"Is Satan Really Such a Bad Guy?"

Is Satan Really Such a Bad Guy?

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According to Christianity, Satan is the epitome and embodiment of all evil things, described as "the father of all lies" in the Catholic Church's Catechism (paragraph 391). It is his works that tempt humans into doing bad deeds. If something evil occurs, we can be assured that Satan had something to do with it.

The History of Satan

According to Catholicism, Satan only exists because God allows him to (The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 395). This raises some serious issues about how righteous God can be if he allows evil to exist, but I digress. Satan, as the story goes, began as the angel Lucifer, who outrightly rejected God and rebelled against him. God cast Lucifer and those who followed him into Hell, a place of eternal torture and despair, where God was not present.

Like any good propoganda machine, Christian authorities have made sure to limit the disenimation of information on the enemy (Satan) to what they want the public to know. For example, we are never told why Satan rebelled against God. We're never given his side of the story. Were Satan's reasons for rejecting God and attempting to overthrow him legitimate? From where I'm standing, they could certainly be considered valid if the authorities see fit to hide them from the general public.

For example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the book that outlines Catholic beliefs in detail, has barely half a column in its index devoted to Satan and information on him, where as Jesus Christ has a full 6 pages! Sound like a propoganda machine to you, yet?

Christian authorities have made some big mistakes with their anti-Satan propoganda machine, however. Since there is so little information available about Satan, there is no record of anything he's done or any way to connect events to him. Christians simply and lazily accredit evil occurences to Satan. A good example are the events of September 11. Within weeks, a doctored picture was floating around the internet showing Satan's face in the clouds of smoke and debris eminating from the two towers, thus unfairly making Satan out to be responsible for these tragedies.

Satan vs. God

The only evidence we have to conclude Satan's utter evil is God's word, and frankly, God's word isn't worth too much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Straight after giving Moses the first set of Ten Commandments (which included "Thou shalt not kill"), he let Moses go ahead and order the Levites to go on a mass-murdering rampages, which they did, but only after he talked God out of killing all the people! According to 2 Thessolonians 2:11-12, God will send a strong illusion to people so that they will believe lies, so he can condemn everyone to Hell. After giving Moses the Ten Commandments, God orchestrated a litany of atrocities through isoltated commandments that are simply too great in number to list here. I suggest checking out the The Skeptic's Annotated Bible to see for yourself, specifically this section. These events are detailed in Exodus 32. In 2 Chronicles 18:22, God lies to prophets. Why should anyone take his word at face value if he has no problem with lying to us for no reason other than to have an excuse to condemn us to Hell?

Who's more evil? God or Satan? How can we determine this? Well, it's a simple matter of looking at the actions of both God and Satan. Who's commited more evil acts? Who's done more harm to humanity? Who's been the most oppressive? Is Satan really as bad as the Christian Smear Campaign makes him out to be? Let's find out...

God

•God takes away Adam and Eve's eternal life, thus commiting the first murder, and holds their descendants responsible and visiting Adam and Eve's punishment down on their children. In today's moral standards, the sins of the father die with the father.
•God destroys all life on Earth in a great flood, except for a drunk (Noah) and his family, for failing to worship him.
•God's tenth plague upon the Israelites was the unjustified murder of all firstborn sons in Egypt, which undoubtedly included little children.
•Before sending the plagues to Egypt, God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" so that he wouldn't let the Israelites go, so he could have an excuse to visit horrible plagues upon them, like boils, killing cattle and murdering all firstborn sons. (Exodus 4:21)
•God orders the Levites to kill their "every man and his neighnor" for worshipping another god. This cost 3000 lives. (Exodus 32:27)
•God sends a plague to the Israelites, apparently feeling that mass-butchery wasn't enough of a punishment. (Exodus 32:35)
•God kills Onan for refusing to impregnate his late brother's (whom God also slew) wife and instead "spilling his seed on the ground." (Genesis 38:8-10)
•God kills the entire populations of Soddom and Gammorah (again, including women, children and infants) for practicing certain sexual techniques.
•God gives all Philistines hemorrhoids in their pubic areas. (1 Samuel 5:9)
•God kills over 50,000 people for looking at an ark. (1 Samuel 6:19)
•God kills 70,000 people because King David decided to have a census. (1 Chronicles 21:7-14)
•God approves of slavery, and instructs owners to beat their slaves. (Proverbs 29:19)
•And, finally, God makes sure that if you are guilty of even the smallest transgression, you shall suffer endlessly for all eternity, following a dramatic homecoming for Jesus, who will be extremely pissed off at everyone for putting him to death, even though it was just the Romans and even though he knew what was going to happen beforehand, and he could have easily avoided it by using his power as God to perform a miracle and prove who he was. (See the entire book of Revelation)


Satan

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

It doesn't take a mathematician to add up and compare God and Satan's respective body counts. God has, after all, killed billions of people in a great flood. Satan never did anything like that. What was the only thing Satan did "wrong"? He rebelled against God, but wouldn't you? Look at what kind of a God he is! He needlessly murders people in nearly every book and passage of the Old Testament! He created an entire race of people for the sole purpose of catoring to his own ego, and then gets mad when we don't live up to our appointed role in life or question one of his decisions! He is a ruthless, dictatorial, narcissistic, sociopathic mass murderer. If I go to Hell for not worshipping him, so much the better. I'd rather spend eternity with Satan, someone who hasn't treated the human race like disposable garbage, someone who has given knowledge to humanity rather than trying to suppress it.

It's time to stop this needless slandering of Satan's name. Satan has done nothing to deserve it. He hasn't killed anyone, publicly exonerated slavery, demanded our worship or threatened us with eternal damnation for not doing his bidding. It is God who is guilty of all these crimes. Satan's done nothing but rebel against a repugnantly unjust authority figure, and he gets eternal damnation and association and blame for all evil on Earth! Meanwhile, Martin Luther King, Jr. gets a holiday named after him, and Satan was far more courageous that King was. After all, Satan stood up to an all powerful narcissist who made it clear that he never would change his mind on any issue. King at least had a democracy to work with. The Christian Smear Campaign toward Satan is completely unwarranted. Maybe, before criticizing Satan, they should look at the God they worship. Is Satan really a bad guy? Certainly not in comparison to God. In fact, I'd much rather have Satan running things. He just can't be worse than God.

You might want to fix your thread title.. By the way Satan Does not exist, Neither does God

Originally posted by TechVampyre
You might want to fix your thread title..

By the way Satan Does not exist, Neither does God

edit on 13-2-2011 by TechVampyre because: (no reason given)

Existing or not, you should believe one side or another fictionally.

Like think what IF even though it can or can't.

I for one do not believe in the bible nor the biblical god (but I do believe in one), and you have to take into account what the story is saying.

Does not have to be real to say something.

Oh, and thanks for the thread fix! Was a little mistake

I could of sworn somebody posted this thread before
I think I remember someone posting

"SATAN DOESN'T WANT YOU DEAD, HE WANTS YOU ALIVE SO YOU CAN KEEP SINNING" or something as a reply to this very thread.
If only I could find it, it was a pretty big thread.

Originally posted by Segador
I could of sworn somebody posted this thread before
I think I remember someone posting

"SATAN DOESN'T WANT YOU DEAD, HE WANTS YOU ALIVE SO YOU CAN KEEP SINNING" or something as a reply to this very thread.
If only I could find it, it was a pretty big thread.

I have no idea if it has been posted, but the post you quoted seems... pretty blind imo.

Honestly, if God wanted satan to stop why did he give permission?

Originally posted by Shoomoo

Originally posted by TechVampyre
You might want to fix your thread title..

By the way Satan Does not exist, Neither does God

edit on 13-2-2011 by TechVampyre because: (no reason given)

Existing or not, you should believe one side or another fictionally.

Like think what IF even though it can or can't.

I for one do not believe in the bible nor the biblical god (but I do believe in one), and you have to take into account what the story is saying.

Does not have to be real to say something.

Oh, and thanks for the thread fix! Was a little mistake

edit on 2/13/2011 by Shoomoo because: (no reason given)

No you are right.. You see Satan is a representation of dark,..The night, And God is a representation of Light, the sun,..And as the story go's every day good beats evil..While at night evil Conquers good..Without the night, The day can't exist.

Good post. I love the way GOD screwed with Moses' head. I can't remember exactly the run around he gave Moses with burning bush, but I remember when I read it, I thought "How mean is GOD?"

And then there's Job. God throws a party in heaven and Satan is there. ENEMY? Then they get into a sorta bet about Job, and to prove Satan wrong.......well you know the rest. Poor Job.

I could never understand why GOD would create the Garden of Eden and tell Adam and Eve not to eat (Cookies) from the "tree." Then leaves Satan in charge, like a babysitter, to tempt the innocent. If that's not bad enough, he punishes all humainty for ever and creates Hell! It doesn't make sense.

Why would GOD send a mothers child to hell. Is not GOD's love at least equal to a mother's love? And what about Abraham and Isaac? To quote a French Philosopher, "If an angel came to me, saying GOD wants you to kill your son, I'd ask for credentials."

Interesting post, Imo Satan is the acuser: "Satan (Hebrew: הַשָׂטָן ha-Satan), "the accuser",[1] is the title of various entities, both human and divine, who challenge the faith of humans in the Hebrew Bible.[2] In Christianity and Islam the title became a personal name, and "Satan" changed from an accuser appointed by God to test men's faith to the chief of the rebellious fallen angels ("the devil" in Christianity, "Shaitan" in Arabic, the term used by Arab Christians and Muslims)."

Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by TechVampyre
You might want to fix your thread title..

By the way Satan Does not exist, Neither does God

edit on 13-2-2011 by TechVampyre because: (no reason given)

Although I'm not defending the logical side of Christianity, it annoys me to no end when somebody says "There is no God." That's one of the most naive things you can possibly think or say. You really think you're in a position to say whether or not there's an intelligent entity above yourself? Newsflash: you don't know ANYTHING, and you're pretty insignificant compared to the rest of the universe. Don't make the mistake of thinking there's no "God", it makes you look like a mentally boxed in anti-logical kid who thinks he's cool cause he can claim to be an "atheist". Which by the way takes just as much faith to call yourself in the first place.

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Originally posted by TechVampyre
You might want to fix your thread title..

By the way Satan Does not exist, Neither does God

edit on 13-2-2011 by TechVampyre because: (no reason given)

Although I'm not defending the logical side of Christianity, it annoys me to no end when somebody says "There is no God." That's one of the most naive things you can possibly think or say. You really think you're in a position to say whether or not there's an intelligent entity above yourself? Newsflash: you don't know ANYTHING, and you're pretty insignificant compared to the rest of the universe. Don't make the mistake of thinking there's no "God", it makes you look like a mentally boxed in anti-logical kid who thinks he's cool cause he can claim to be an "atheist". Which by the way takes just as much faith to call yourself in the first place.

Prove me wrong. As I doubt you can.

actaully the schism between god and satan, is exactly as we see it in movies.

god created man, angels such as Lucifer were upset that man had more of gods favour than the angels, who were nothing more than gods slave labourers.

a revolution ensued, and we are told the revolutionaries are cast down from heaven.away from gods love.

what a wonderful fairy tale.

it seems from what we read of satan, that what he offers is true free will, and what god offers is free will as long as you follow his rules. or he will smack you down WWE style.

i dont believe any of it, but all mythology is interesting.

reply to post by windword




I found the last statement to be funny lol

But wouldn't a person with reason read this bible, and probably turned into a Deist? Mind if I also add that this is a political "Mirror" So to speak, with God in the LEFT. and Satan in the RIGHT (Ironic eh?)

Mind if I explain it short and sweet, as this is about Satan being possibly less evil.

The Left- Right paradigm goes from Total Government to No Government, left to right. On the left we see god, or "Monarchism/Oligarchism" Where there is one ruler or short amount of rulers (Bureaucrats/Arch Angels) On the right we see Anarchism (Satan as the prometheus/ anarchist starting a rebellion and revolution... then there is us (Republic/Democrats).

Here is a video explaining that God may be evil: (Will post in OP)

reply to post by Raelsatu


I think the only time when I do not like that answer when the idea of the existence is not the debate and is answered as such, but It is tolerable and can easily be fixed by leading them to the topic.

Interesting thread, but there are flaws.

Within weeks, a doctored picture was floating around the internet showing Satan's face in the clouds of smoke and debris eminating from the two towers, thus unfairly making Satan out to be responsible for these tragedies.

Actually this picture was not doctored but actually taken off of a camera filming the smoke plumes. I watched it live, and saw it when it happened. I was stunned. This camera footage did not take weeks to go viral, but did so the same day.
www.youtube.com...

Anyhow - people can see things and images in clouds all the time... it was weird that this image looked evil though.

Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

Again, wrong. The snake in the Garden is not Satan. The writers of the original story never believed this snake to be Satan, but rather was one of their deities in a time when they were polytheistic. (Satan's name being implanted into the garden does add up to your suggestion of propaganda)

Quoting from my own research:
Nechushtan is an ancient pre-Judaic god and his name is derived from two Hebrew words “Nechash” (snake or serpent in English) and “Nechoshet” (meaning bronze or copper). Nechushtan has been compared to the Sumerian snake god Ningizidda (who was the god of life) and also to the ancient Greek association of the snake with Aesculapius (god of medicine and healing, where today’s medical symbol comes from).

The Snake in the Garden is Nechushtan according to ancient Jewish folklore.

Anyhow, the only way any of your argumentation’s hold any ground is if people believe these waring deities exist.

Do you believe in God and Satan? You must, otherwise you would not have written this thread. Do I? Hard to say. I believe perhaps there is some kind of divine intelligence, and that to that divine intelligence there has to be a counter to it (laws of chaos and order, yin and yang - energy).

To play devils advocate; who is to say that this Satan character could not have been confused by people as being God in the writings of the Bible? Perhaps the epic death levels you write about are not of or from this God you speak of but from Satan. Wouldn't an evil deity above our understanding know exactly how to 'play' our primitive emotions? If such a being exists, you are discounting it's trickery.

Peace.

Originally posted by Raelsatu

Although I'm not defending the logical side of Christianity, it annoys me to no end when somebody says "There is no God." That's one of the most naive things you can possibly think or say. You really think you're in a position to say whether or not there's an intelligent entity above yourself? Newsflash: you don't know ANYTHING, and you're pretty insignificant compared to the rest of the universe. Don't make the mistake of thinking there's no "God", it makes you look like a mentally boxed in anti-logical kid who thinks he's cool cause he can claim to be an "atheist". Which by the way takes just as much faith to call yourself in the first place.

Just for clarity. I was not born believing in a deity and the indoctrination never took, no faith required.

As for looking like a mentally boxed in anti-logical kid, I personally have lived 46 years so far and not once have I thought my reasoning cool. I simply regard it as a natural outcome of rational thinking.

However, you are correct the universe does make us insignificant. It is also a wild,violent, hostile (to us) place on the whole, even the majority of our planet is not conducive to a long life. That being the case why would I ascribe its existence to a deity that has a personal stake in us ?

With regards to the OP, god has a better PR agency..so no Satan is just badly misrepresented (as mythical figures go).

In the Mideast facing east,you can watch Satan/Set/Saturn rise with the rest of the cast on 3/12/2011 on Stellarium around 22:33:any seconds. The milky way and star Altair will be geb/nut and the covering angel/Mary giving birth by spirit/Venus/love to the rising son/sun/Ra/Jesus with Set/Saturn/Satan near by.It is during 3/11-3/12 2011 at different cardinal points on the world all of the religions be be seen in their respected airspace.You will witness All of the past and present religious stories play out as astronomical formations during this 24 hour day/beginning of progression and restart of all calenders of > TPTB.Now you know the rest of the story and when to set your clocks.the 7th days adventists would have a field day with this one,now we know the 7th day blah blah blah,missing the trees for the forest lol.the bible is scientific code book ,the people/god/prophets are symbols for planets,elements,stars,chemical equations, etc. Here's some hints, comets are the prophets and Adam-atom Eve-nucleus and Cain and Abel are protons and electrons etc.etc.etc..

reply to post by kroms33


I was raised in a very religious home. I read the bible end to end a couple of times. I was really interested in the angel and the vision stories, Jacob's ladder, Ezekiel's UFO. Now I see these "deities" as highly advanced aliens. I use the term alien loosely, because they seem to have been here first. The god of the Old Testament really hated that BAAL guy.

That being said, maybe Satan wrote the bible. It seems to me that if you want to highjack civilization, give it impossible instruction from GOD, that incites murder, rape, terror and fear, confusion and blind ignorance. If I was Satan, that's what I would do.

Just because someone read the bible, doesn't mean they buy it. I don't believe the bible to be "The Word of God." Just because someone believes in GOD. doesn't mean they believe in that god.

reply to post by Shoomoo

Is Satan Really Such a Bad Guy?

Satan is said to be an angel of light.

I guess you're just blinded by the light.

reply to post by Shoomoo


you have to understand the bible and you have to understand god god works in mysterious ways and satan went against god because he wanted power satan is jealous and wants to be god the bible does give information on why satan went against god and satan is the one who causes souls to die threw sin so actually satan murders not god god is merciful and god is like a parent who has rules but punishes them death wouldn't exist if satan wouldn't of went against his god satan is why theres death so therefore he caused all those people to die because of sin and the bible tells you the wages of sin is death and satan causes sin so therefore he kills satan is the reason why god was so angry but god has already found a way to save us and he sent his son to die for our sins jesus death destroyed ours his rising resorted our life and in the new testament god saves all those souls who were already dead from the old

god was angry yes but were his children any parent would get mad if there child went against them god does test us and our faith but to say he actually kills us is not right god saves those who believe in him and god had a reason to wipe out the egyptians they were killing and made slaves out of gods people i just read those scriptures and more than half them god don't kill he punishes so i don't why people are saying god kills because god renews life god is life you people look at the bible and think they know what its saying i already went over this with my church so i know

so even though god was angry he found a way to save us and jesus does love us it is threw jesus we receive everlasting life so basically satan has already failed miserable to get souls jesus is the way the truth and the life god created life satan threw sin tries to destroy it you can't say gods the bad guy its his universe not satans satans a angel gods a god two different things and its true

reply to post by lightangel777


Okay, so everything is okay because Jesus died.
But, what about punctuation? Not to be mean but that was quite the brain fart.