Lack of Skilled Labor — Not Costs — Top Reason for Offshoring

Same excuse they gave for all the work visas. And instead of investing in educating American youth, American companies invested in educating Indian and Chinese youth.

So let me get this straight. We had a shortage or non-skilled labor so we let in upwards of 11 million illegal immigrants, and we had a shortage of skilled labor, so we offshored, outsourced, and basically totally threw the American worker out into the middle of the ocean with no boat. Nice.

There are so many disconnects here, I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just start by saying, wonder who paid for this "study" and what a crock of hot gooey smelly stuff. Agree or disagree?

In a study by the Center for International Business Education and Research’s Offshoring Research Network, Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business and the Conference Board find that most American companies say a shortage of skilled domestic employees is the top reason for moving some operations overseas. This reason displaced cost-cutting measures as the prime motive for offshoring.

"Over half of the participants in our survey say offshoring has resulted in no change in the number of domestic jobs in most functions," said Arie Lewin, Fuqua professor of strategy and international business. "The finding that the U.S. software sector has the highest ratio of offshore to domestic employees — almost 13 offshored jobs per 100 domestic jobs — may be a reflection of a scarcity of domestic science and engineering graduates in the U.S."

www.areadevelopment.com...

I am sorry, but the conspiracy in me screams disinfo. I am in college right now. The classrooms are full. I believe that this article is a diversion tactic to take the spotlight off of the money saving issue.

Just my 2 cents.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I did not mean to sound rude. I enjoy reading your threads. I do not want to sound hasty
But something is not right about this story. I believe that this is the definition of MSM propaganda.

reply to post by liejunkie01

It's some kind of propaganda, all right. In fact, it's just the latest in a series of a lot of propaganda that's been fed to us over the past 30 years or so as they systematically disassembled our entire workforce and middle class. I listed some of the lies. Others are that our kids are dumb, which was a flat out lie and also a hypocritical statement because at the same time they did virtually nothing to correct said mythical issue. That's an old one that provided their reasoning issuing ridiculous numbers of H1B work visas in the 90s—on the government's own visa site, they spelled out (and I'm paraphrasing here but not by much) "the people here in America are too stupid, so we need to import brains from India and China"). Does anything about this "study" sound even remotely real? All we were told was that the hourly rate was cheaper overseas and the tax rate here was unbearable for the companies. But these are the final stages of our destruction, and we haven't had truth for a long time, so why should we expect it now, right?

Interesting, but I smell BS.

I recall recently the head honcho of Intel said that the reason they won't build a chip manufacturing facility here in the US is the costs of regulation, and costs of regulation alone.

He said the difference in price of a plant here in the US versus overseas is one billion dollars. All that additional cost is due not to labor - but to additional regulation costs.

All those nice tree huggers, California liberal funk heads, and Democrats always wanting more regulation - and we wonder why there is so much unemployment.

It appears other businesses have figured out the same thing.

Much better to build plants and facilities overseas. After all, a business is in the business of profit.

Not feel-good BS.

No, it's all down to economics. You can pay an engineer in India $15 K a year vs. $250K a year for one in the USA.

And you don't have to pay them benefits, provide vacation time, sick time, or anything else that the US worker thinks they are entitled to.

And they will work 365 days a year, 12 hours a day if you let them, for the same salary.

This is why jobs are outsourced.

I recently heard a report on a financial news channel to the effect that there were 40K jobs available in Fresno but they couldn't find qualified candidates.

That sounded pretty strange to me until I recalled several stories in the past few months that referred to the fact that most companies today consider a current or recent employment as a necessary qualification.

What that means in practice is that if you've been out of work for more than about six months, you are "unqualified", allowing a company to import workers under the H1B or similar programs.

Originally posted by FarArcher
Interesting, but I smell BS.

I recall recently the head honcho of Intel said that the reason they won't build a chip manufacturing facility here in the US is the costs of regulation, and costs of regulation alone.
He said the difference in price of a plant here in the US versus overseas is one billion dollars. All that additional cost is due not to labor - but to additional regulation costs.
All those nice tree huggers, California liberal funk heads, and Democrats always wanting more regulation - and we wonder why there is so much unemployment.
It appears other businesses have figured out the same thing.
Much better to build plants and facilities overseas. After all, a business is in the business of profit.
Not feel-good BS.

Even partially agreeing with you is hard for me, but I argue the point, not the poster..

Yes there are a lot of crazy regulations that hinder business in western countries along with the personel needed to make sure a company conforms...
But also "Health & Safety" is of little concern overseas and in some places also child labour..
I have run overseas companies and consulted in many more..
Costs are saved by bypassing many safety regulation that cause ongoing issues for workers..

Many of the jobs that are in demand require higher education. Which many American's do not have.. or cannot afford. Vocational school's have hit an all time high, due to the prices, and flexible schedules. We have become "manual workers" as opposed to "intellectual" ones.

We can point the finger in many directions, as this seems to be an all around issue. Those that have the intellect to grow in these positions, do not have the money to go to a school that can help them with the degree, and those that do go to college and excel, cannot find work.

Its a double edged sword, and we will all pay for it in the end, unless we change the rules.. even if only a little.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by FarArcher

Yes, taxes and regulation are two big ones.

Without regulation, we get poisoned, we get cheap products we don't need, we get homes built built of dangerous materials, we to lose out jobs, we get fake food grown on filthy farms, we get child labor, we get slavish work hours on both sides of the world, we get to let our schools and infrastructure erode, we get to watch our cities decay and our infrastructure crumble, we get to watch our tax base erode, and we get to watch the debt clock increment faster than IBM's supercomputer can count and play Jeopardy, and heaven only knows what else we don't even know about yet. Not to mention that all of our intellectual capital is no longer our own. Yet Obama can still lie to us in the SOTU, stand there and blatantly tell us that we still lead in innovation and patents or whatever it was he said. Right. Yes, damn those tree huggers and their regulations. How dare they? We should label them as insurgents.

reply to post by babybunnies

Yep. But now they're complaining that the engineers in India are getting too expensive. Yet my son has friends who DO have their engineering degrees (electrical, chemical, and mechanical, not to mentions tons of computer engineering ones) and they can't find jobs. Well in a few cases, they had offers if they would move to China or India.

And NRE, I get what you're saying, but maybe you didn't have the benefit of watching the scenario unfold as they "dumbed down" our kids, first in the media and then in reality. That was all a set up for what came next. Their excuse. It may now be trued that some people can't afford college, but my son's school is full of Americans working on their engineering degrees. Anyone who wants to can afford to go to school. That's some sort of myth. Then when they're finished they'll probably move back in or keep living with mom or dad or both and try to wrangle a job at Home Depot selling light bulbs. And these are sharp kids. See, it's all a lie.

None of what they're telling us and have been telling us for 30 years makes sense. They say one thing and do another. I remember back in the earlly 1991 when I was missioned to offshore 80% of my team by 1998 asking what there would be left for us to do. The answer was that America would become a "service-based" economy. I knew then that it was all over. No amount of justification or sound, logical, complete, and reasonable business cases ever convinced the executives of anything. They were doing this no matter what the cost, tangible or intangible.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by babybunnies

 

Yep. But now they're complaining that the engineers in India are getting to expensive. Yet my son has friends who DO have their engineering degrees (electrical, chemical, and mechanical, not to mentions tons of computer engineering ones) and they can't find jobs. Well in a few cases, they had offers if they would move to China or India.

And NRE, I get what you're saying, but maybe you didn't have the benefit of watching the scenario unfold as they "dumbed down" our kids, first in the media and then in reality. That was all a set up for what came next. Their excuse. It may now be trued that some people can't afford college, but my son's school is full of Americans working on their engineering degrees. Anyone who wants to can afford to go to school. That's some sort of myth. Then when they're finished they'll probably move back in or keep living with mom or dad or both and try to wrangle a job at Home Depot selling light bulbs. And these are sharp kids. See, it's all a lie.

Actually I have seen what has been happening to our children. The set up has been happening for quite some time. This is just the end result. I disagree about

Anyone who wants to can afford to go to school. That's some sort of myth.

. The reality is that many people do not want to be in debt. A higher education here in the U.S. doesn't require money.... up front.

Many people today have debt, and its usually student loans. When people started to realize that college was a privileged and not a right, the education system changed.

Peace, NRE.

The thing about saying our kids were "dumb" started in the 1980s. Then, hypocritically, the school systems started being allowed to fail. The exactly same kind of hypocrisy that the fearmongers about "terroristic threats" gave us out of one side of their mouths while leaving our ports and borders wide open so illegal immigrants can come in and do those jobs Americans won't do.

As far as getting an education, the choice—whether it's a right or a privilege—appears to be between being in debt yet educated or not being in debt and not educated. To each their own on that one. The point remains that there is still a choice. Generations now have had student loan debt and have paid it off. There are also things options available (that vary from state to state) that can significantly reduce the amount of debt. And her again, companies like IBM would rather invest a billion dollars into the schools in India that invest that same money here. We know who they bet their future on.

We can either be angry with ourselves for allowing this nonsense to happen. Or be angry with those that control it. Either way we are not the winners. Whats happening now can be easily traced back in an estimated time line that is very scary.

IMHO this will take many many generations to get back on track.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

I believe I'm angry (if that's even the right word) at both—at them for playing us and at ourselves for allowing it to happen. It sucks when you've been watching it unfold for 30 years and were virtually powerless to do a thing about it because the majority don't see or agree. Wears a person out. It's very frustrating to feel so inept at communicating.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by NoRegretsEver

 

I believe I'm angry (if that's even the right word) at both—at them for playing us and at ourselves for allowing it to happen. It sucks when you've been watching it unfold for 30 years and were virtually powerless to do a thing about it because the majority don't see or agree. Wears a person out. It's very frustrating to feel so inept at communicating.

edit on 2/15/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)

Yes I think its scary that many dont even see it. The blame game is very easy to play, but hard when you realize that you may have played a part all along. I dont mean play a part like parents are sitting around looking for a way to get their children into debt, or into a school system that is preparing them to fail, and not teach them on a level that other countries are.

But for those that see a problem and want to make change and now they cant. On its a personal note, I understand where your coming from.

Peace, NRE.

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver

The bright side is that some of the very best education doesn't come from schools at all, and you don't need schools to learn Thanks for giving me even more to think about.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


In my experience in business, US companies tend to go off shore just so that they can increase their profile. To operate in multiple continents is seen as attractive. In some companies, you can't even get a partnership unless you sit across the table from them and show lots of cultural diversity. Women, non-white people, disabled people....it is attractive to companies to see things like diversity in the partnerships they create.

It is less about cost, and more about showing off. One company i worked for put up 5 million to build a call center that they were not going to operate, nor would they earn from it. They were just leasing their name, and an occassional use of the board room at the site so they could impress potential clients with their "big offshore operation".

reply to post by babybunnies


first i must say a am a american born and raised here, and also i ran a bussiness in the states for 5 years and right now i am working for a subcontractor on a goverment contract....
what i see is the american people have become fat and lazy... they come to work to get a paycheck and they think they deserve a big one, but they dont even think about actually working for that money... they would rather spend there time talking about sports or what some cebeletry on tv is doing than really doing any thing productive... we would rather sit at home and get welfare than do any real work... everybody thinks they are the boss and shouldnt have to do anything but point there finger... but people from other countrys are all to happy to have a job and they will get dirty and work...
the job i am on now is sickning, watching the waste going on we have a team of 40 guys all making way over 100000 a year and we come into work and watch movies or what ever... i surf A.T.S i have been here 1 1/2 year and on a average night nobody works more than 2 hours... we havent done anything now for 2 weeks but everybody still thinks they deserve the big paycheck.... well i decided if you cant beat them join them so here i am sitting on my butt getting paid to surf the net....sorry dont hate me !!!