The Roots of Masonry/Hermes

With this thread I invite all to reexplore the roots of Masonry.

I feel myself obliged to a justification and witth the first post I will give my justification.

We nowadays live on a planet and some of its very prominent inhabitants, e.g some very prominent scholars from Harvard, claim we are beyond the point of no return.
Thus said "The Limits to Growth" about half a century (40 years) ago.

The new and the old doomsday predictions seem to focus on a date between 2060 and 2100
Namely;

a- The scientifical simulations said we would hardly be able to go beyond 2100 if we continue the trend and we unfortunately did.

b- Zaroaster the first is claimed to predict a life of 7000 years for the World. He is claimed to have been on Earth around 5000 B.C.
If I take the year 4713 BC for his presence (I will justfy this later) and consider that the Babylonians used lunar calendar, I get the date 2075 AC for his predicted doom.

c- Sir Isaac Newton, my favorite scientist, seems to have predicted, based on the Bible, 2060 AC.

d- Some sects claim the next Pope will be the last.

e- Mohammed is claimed to have said the doom will be not earlier than 1980 AC and not later than 2080 AC.

f- The date 2012 after Mayans is lately postponed for 50-100 years which makes a further coincidence.

The shocking coincidence of the scientific and cultural predictions make me shiver. So I feel myself obliged to this thred, apoligize and wait for your first impressions.

very truly

reply to post by isoger1


Please expain what this has to do with the roots of freemasonry?Try using a search engine and do research,other members aren't here to do it all for you.

reply to post by glen200376

Aye, Aye Sir.

But permit me first to underline that mobody needs to do anything for me. I am not expecting to be paid for my posts and expecting no contribution except for approval at the most, if I happen to come out to be right.

Now I begin with your first order:

The Limits to Growth: "http://www.csiro.au/files/files/plje.pdf" ; First paragraph of the abstract.

Beyond the point of no return? : en.wikipedia.org... esp. "the revenge of gaia"

For the prediction of Zaroastrianism I have only a book in turkish to cite. The prediction I have seen therin. I can give the explicit data if desired.

Newton's prediction: anotherpalebluedot.blogspot.com...

The next Pope ... : www.aztlan.net...

Mohammad's pred. : www.awaitedmahdi.com... (Even if only one day! remains until the year 1400, Doomsday will be .... According to sahih hadith, the blessed Mahdi will live for 40 years after his appearance. ... the life of the community of Muhammad will not exceed the year 1500 (circa 2080)
Note: Harun Yahya is not a reliable source for me but I could only find this link.

www.shtfplan.com...

The relevance you will soon see, if general interest is shown. I do not want to write for myself. I have already deduced some info.

regards


.

Hermes Trismesgistus, Gnostic Tarot, Kabbalah, Alchemy, and Masonry

(see also my current signature)

Originally posted by isoger1
f- The date 2012 after Mayans is lately postponed for 50-100 years which makes a further coincidence.

Samael Aun Weor wrote that the Mayan Katun signifies the beginning of the end in about 2040 A.D.

Originally posted by isoger1
e- Mohammed is claimed to have said the doom will be not earlier than 1980 AC and not later than 2080 AC.

"The Order of the Illuminati, represented by Mohammad, prophet of Islam..." - The Hermetic Marriage by Manly P. Hall 33º

Hermes is one individual that was known to be adept in the sacred sciences.

Emerald tablet of Hermes

Hiram Abiff is thought to be a king from the previous civilization of man. King in the sense of Man's furthest potential, not King in the sense of ruler of other men. He brought the tools to fulfill Solomon's request a temple to honor the creator.

The templars found Abiff's tools and literature during the crusades.

From there the rest has dissolved into Hollywood's adaptation of misinformation for the viewers pleasure.

Peace

"Separate that spirituous (Sanctus or holy fire of the) earth (Shaddai El Chai in the physical body) from the dense (fluid of Semen) or crude (Brute Mercury) by means of (sexual transmutation or Sahaja Maithuna with) a gentle heat (without passion), with much attention (by praying to your Inner Goddess, the Virgin of the World)."

- Hermes Trismesgistus (with commentary)

"It is true that God is dead. Who among us can say that we talk with God? When we look at humanity, we do not see God there. Our spiritual and psychological darkness indicates that our Being is dead in us.

"All of us have assassinated Hiram Abiff from the Masonic Mysteries; all of us have killed the Kala-Hamsa Swan, the immaculate bird of Wagner’s Parsifal, the Holy Spirit; each and every individual is Seth, the Egyptian demon who plotted and procured the death of Osiris."

We have two well known methods of rasoning, namely inductive and deductive, and we may use both.

In the deductive way we, having observed that (as in the case of doom predictions) main religions have a coomon base, we may assume they mainly say the truth. Then we try to find if Hermes (or any similar name related with his teachings) is mentioned in any of the holy books.

In the inductive way I prefer to adopt here, we pinpoint the properties of Hermes and then go further.

a- Hermes was a wise "man?" who taught men, "trismestigus" implying in tree main branches.
b- His school was hermetic, i.e. sealed.
c- He taught ;
c1- ways to open our souls up to Universe.
c2- magic and words to be used for/during magic.
c3- possibly medicine and math.

What he taught discloses any possibility that he lived before Noah (I do not want to mention any degree allegory or expanded allegory here). He must have lived when the mankind could write, even he may have taught writing.
Without writing we could hardly keep his teachings, because the words of magic are not to be changed in any way.

Now we are supposed to look for pointers. The first pointer is that of the Sumerian books. They were really sealed (James RAVEN, The Lost Libraries, ISBN 975-271-174-X).

The second pointer comes from history, a winged god(like) figure is still with us.
a- "http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Hermes_(New_Earth)"
b- "http://www.test-dr.com/HASTANE/uzman-hekim.html" ( the sliding image, I could not find the image in Google because the name is dominated by a firm.)

So we have a God-Angel like figure and we should rather speak of Angels or Aliens not expecting God very Almighty to visit our small planet.

Now I put here a very important info from Harutyun Marutyan, an Armenian scholar: "Also, according to Indian mythology, there were god-brothers of wind -- Harut and Marut. " ...

This information may be a bridge.

I beg for excuse but I have to have a break now. I will continue and wait for responses in the meanwhile.

being at your service,

reply to post by isoger1

Excuse me for having done misuse of prefixes "in" and "de". I noticed it just now as I read my previous post and I could not edit.

I waited for confirmation from Vinay or any other indian myth specialist bu none came. So our only source for this fact for the time being is Dr. Harutyun Marutyan who is to be found via a net search.

But "harutyun" means genesis and we see Harut is related to genesis. So a little bit net search is due. I have found in "http://www.sherryshriner.com/books/sons_daughterss.htm":

Genesis 6:1-7

(c) The Sons of God were sent down to teach mankind truth and justice; and for three hundred years did indeed teach Cain's son Enoch all the secrets of Heaven and Earth.

Here is stated that (I will use the abbr. A... for Angel or Alien) A... has taught mankindn (Enoch being a symbol) by visiting the Earth. The not mentioned allegories are, if this is true, not true.

No name is given for A...

We may sense that this is in fact not genesis. The genesis was much earlier. About 30 thousand years earlier. This is freedom to mankind and we have to look for words like "uhuru" , "hurruyah" etc. following the human way from Africa.

And this teaching can not be before Noah who must have lived about 12 thousand years ago.

The names I mentioned after Dr. Marutyan is to be found in Quran in 2/102:

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.

Is that man made or from Heaven is the question now and I will continue tomorrow.

very truly yours,

Now we have:

1- Place : May well be. Babylon is weakly said to be derived from bab-ı ilm , bab-ı elohim; i.e. gate of knowledge , gate of A...(elohim)
2. No date is given but we can make pretty good educated guesses.

On these two issues I will write later.

3- That heresay of the power on Solomon relies on magic is mentioned, it is nor denied but doing the same is prohibited.

4- What has been taught (medicine, math. , etc.) should not be taught to the public, It is supposed to be taught to carefully chosen people. Evil arises if done otherwise and taught to the public.

That is nothing only said by Quran. Christian sects said the same thing also. Examples are "The Blue Beard (no blue bearded thing araound except for the Earth) " , "Dr. Frankenstein (if a partner can not be found/made and survivbility attained, there comes revenge) , Faust (Goethe after Rose Croix), probably "Pied Piper of Hamelin" and a couple of Andersen tales.
Here I can only say that it is soon to be seen. If we can manage sustainibility I will be very happy because I have also given some 40 years of my life for a better life for human. I heve tried to make science and I was no positivist.
But the legend seems to deny the possibility. It seems that we wanted the control of our destiny and failed to do.

Have we had any other chance?
I would rather say no. It was a choice between pest and leprosy, "wahl zwischen pest und lepra " as the German say. I am glad that we have tried this way.
I am glad that NASA studied the Orion years long and the European Space Agency detected potential life creating molecules in Orion, both directing their antennas to Orion.

Did our Creator not know that such an end was to be expected?
He did.
Zaroastorianism and Masonry, as I will mention in a future post) seem to have appeared simultaneously and there we seem to have been told about the span of our earthly existence.

One of the mystical allegories that describes this situation is given in the masnavi form (harname= burro's story) in " www.hayatipaylas.org... "

I can translate the whole poem if desire arises.

What is this divine comedy then?

It is that we are in a test lab, being tested under changing conditions. Having and not having ; knowing and not knowing ; etc.

very truly

reply to post by isoger1


I seem not to have answered my queation. The psalm can not easily be man made.

1- Mohammad could hardly guess the names.

2- That such a secret teaching had existed he could hardy guess. We , at least me, have seen this after the decoding of Sumerian Script.
I have first learned from the late Dr. Feynman's writings that the Babylonians did well in math. I at first vaugely knew the sealed way of med. and math. to Greece.

And I will make many more checks asking about the truth of this statement. The ones above are merely preliminaries.

waiting for your thoughts,

About the place there can not be much to say; the most likely candidate os stay for these A...s should be Babylon.
1- We know the roots of magic is to be trackable to this location.
2- We know the same for script .
3- We know this city and surroundings was a center of ancient civilization(s).
4- We know the name (Babylon=Babylom) forces us to make speculations.

How about the date?
It is certainly not the Babylon of 2000-2500 B.C. whose ruins we have detected. The Valley of Kings in Egypt, the pyramids and the Sumerian works seem to be dated prior; we can not explain these facts with these aforementioned dates. So at a previous date.

It can not be before Noah. The flood should be regional and at about 12000 B.C. At that time there were men in America and Pacific Islands.
We fail to observe cultural similarities.

The first successive approximation would give us the average date of 6000 B.C. Not in compliance with the hearsay about Zaroaster the first.
I would personally not expect two visits of A... .

A more educated guess would be around 5000 B.C. Let us take 4713 B.C. The beginning of the Julian Calendar and the masonic date.

Suppose the Fallen Angels came to the Earth at 4713 B.C.
1- They were well capable of teaching magic.
2- We may have known that we have souls, knowing the great Soul etc. but they would be well capable of teaching initiation.
3- They would be capable of saying where the Heavens is.
4- They certainly would be able to teach script, med. , astronomy, geometry and math.
5- They could certainly inform that the Dog barks, and the Great Hunter hunts (the soul). So the exam.
6- The Sumerian priests could go on in accord.
7- The Egyptians would be able to design the Valley of the Kings as a projection of the Milky Way and the three Pyramids (making possible use of magic) as the projection of the Belt Stars.
8- The Nimrod would be able to claim that he is the Greatest Hunter by wearing hunter clothes and so he would have said he is the God.
9- All these would be in accordance with the following Ayahs.
9a (the Quran 3/133) :
And hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and a garden as wide as the distance between heavens and earth, prepared for the righteous

9b ( ibid. 33/5) :
He arranges [each] matter from the heaven to the earth; then it will ascend to Him in a Day, the extent of which is a thousand years of those which you count.

(The Orion being 1000 light years away and well having the same distance as the longest axis.)
10- The name Hermes would easily be derivable from Harut-Marut considering the regional pronunciation Haroo-Maroo(s).

yours very truly,