facts (at least within the religious section) are simply true. The similarities between Christ's Gospel and countless other deities that predated him are simply there, for anyone to check. I encourage anyone to go to their local Library and look it up. This "Zeitgeist Debunked" video is just poor logic mixed with poor research. Now where I differ slightly with Zeitgeist is in the Idea of whether Christ was ever a real person. I think its completely possible, and perhaps even probable that he was. the Myth elements surrounding his life were simply added later.

I really enjoy the forcefulness of your headline here! Even more so after I read the content, hahaha. Really, you seem to be missing the BIG PICTURE behind the Zeitgeist films. It is people like you that really bring my own sanity into perspective, because sifting through all the fear mongering, disinfo, etc; it does get tough some times to keep the clarity!

Originally posted by undo
kallisti,

notice that people who support astro-theology have two approaches to the data: 1) they tend to ignore sumer completely. this is because sumer proves the texts are not isolated phenomenon, and many questions can be answered by them, and 2) the bible is a copy of other beliefs, even though it's obvious these connections are evidence of common frame of reference, modified by cultural norm and language variation.

you can thank Bab-el for that.

edit on 19-2-2011 by undo because: (no reason given)

You see, this I can agree with. Make all of the claims you want about Judaism being a rip off of Sumerian legends because there are actual concrete parallels! You can also say that Abrahamic monotheism came from Akhenatan, because the Jews were in Egypt!

Zeitgeist lies and makes false connections and uses moronic fringe "scholars" as sources. I will admit parallels where there are parallels, but there are no parallels in Krishna, Horus, Dionysus, and Mithra. Nor are Christianity or Judaism solar worshiping religions.

Originally posted by shagreen heart
kallisti i'll just ask a simple question:

do you think that first segment of the first zeitgeist movie (which is something you need to be specific about because you keep generalizing all of the zeitgeist movies as bs which is not what we are talking about here and you should really stop that poison the well junk) meant to:

a) get the facts about religious myths wrong?

or

b) illustrate how the sun should be our only "belief" and "religion" because it is real and calculable and benefits us immensely by understanding it's behavior, and even if we don't understand it it is the veritable source of all life on this planet, whereas all the other myths about religions divide us from peace and prosperity?

please choose one and tell us (in your own words, lol) why you think a), or b), is what the first segment of the first zeitgeist movie intended.

To be perfectly honest, I don't care what Zeitgeist intended. Zeitgeist's message is stupid and they set it up with BS claims. I only care about ending the BS claims that Zeitgeist fans spew.

If you don't think the "bad information" was a big deal and that I "missed the point", then leave the thread. That's not the subject of the thread and I don't care about Zeitgeist's philosophy.

reply to post by GoldenKnight


And I repeat: I do not want Acharya S's BS apologies for her inadequacies as a scholar. I do not want links to Zeitgeist forums, Stellar House Publishing, or Acharya S fanboy sites. None of these sites are unbiased or credible. I bet you're sick of Keith Truth too. He may do a good job of tearing Zeitgeist a new one, but he is far from neutral, being a Christian offended by such claims. So here is a neutral review from the Atheist group Rational Response Squad who deny the historicity of Ya'hshuah without relying on fabrications: www.rationalresponders.com...