Zeitgeist Totally Refuted! (Do not post Zeitgeist BS ever again)

Originally posted by rebeldog
reply to post by madscientistintraining

 

The OP sounds like a christian who got their ego hurt by knowledge.(kinda like how the original sin of adam/eve was searching for knowledge) only idiots believe that stuff anyway. must hurt to find out the bible is not the end all of life or death..

whats wrong OP mad you were lied to by some backwoods hick preacher? and to embarassed to let the message of zeitgesit sink in..

I bet you hate Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and Christopher Hitchens too.. and you probably hate Religulous also..

I'm perfectly fine with people who disagree with me. However, Zeitgeist is intellectually dishonest and it's fans don't do any research. I don't care about Bill Hicks and I like George Carlin when he's not going off on Religion. You are right about Hitchens, I really don't like him. Not because he's an atheist but because he is a militant anti-theist and well... an ass.

My "ego" was not hurt in the least by the lies of Zeitgeist. I'm just tired of refuting the blatant stupidity of the people who support the movie. I am not hurt in the least by your ad hominem attacks and terrible grammar.

Good day sir

Ok, to clarify, I made a mistake in saying Zeitgeist was totally refuted. The issues I take are with the first and third part. The second part isn't so bad, but when you think about it, it doesn't hold any more water than your typical ATS conspiracy thread.

Second point I want to make: I don't care if you don't believe in Ya'hshuah or hate my religion. That's fine, but attack it in an intellectually honest way instead of spewing Zeitgeist BS.

This thread is not about the historicity of Ya'hshuah. It is about Zeitgeist claims that the Messiah figure was a stolen concept from various religions and religious figures. Stick to Zeitgeist claims please.

The messiah figure WAS stolen from past tales.. have you even looked into your own theistic beliefs or do you just follow the scripture that's in front of you?

Zeitgeist, though it does (as another member said) take on some creative journalism, points out very blatant similarities between many theistic belief systems. It organizes it in a way that even the stupidest citizen of the global community can understand what they are trying to get across, not EVERYone is as astute an observer as you are
There are many great points made and there are many again that could be argued for hours, but the point is that they presented a discussion in a limited amount of time and made it easy to understand for the masses who need to hear it, and thats that, plain and simple. we could sit here for hours and type till our fingers bleed about the minor details and misconceptions that you, i, or the creators of the video have, but facts are facts and myths are myths, so before you go making absolute claims (which i realize you have taken back) you should do some research and use that noggin on top of your shoulders once in a while instead of blindly following what is to someone else a Heathen religion.

I am not religious and i dont intend to offend your beliefs, but if you are going to make an argument in a place like this about a thing like this, then i suggest you come prepared, and MAYBE just MAYBE like again another member mentioned, if you DONT want to hear or talk about it, then.. keep it to yourself? dont click on them if it upsets you? just like following a religion or not, we all have a choice, sometimes the best choice is to NOT do something.

if you are as smart as you make yourself sound then you'll probably just walk away from this thread now and let the mods deal with it.

regards..

Originally posted by EmpathicBandit
The messiah figure WAS stolen from past tales.. have you even looked into your own theistic beliefs or do you just follow the scripture that's in front of you?

Could you please provide a few sources on that? From my understanding the word messiah is from a Hebrew word that has its origins in Judaism. It's a Hebrew word for a religious redeemer of Judaism/Islam who has been anointed by oil or by God to redeem the religion.

I'm not sure why another religion that wasn't Judaism would have a oil anointed redeemer of Judaism?? Why would another religion need a messiah? Why would another religion need someone to save Judaism? Wouldn't they be redeeming their own religion?

Could you please go into detail about how the concept was developed from past tales and also what exactly do you mean by messiah figure? When you say messiah figure, what exactly does that mean to you? Could you please define that in context and then talk about how that relates to Judaism and other religions.

Then we come to the most important part. Could you show how that relates to if Jesus existed or not? Which is the main point of Zeitgeist on religion. Zeitgeist talks about NWO stuff and religious stuff.

The major claim that Zeitgeist makes about religion can be summed as Jesus didn't exist or that he was actually the Sun and Christians are Sun worshipers. I think that's the main focus of this thread right now. The NWO stuff maybe we can do another day.

If you watch the videos the OP posted you'll see the makers of Zeitgeist seem to have no evidence or sources to back up their claims. In fact, it seems the religious claims in Zeitgeist are apparently completely made up. When the sources they give are checked, they don't pan out. So please if you have sources that do pan out, people would like to see those sources. Please don't just say, you don't have time. Certainty the issue is important enough for you to spend a wee bit of time on.

Also, if you watch the videos the OP posted you'll also see that in books they've authored the same people that either made Zeitgeist or supporters of Zeitgeist go on to say, that not only was Jesus actually the Sun in the sky, but that Jesus was also a Freemason.

Now please don't misunderstand. They make two claims. They say that Christianity was invented by Freemasons, and also make the second claim that Jesus himself was also a Freemason.

So, I would be very interested in any sources you have that would show that to be true? Do you have any sources that prove that both A. Jesus didn't exist and is actually the Sun in the sky, and B. That the Sun in the sky is also a Freemason?

I'd be interested to know that the major star of our solar system is also a Freemason! It's something I haven't considered before.

Those are the claims made by the videos of the OP of this thread. So you may care to watch them all to see what the Zeitgeist people are really claiming.

Originally posted by EmpathicBandit
The messiah figure WAS stolen from past tales.. have you even looked into your own theistic beliefs or do you just follow the scripture that's in front of you?

Yes, I have actually. I was actually an agnostic before I began studying Theology. Provide a concrete parallel between Ya'hshuah and some other deity. I don't want tenable similarities, give me definitive evidence of plagarism.

Zeitgeist, though it does (as another member said) take on some creative journalism, points out very blatant similarities between many theistic belief systems. It organizes it in a way that even the stupidest citizen of the global community can understand what they are trying to get across, not EVERYone is as astute an observer as you are

It doesn't take an "astute observer" to see that Zeitgeist is wrong. As I said, very shallow research will provide you with enough evidence to refute Zeitgeist, Acharya S, Freke, and Gandi. In the provided video, the researcher does deep research to prove that they are all wrong. He goes to archaeologists and professors (many of whom are atheists) and refutes every last claim Zeitgeist made of Ya'hshuah. He also shows that the views that Zeitgeist is propagating are from fringe psuedo-archaeologists who don't provide sources and use forgeries for "evidence" (Freke and Gandi) and aren't taken seriously in the historical, archaeological, or theological communities (even among skeptics!).

There are many great points made and there are many again that could be argued for hours, but the point is that they presented a discussion in a limited amount of time and made it easy to understand for the masses who need to hear it, and thats that, plain and simple.

If I made a video in which I played two truths and a lie (or two lies and a conspiracy that may be true in the case of Zeitgeist) for a couple hours and then presented it as the "truth" of the "spirit of the age", would you recommend it to others? It takes hours to pick apart the truth from the lies in Zeitgeist as you noted:

we could sit here for hours and type till our fingers bleed about the minor details and misconceptions that you, i, or the creators of the video have, but facts are facts and myths are myths,

The truths in the movie might be very profound and important (I'm being generous here), but the lies, especially in the case of Zeitgeist could be very malevolent when taken to heart. Ya'hshuah made the fantastic claim of being "the way, the truth, and the life", the implications of which are wonderful and dire. We have to decide if these claims are true or false, because a lot is riding on that statement. So, we have to study and soul-search to discover if that is true or not. We cannot be frivolous in our interpretations, we can't use blatantly dishonest sources. Zeitgeist lies like no other, and therefor should not be taken seriously. Go to the Scriptures, go to history, go to Dawkins, go to Monks, go to the Dalai Llama, but at least go to someone reputable.

so before you go making absolute claims (which i realize you have taken back) you should do some research and use that noggin on top of your shoulders once in a while instead of blindly following what is to someone else a Heathen religion.

I have done my research and I chose Christianity. I have heard the other side and I am comfortable where I am. The atheists may be right, but they can't prove themselves anymore than I can. Zeitgeist on the other hand is not ambiguous, it's claims are false and it doesn't take much research to see that (which is why I am so frustrated with Zeitgeist posters, because they haven't researched).

I am not religious and i dont intend to offend your beliefs, but if you are going to make an argument in a place like this about a thing like this, then i suggest you come prepared, and MAYBE just MAYBE like again another member mentioned, if you DONT want to hear or talk about it, then.. keep it to yourself? dont click on them if it upsets you? just like following a religion or not, we all have a choice, sometimes the best choice is to NOT do something.

As I said, I will abide an intelligent, non-belligerent atheist in debate, but being a Christian, I will not abide transparent falsehoods about my Messiah.

reply to post by kallisti36

If I could give ya 100k stars and flags I would.
Listening to the series now.
Really appreciate your post.
Grats and thanks again.

Originally posted by rebeldog
The OP sounds like a christian who got their ego hurt by knowledge.(kinda like how the original sin of adam/eve was searching for knowledge) only idiots believe that stuff anyway. must hurt to find out the bible is not the end all of life or death..
whats wrong OP mad you were lied to by some backwoods hick preacher? and to embarassed to let the message of zeitgesit sink in..
I bet you hate Bill Hicks, George Carlin, and Christopher Hitchens too.. and you probably hate Religulous also..

I wouldn't mention this if the poster wasn't calling some Christians idiots, insulting the OP's supposed lack of knowledge and making generalizations about 'backwoods preachers', but it seems incredibly hypocritical to be insulting the erudition and sophistication of thought in others when you can't string together a sentence or two without proper use of parenthesis, capitalization or commas.

I hope you have a great view from that glass house.

Eric

Very shallow research would also conclude that everything in the Bible is also made up.

What's your point. That one big made up story cant be used to fight another. Sounds like a fair fight to me.

instead of posting videos wouldent it be better for the OP to write what the debunked facts are
with references to scholar material and facts ,

posting a video without real references wont get you through university or any other school,

reply to post by zerbot565

instead of posting videos wouldent it be better for the OP to write what the debunked facts are
with references to scholar material and facts ,

LOL Why should the OP write out what you can watch on the video? Isn't a video enough spoon feeding for you already?

And honestly, this had nothing to do with being a Christian, or not. It has to do with facts. Which Zeitgeist has very little of. In fact most of the real fascts you find in Zeitgeist is when they run the credits.

This video series is so stuffed with FACT(s), not fiction, and not just 'spoken' fact, but fact that can be backed up with references (unlike Zeitgeist) - it's refreshing to get to the truth.

Applause to the OP.

Originally posted by zerbot565
instead of posting videos wouldent it be better for the OP to write what the debunked facts are
with references to scholar material and facts ,

posting a video without real references wont get you through university or any other school,

So what you're saying is the Zeitgeist video is basically invalid because it's in video form and any facts in video form don't count? That we shouldn't take the Zeitgeist video seriously? Are you saying we should have taken the Zeitgeist material more seriously if they had written it out and not made a video?

Are you saying that the people that do believe the claims made by the orig Zeitgeist flim that the OP is debunking are in error because they shouldn't believe any claims made by a video?

reply to post by tinfoilman


while its easy to just say , its like this and post a video

the OP could have posted a written summary of the proposed debunked facts with references to
scholar material , not wiki , you know books with the facts presented , it isnt that hard ,

reply to post by silo13


again

if it can be backed up where are the references to scholar material (not wiki)

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Very shallow research would also conclude that everything in the Bible is also made up.

What's your point. That one big made up story cant be used to fight another. Sounds like a fair fight to me.

At least you are doing research (I think). However, as I have stated multiple times, this thread is about Zeitgeist. If you have Zeitgeist claims you want to back up or refute, present them. Otherwise, let's stay on topic.

Originally posted by zerbot565
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

while its easy to just say , its like this and post a video

the OP could have posted a written summary of the proposed debunked facts with references to
scholar material , not wiki , you know books with the facts presented , it isnt that hard ,

Oh I wasn't talking about the OP's videos. I was talking about the original Zeitgeist video itself. That's what I thought you were talking about. The orig video that OP is debunking. I thought you were saying THAT video was invalid because it was in video form.

In my opinion since Zeitgeist makes it claims in video form, it's okay to debunk them in video form, but if I not, I suppose one could watch the OP's videos again and copy down all the sources it cites.

Originally posted by zerbot565
instead of posting videos wouldent it be better for the OP to write what the debunked facts are
with references to scholar material and facts ,

posting a video without real references wont get you through university or any other school,

I understand what you're getting at. This is the laziest thread I have ever put together. The thing is that refuting all of Zeitgeist's false claims would take forever and I've had to refute dozens of claims already. Besides, I couldn't possibly do a better job than this guy, so why not give everyone the best?
Addendum: Anyways, videos are much more entertaining than a thesis paper... please don't make me refute anymore Zeitgeist stuff

reply to post by tinfoilman


i skipped through the first video,

all i saw was subjective thinking and words without scholar references ,
line, paragraph , page , book , author

references ,

Originally posted by zerbot565
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

i skipped through the first video,

all i saw was subjective thinking and words without scholar references ,
line, paragraph , page , book , author

references ,

Man, you really don't get it do you. I'm talking about the orig Zeitgeist video. Not OP's video! Is that what you're saying is invalid or are you saying the orig Zeitgeist video is valid while OP's video is not?

the title of this thread was totally refuted and i think you shouldn't post such misleading bs ever again.

how about that?

and your ego was very much hurt, you had to be completely emotionally compromised to not realize that a solar religion is based off of natural observable occurences, therefore can be backed up, and is therefore real, and is therefore something we can scientifically observe, and count on, like the ancients have, whereas these other religions you bring up are all just embellished children's stories off the true solar religion. the sun is our god, our life, our everything, not a million people that never existed that fanatics like you incestually argue over.

are there other things at work besides the sun in this universe? maybe, but we don't know, so we can't say if anyone is right or wrong about it. the point of the first segment in zeitgeist was for us to get back to our roots, and the unifying thing we should all believe in and revel in, is the sun and life itself, there is no need for all this bickering between eachother from stories we made up about the sun. we divide our love from eachother based on lies we made up (hence this thread and it's harsh tone, and don't you dare defend yourself by calling other's logical fallacies out when you yourself are attacking someone's character to make your stories look good), rather than embrace life as one with love.

the "facts" zeitgeist got wrong are so irrelevant and to get caught up in them is the most short sighted and certainly characteristic of an ego rebound. the reality is, they aren't facts, they don't matter.

facts are the sun moving in the sky and what this means for us and our livelihood, not arguing and killing eachother over the stories a divided mankind fabricated ABOUT the sun.

reply to post by shagreen heart


Errrr... no. The Jews did not worship the sun. Worshiping the sun was likely to get you stoned in ancient Israel and was a Babylonian practice. Baal or Bel or the Biblical Nimrod was deified in the sun and observant Jews would never worship the sun. Sun worship is actually not as common in the Middle East as it was in other parts of the world, because to those in the Desert, the sun was a hot, terrible, oppressive thing. This is why worship of the Moon God, Sin (Nimrod's son), became more prevalent in Babylon after Nimrod died. The Jews are not a sun worshiping religion, nor are they a zodiac based religion (the twelve tribes were established before the Zodiac). If you wanted to say they worshiped a celestial body, you could make a (tenable) case for moon worship, because they use a lunar calendar.

Christians, even those under the pagan influences of Rome (also, not sun worshipers) did not worship the sun. Halos are an example of trans religious symbolism, but are never representative of the sun, but of holiness, enlightenment, and the optical phenomenon of "Glory" en.wikipedia.org...(optical_phenomenon). Halos were adopted into Christian iconography to appeal to former pagans who would have thought the depictions of religious figures were unimpressive if not given a halo. If you want to be asinine, you can point out the phonetic similarities between Son of God and Sun of God, but if that were evidence of solar worship then it didn't start up until the invention of modern English, because son and sun do not sound remotely similar in Greek or Hebrew.