TA-THREATS: Recent Terrorism Dry Run on Flight 327?

What I find appalling is that the Air Marshalls did absolutely nothing to interfere with these men's actions while in flight, presumably for fear of violating their civil rights. If they had been building a bomb in the lavatory, KABOOM!

It's a sad day when the fear of opressing someone's feelings is stronger than the fear of death. We are a far too oversocialized society.

If they had been building a bomb in the lavatory, KABOOM!

Since when does it take 12 people to build a bomb?

Originally posted by perseus

If they had been building a bomb in the lavatory, KABOOM!

Since when does it take 12 people to build a bomb?

It actually takes 110 terrorists to put the whole bomb together. Piece by piece. They all go to the toilet one by one, put the bomb together - KABOOM!

It actually takes 110 terrorists to put the whole bomb together. Piece by piece. They all go to the toilet one by one, put the bomb together - KABOOM!

Yeah I had started thinking of 'how many blondes does it take to screw in a lightbulb' jokes but i was going to refrain.

[edit on 16-7-2004 by perseus]

If you think about it, it could easily take several men to build a bomb, keeping in mind none of us know what kind of devices they have come up with, it could consist of several parts that alone seem innocent enough or easy to conceal, it could take that many men to smuggle it on board. They were probably not carrying anything this time, maybe just gauging the reaction or hoping to make it easier next time by causing a big civil rights issue so next time people will be more hesitant to engage them. Next time it may not be a big mac in the bag. And the perfect plan pulled off when the last part, the plastic explosive hidden in the orthotic shoe brings the plane down or they threaten to detonate it if people try to intervene with the hijacking. Not that far fetched.

[edit on 16-7-2004 by jd27]

Phoenix, you are absolutely right. Business is a private thing, and airlines should NOT be punished by the govornment for protecting themselves and thier passengers.

Curme, youre really blowing this whole thing out of proportion. You keep brining up the whole race issue. This is one reason I cant stand the left wing, even if its to join forces and battle against the right.

I have flown a few times since 9/11, and everytime I have flown, I have been subjected to random searches and questioning. Some more invasive than others. I am a white female. The fact that I got pulled over several times and searched shows that there is no big evil conspiracy against the poor arabs to harrass them. Bin Laden himself would get waved through security, and Id still get pulled aside and searched.

I believe this story. The points you seem to think are fishy I dont find fishy at all. They seem pretty standard to me. Even now, after reading others posts, my question was how the hell did 14 Arab males get on board the same flight and no one seemed to care.

But we see that they probably did care, and boarded the air Marshals along to investigate, as well as secretly notifying the FBI and FAA to keep an eye on that plane in paticular. Why all the secrecy? Why did they not just prevent these men from flying?

Because we have folks like yourself pitching a huge bitch about detaining them because they are Arab. Thus, because we have to be "PC", we cannot detain them before the flight, we have to let them baord. However, that doesnt mean that preventative measures cannot be taken before hand, and officers on the plane to accompany it, to keep an eye on these guys, as well as to gather intelligence.

The fact that there were suspicions beforehand, shows that these guys werent picked out because they were Arabs. Obviously, something before this flight, maybe even names and such, made a big red flag. Perhaps 14 Arab males buying one way tickets, all of them, would be enough. It certainly would make me think twice.

Are all Arabs suspect? Not necessarily. For instance, if the group of 14 Arabs were say, 3 men, 5 women, and six children, like afamily unit of uncles, grandparents, and kids, that would not raise any flags. Family units or co-ed groups of young and old would not raise a flag, nor would a husband and wife, or an elderly man traveling with a young man.

But 14 men of relative youth traveling together under same passports (Syria, a BIG sponsor of terrorism), yeah. That would set off alot of alarms.

Let us be thankful, curme, that you do not work for any national security offices.

Hey skadi, no fair jabbing at the left. I am a registered dem and I would never advocate political correctness over security, as you can tell by reading my posts. But I also cant help but think we wouldnt be so deep in this mess if it wasnt for the far right. Bush and his manipulation of religion as his platform has rallied the muslim world against us because their beliefs leave them no choice, he himself has used the term crusade which means holy war, and its hard to believe they were not aware of how that would be taken in the muslim world. The terrorists would have little backing if it werent for this. Sometimes it seems like they want another terrorist attack with all the laws against profiling and such, so America will again become angry and back Bush in his crusade. Of course this is just my opinion and others may see it differently, but I think the Bush administration is certainly not helping things. It seems I have gone off course, this is not a political discussion. Sorry everybody.

[edit on 17-7-2004 by jd27]

No biggie.

I understand that not all Democrats are total left wing commies. Just like republicans arent all right wing religous nuts.
You are also correct about George Bush causing many terrorism problems himself. For starters he has done nothing but kiss ass to the Daudis and allow them to get away with murder while we wasted time bombing Iraq. The Saudis should have been looking down the business end of the guided missiles.

But my point is, a very real terrorist threat exists, even despite the fishy 9/11 events and details. There are alot of Arab Muslims out there who have wanted to, and will continue to plan attacks on America.

But some liberals scream when you mention this basic fact. To them, its wrong to suspect ANY Muslim or Arab of wrong doing. Its racist, even despite the fact that every terrorist event we have had, minus OKC, has been perpetrated bby Arab Muslims.

Does it mean all Arab Muslims are bad? of course not. But some liberals simply choose not to see this fact.

Common sense should determine national security, not liberal fairy tales.

This is why Id never join the left in my own battle with the right wing. I am a realist.

Its cool to be independent but our political system belongs to the two parties, and I have just chosen the lesser of two evils. Whatever you do, dont throw your vote away on Nader, unless you want to see Bush re-elected. I also disagree with ultra liberals, you gotta find a middle ground. Like I said we should single out those who are statistically more likely to blow up a plane, but let them know that we are sorry for the inconvenience, maybe even give them a coupon for a free drink or something, and send them on their way. It doesnt have to be an unpleasant racist shakedown. If ultra-liberals have a problem with that, maybe they should start their own airline with no security checks, maybe they can name it terrair.

Do people believe that blacks should be followed around by mall security too?

I'm all for security, especially for suspicious acting people, but I aslo believe we shouldn't go into histrionics every time brown people use the bathroom.

I'm talking about common sense, not paranoia. If brown people scare you, that's your problem, don't ruin other people's lives over it.

curme your concern about profiling is noted, I too think it is wrong to for instance stop a person in a neighborhood because people of a different race live there.

Problem is we can't throw the baby out with the bath water, profiling terrorist risk is effective why even suspected actions of al Qaeda to recruit non arabs says this is true. Why else would al Qaeda want non arabs?

Osama bin Goldstein. We are living in 1984. It's official.

How can you compare mall security following black people to this discussion? Nobody here thinks mall security should follow black people, racism is wrong and nobody is advocating that. Besides, how many black people wish to blow up the mall? Were talking about thorougly checking those who come from countries where the governments, the schools, and the mosques teach them to hate us and our culture. Children believe strongly what adults teach them is truth, so were talking about taking extra steps in security in situations where somebody has the ability to kill large numbers of innocent people quickly. Youre entitled to your opinion in this matter, but it would not be fair that we would have to die for it. But your compassion for people is a good quality. Its ashame they arent taught that in the majority of muslim nations.

Regarding the whole ethnic profiling issue I'd just like to state the fact that Richard Reid (the "shoe bomber") is not Arabic. Richard Reid is half British and half Jamaican.
Who is Richard Reid?

That point may be valid, but nobody said it is a foolproof method, and the flu shot doesnt guard against every strain of flu, but if you want to lessen your chances of getting the flu you get the shot, if you catch the strain that is not protected against, well at least you tried. They may be able to recruit a few people who would fly below the radar, but you cannot argue that the majority of terrorists are not from those regions. It seems so easy for people to sit at their computers and preach against taking measures to the best of our ability to foil another terror attack, but Im sure they would be singing another song if they were on a plane in that situation, I mean did you read the article? Try for a moment to imagine, if this story is true, yourself and your family on that flight. Ill bet as you see 14 arab men congregating in the back and acting strangely, you wont be thinking "it would be wrong of me to assume that just because they are arab and behaving like this, that they mean us any harm." No, Im sure you would be pretty concerned, and Im sure you would not be happy to learn that they were not thoroughly screened to support political correctness. Again, create your own airline and let everybody on board without checking them, but dont expect us not to be as cautious as possible, and allow even one more plane full of people to die because of your views.

Originally posted by ThunderCloud
The airline industry, and the government regulation of it, are all run by idiots. Seriously. Besides these obvious security lapses, how else do you explain the fact that in 50+ years no airline has been able to be profitable without being on government welfare?

Actually JetBlue and Southwest airlines have been profitable without assistance from our government. JetBlue had secrure cockpits put in place as well. Neither of these airlines were involved with 911.

I do agree that airline industry for the most part is in shambles. Management demanding concessions from unions - while at the same time getting bonuses, etc.

This whole article gives me the chills.

www.anniejacobsen.com...

Read her about me page and then her contact page. Now what do you think??

Originally posted by Guidry36
www.anniejacobsen.com...

Read her about me page and then her contact page. Now what do you think??

Heads up, this is not the same Annie Jacobsen. Here's a link to a picture of Annie Jacobsen who wrote the article. Annie Jacobsen

I am not saying that we should ignore "suspicous Arabs" quite the opposite in fact. I believe that a form of limited profiling is necessary to guarantee safety. However we cannot limit ourselves to small minded xenophobia. If you were a terrorist who would you prefer to sneak a bomb or a weapon on to a plane? An arab who's mere presence will raise suspicon and cause alarm amongst his surroundings, or some dumb brainwashed white boy from california. Not every radical muslim is arab and to ignore that is a serious security blind spot.

On a side note if I was on that plane I'd be as nervous as a cat's tail in a room full of rocking chairs, and any one who says they wouldn't be is a liar.

If you were a terrorist who would you prefer to sneak a bomb or a weapon on to a plane? An arab who's mere presence will raise suspicon and cause alarm amongst his surroundings, or some dumb brainwashed white boy from california.

There's a practical consideration at stake here. Can the moslem fanatical terrorists find enough dumb brainwashed white boy from California to take under their wing? Have they had a lifelong schooling in venous ideology that would make them willing to take up such a cause? Certainly John Walker Lindh may have been, but we also know that he went to Yemen and Afghanistan to become schooled in his mythology and trained for action. That would be a little suspicious too, wouldn't you say?