New York WeAreChange confronts Dick Cheney

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Oh I am dying to see your "proof" that there are no terrorists. Cannot wait.....

I'll go you one better. I'll be polite and turn the floor over to you!

Just show me an iota of proof that there are terrorists and I'll show YOU, how they are linked back............ to the government! (as I butter up my popcorn)

reply to post by Human_Alien


No, you made the claim, it is up to YOU to provide the evidence. Although I will fully expect you to dodge.

reply to post by vipertech0596


Then you know what?

Look around!!!!
Nothing's happen. No terrorists.


Case closed.

Thanks for joining the WeAreChange 9-11 TruthMovement.


It's people like you who keep giving permission for this tyrannize globalized government to go on!

Keep on keeping on brother! You're doing a FINE job at bringing this country/world together. In fact, I don't know when I've ever felt more united !!! (end sarcasm)

Cheney is nothing but an evil $%%A@$%$@%%$%%@$%$%A@$#%$%$%@%$%@$%$%@#$%$%A@$%%#@#$$@$@%#%@%%^^##^^$^$^#%^@#^^#@%@%%#%#%##%#%$%$@%%$%$@%$%$#%%#


Enough said.

reply to post by Human_Alien


As I figured. Another empty statement. Terrorists dont exist. They never hijacked airliners and blew them up in the desert in the 70s, they never hosed down tourists in the Rome and Vienna airports, they never kidnapped and murdered politicians throughout Europe in the 60s/70s, Abu Nidal wasnt a terrorist...neither was Abbu Abbas, nor Ramzi Yousef......Baader Meinhof...didnt exist...Red Army Faction...nope......

Originally posted by vipertech0596
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

As I figured. Another empty statement. Terrorists dont exist. They never hijacked airliners and blew them up in the desert in the 70s, they never hosed down tourists in the Rome and Vienna airports, they never kidnapped and murdered politicians throughout Europe in the 60s/70s, Abu Nidal wasnt a terrorist...neither was Abbu Abbas, nor Ramzi Yousef......Baader Meinhof...didnt exist...Red Army Faction...nope......

You're giving me a story (much like the one from September 11th). But now, kindly provide the proof!

And maybe I'll show you (when I have the energy because honestly, I've done this for 10 year now) how 19 Arabs weren't involved!

This thread is about Cheney being a dickhead. That's really what this is about.

Perhaps you should start your own thread on how terrorists really exist and how these wars are not only warranted but.... justified (raise American flag)

reply to post by Human_Alien


Um, no, you are the one that made the assinine statement that terrorists dont exist. Still waiting on your evidence that terrorists are figments of our imaginations.

reply to post by vipertech0596


I was just reading your guys' convo, and I think what Human Alien is trying to say is that the terrorists that our government portrays as the culprits of these crimes, don't exist. Of course there are terrorists. Hell, look at our government

However, the figments of imagination come into play with the supposed 19 Arab hijackers on 9/11

THAT is a load of BS

reply to post by vipertech0596
[mo
In this day and age, it would not have been THAT hard to organize a war effort accross this country. One of our government's biggest mistakes was enriching a single corporation for a task that they couldnt possibly do well, or do honestly. By diversifying this into several contracts, it would have been easier to know who was screwing us and how exactly we were being screwed. A corporation is not part of THE PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE would have taken some pride in supplying and taking care of our troops.
I ask you to refer to the war effort during WWII, and see how the women went to work and learned to run the machines, and still took care of their children. The result was that everyone knew that we were at war, and everyone conserved. People who lost their loved ones were surrounded by and cared for by local communities and national organizations alike. Now there are people who protest at soldiers' funerals.
The W/Cheney administration took advantage of a distracted populace. Distracted by fat pocketbooks, internet etc. Instead of informing and envolving the PEOPLE in the war effort they gave the treasury to Haliburton. AND IT'S STILL NOT OVER. WE'RE STILL PAYING THEM FOR EVERYTHING NEEDED IN THESE WARS! We all look for multiple sources when we're researching things. It's smart to have back up plans and alternate providers of the services and goods we use everyday. We do this so that we know we're not getting ripped off. Our gov't should have used this same common sense when they decided to destroy and occupy a country on another continent!
I don't know if 911 happened the way they say it did, but because of their deceitful, backhanded, iron fisted manner of governing, I will never trust what a politician says for the rest of my life (I thought I found something good in Ron Paul, but I've been presented with new info-still researching).

Originally posted by Human_Alien

.....that he hasn't done?????

Did he not tell NORAD to stand down? (and that's only what's been made public. Lord knows what else he might have said or directed others to do).

C'mon man. We were all duped on 9-11. That is a no-brainer.

And as we STILLl feel the effects from that day (I can't get on an airplane without being molested etc....) Bush and binLaden are down in Paraguay sipping umbrella drinks and laughing.

And if binLaden was really wanted, he would've been caught as quickly as Charles Manson was who by the way, like bin Laden never actually killed anyone too!

So out of sight, out of mind. Right? In the meanwhile, innocent people (women and children too) are getting killed for something they never did! But little do they know it's all about drugs and oil.

So let's all raise our flags a little higher and stand a little taller all for the sake of this...American pride!

You've picked me up largely wrong. I agree that cheney is a scumbag of the first order, and a profiteer with blood on his hands.

I don't find any of the evidence presented that he conspired in 9/11 at all compelling. And I think it's a sideshow that people indulge in to prevent themselves from doing anything about the real problems that beset your country. It's American pride, and your unique relationship with notions of personal freedom and enrichment which allowed people like Cheney to get where they did.

That's why I find so many Truthers' accusation of scpetics as being flag waving idiot patriots so wrong headed. I mean, I'm not even american! And I've noticed that many in the Truth Movement then go on to talk approvingly about a type of hyper-liberal hyper-nationalistic politics which is an exact blueprint for more of what you've already got.

To prevent criminals like Cheney rising to the top you have to examine the US's sociopolitical contract with unfettered capitalism, its moral stance towards wealth creation, and try to translate all that from pure theory into a political system that actually operates effectively.

But that stuff is boring. It's more fun to shout about bombs and missiles at the Pentacon.

reply to post by Human_Alien


Do you seriously believe that there's no such thing as Islamic or Arab nationalist terrorism? That the US goverment was or is behind Hezbollah, the Al-Aqsa martyrs brigade, Black September, Islamic Jihad, Jammat, the GIA, Abu Sayyaf and Harkat al Mujahideen among the dozens of others?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Thats exactly what he believes. The United States is behind it all. Keep after him and I am sure that he will repeat the tired, old, lie that the CIA created Al Qaeda. People like him will never begin to grasp the reality of that part of the world.

reply to post by hazel622


Step out of fantasyland and into reality. We have one group of morons (well two if you count Code Pink I guess) that like to protest at funerals. I am not sure about Indiana, but where I live, we DO step forward to take care of our neighbors who have lost loved ones and we DO have quite a few people who love to do nothing but send packages overseas to us when we deploy.

And your whine about Halliburton still rings hollow with me. The reason why Halliburton has stepped up and made so much money was that people like you (not necessarily you) but people like you scream and whine about the military budget till it gets a meat cleaver taken to it. Funny you mention World War II......back in WWII it was the MILITARY that took care of feeding, housing, purifying water, and doing the laundry for itself. It was the whiners that ensured the military lost that capability through budget cuts.

Originally posted by apodictic
reply to post by vipertech0596

 

I was just reading your guys' convo, and I think what Human Alien is trying to say is that the terrorists that our government portrays as the culprits of these crimes, don't exist. Of course there are terrorists. Hell, look at our government

However, the figments of imagination come into play with the supposed 19 Arab hijackers on 9/11

THAT is a load of BS

Despite all evidence to the contrary you actually believe that. The big, bad CIA that missed out on the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the reunification of Germany......somehow managed to fake enough stuff to convince German, Czech, Jordanian, Israeli and British Intelligence that the hijackers were a threat.

Which is it? The CIA is the all-powerful, all knowing, all evil entity as portrayed in Hollywood? Or the CIA is the entity that couldnt see the collapse of the Soviet Union?

The video combined with the following text make for a pretty substantial argument against 9/11 truth deniers...

The 9/11 Stand Down in 2 Minutes...

NORAD, responsible for intercepting errant aircraft over the U.S., has a standard operating procedure for scrambling planes for interception which takes less than 15 minutes

They did this successfully (on time) 129 times in 2000 and and abcnews.go.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">67 times between September 2000 and June 2001.

Yet, on September 11th, they failed to do their job 4 times in a single day:

* NORAD, once notified of the off-course aircraft, failed to scramble jets from the nearest bases
* Once airborne, interceptors failed to reach their targets because they flew at small fractions of their top speeds
* Fighters that were airborne and within interception range of the deviating aircraft were not redeployed to pursue them

You might think that the military couldn't find the hijacked planes because the hijackers turned off the transponders. However, a former air traffic controller, who knows the flight corridor which the two planes which hit the Twin Towers flew "like the back of my hand" and who handled two actual hijackings says that planes can be tracked on radar even when their transponders are turned off (also, listen to this interview).

As a former senior air force colonel said:

"If our government had merely done nothing, and I say that as an old interceptor pilot—I know the drill, I know what it takes, I know how long it takes, I know what the procedures are, I know what they were, and I know what they’ve changed them to—if our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the Twin Towers would still be standing and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. That is treason!"

Norad's stand down on 9/11 was so blatant that Norad has been forced to give 3 entirely different versions of what happened that day, as each previous version has been exposed as false. When someone repeatedly changes his testimony after being caught in lies, how believable is he? The falsity of Norad's explanations were so severe that even the 9/11 Commission considered recommending criminal charges for the making of false statements.

In addition, Dick Cheney monitored flight 77 for many miles as it approached the Pentagon -- one of the most heavily-defended buildings in the world -- and yet ordered that the airplane not be intercepted (confirmed here). Given that Cheney was in charge of all of the war games and coordinated the government's "response" to the attacks on 9/11 -- apparently including Norad (see this Department of State announcement, this CNN article, and this essay) -- Cheney's orders regarding flight 77 seem to be part and parcel of the Norad stand down.

reply to post by alaskan


Pickig one of your links at random I get this

"Early in the attack, when Flight 11 had turned directly south toward New York City, it was obvious that New York City and the World Trade Center, and Washington D.C. would be likely targets."

No, it wasn't. And anybody who says that it was after the fact is a liar.

reply to post by vipertech0596


(trying to contain my whining) Halliburton is the poster child of corrupt businesses, and their abilities to win the government contracts by bidding low (yet the price still climbs). Dick Cheney in the White House was the apex of the relationships between corrupt businesses and corrupt leadership. The reason why I view Cheney as evil: he didnt't even try to conceal his delight in this contracts, waved off questions by the press about his association with Halliburton (he acted like they were being silly for asking and his answer was just "as vice-president i am no longer involved...blah, blah, blah), and the evil just wafts from him (there is no attempt to disguise it). I'm sure W is just as bad as Cheney, but his apparent stupidity seems to shield him a little (I don't despise him near as much). They were like that cartoon Pinky and the Brain, except the scheme worked.

reply to post by pyrodude
Civil servant indeed. The problem with Cheney is that he got rich from it. Cheney is a first rate scumbag, and deserves no accolades for his "service" and he did escape the real service he shouldn't have.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
I'll go you one better. I'll be polite and turn the floor over to you!

Just show me an iota of proof that there are terrorists and I'll show YOU, how they are linked back............ to the government! (as I butter up my popcorn)

"There are no terrorists", my dog's butt!

This is what concerns be about the unrepentent dishonesty of the conspiracy movement. Notice this fellow didn't say, "I will show you how the gov't is really responsible for it." He said, "I will show you how they are linked back to the gov't". He's going under the false position that if there's ANY connection to the gov't, WHATSOEVER, it should be seen as de facto proof the gov't is really responsible for it regardless of whether it actually proves it or not. Case in point:

What WE we say: A Somali teenager pursuing "violent Jihad" contacted an al Qaida operative for support in setting of a car bomb in the middle of a christmas tree lighting ceremony in Oregon. The FBI got wind of it, sent disguised agents pretending to be representatives of the Al Qaida operative, gave him a fake bomb, and waited until he actually rigged the van with the bomb and flipped the switch before arresting him as an actual terrorist.

What HUMAN ALIEN will say: A Somali teenager in Oregon was secretly supplied with a bomb by the FBI, and after the FBI discussed "violent jihad" with him, he tried to use it to blow up a tree lighting ceremony in Oregon.

Both statements are technically correct, and neither statement is an outright lie, but the former simply gives details of what happened while the latter intentionally omits critical details and is worded in such a way as to artificially make it appear like the operation was the FBIs doing, rather than the Somali teenager's. Let's face it, these conspiracy theorists are NOT trying to find out the truth behind the events of the 9/11 attack. They're trying to present their own abject paranoia as fact regardless of what the truth behind the events of 9/11 really is.

Human Alien, I invite you to show how a single thing I'm posting is incorrect.

reply to post by vipertech0596


Where's the evidence that the hijackers were Arab? I'd love to see!

Why don't you educate yourself a little and click my signature.