Now you see me . Now you don't.

By the title of this thread, you could think I"m refering to ghosts. You'd be right.
You might also get the impression that, I have U.F.Os on the brain. Right again.
It could also be Bigfoot, Thunderbirds, Seaserpents, lake monsters. Poltergeists,
Werewolves, Fairys, ( no tales) Elves, Leprachauns, orbs and a wide range of other
phenomena.
All the way to cattle mutilations. Right on all accounts.

For the lack of a better term, I will refer to these collectively as toms, Types Of
Mysteries. Also, you can see that, they can all be filed under, paranormal.
I' ve left out one very significant tom, for good reason, of which I hope, you
will soon see. Now, look at the title, of this thread and you can see, that it
applys to each one of the toms. All share in this, what seems to be a, as
soon as you see me. I'm gone routine. This being the case so often and
reported so far back. You almost have to call it a routine. Slap stick even.
Now you see me. Now you don't.

So a person witnessing, anyone of these toms, right off the bat is going to
question his own sanity. You know the scene well. It's the old double take.
The hey did you see that? I didn't see anything. Slap stick or kneeslapper..
Which ever you prefer. Let's call this, the psych, an event with one viewer. I
wonder how many of these don't get reported? Sometimes the tom will
hang around til you turn to get your friends attention. Then you both end
up looking at nothing..Total mind f___.

Psych.
So we will call this one viewer event . The psych.

Try to catch one of these toms on film. It never happens. Like the time
they tried, out at that crazy skinwalker ranch in Utah. The place seems
to have every one of these toms, that could be seen on any given night.
'In some form or another.
Sometimes two different ones in a single night. Then they employed
some camera's and the place went dead. Nothing happened for, I
believe it was ten days. The investigators were ready to pack it in, to
call it quits. So then, on what they agreed was their last night. The
place went nuts again. Orbs and disembodied voices. Then when they
checked the camera film. They had nothing but static snow. The only
camera that could possibly have captured something, was off.

So there is never, any evidence of what people are obviously very
excited about. Because their jumping up and down, screaming all sorts
of insane sounding things, of what they just witnessed. Sometimes they come in
whole crowds and that's mass hysteria, or mass hallucination. These are most
of the time very credible people. Most of the time the can convince anyone
that at least they think, they saw something.

Brain fart
Lets call this the brain fart. No evidence left behind to support any claims.


Also no one ever seems to get hurt do they? It's almost like someone said, ya
go ahead mess with 'em. Just don't hurt them. Well if we drive them out of their
minds and they hurt themselves, does that count? So no one ever really gets hurt,
in anyway, that we can attribute, to the paranormal. At least as far as I know.

So what ever this persona is it's not totally allowed to interfere with us. Not in
a direct way. At least not in a way that would harm us. I'm going to shorten this
thread here. Because I think you can all see, how this is coming together. Now this isn't
where these characteristics end. But do you see how they are beginning, to make up
a prophile?

No harm
They never seem to cause injury, or death to mankind, as far as I can tell.

So it seems, they are taking there frustrations, out on the cattle for now. This is evidence
of more demonic mischief. Notice how where this tom is concerned, there are no
sightings, of what is leaving the evcidence. So we move thru all these paranormal
activities, going, sighting, no evidence, in the case of each tom. Until we come to
cattle mutilations. Suddenly it's backwards. Evidence no sighting. So how did the
calf get that way? Don't look at me.This creates so much opportunity, for men to start
accussing each other. Over things niether one knows anything about. War.

Without being dramatic, the tom I left out was demons. The Devil. Hells Angels.
When ever you witness the paranormal. This is who is really behind it. The dead
arn't up, walking around bothering the living.. Sorry it's not their M.O. The Bible gives
very clear accounts of these things. So we can defend ourselves from them. The
Native American peoples say Bigfoot is a spirit. They describe him as having magic.
I agree by saying he is demonic. They come up out of the Earth to confuse and
confound.

I guess I'll stop there so I leave some meat on the bone.



Psych:
Mind games. This, would have to be a person, who wants to mess with our minds, to no end.
He most likely despises mankind, looking to mock and drive us crazy constantly.
He may even hide our keys once in awhile. He is full of mischief aganst man in the worst way.

Brain fart
This is how this person seems to further his mindgame. Well I know what I saw. Well yes
but do have any evidence. No evidencee no claim. Move along.

No harm
This can only be because certain parameters that he is able to operate in.
He is able to slide in and out of different worlds. Slip thru doors or windows to other dimensions.

And there it is ATS my first submission to the paranormal forum. Tear it up.

Randyvious

There's another term I heard for what you describe. And that's 'Window Fallers'. Read all about the definition of a window-faller below;

What is a 'window-faller'?

So if I am catching your drift, you are saying that all of the "TOM's" are the dark energy of Satan manifested into other phenomena meant to fool and distract?

I am not refuting that possibility in light of:

(CAUTION: HIGHLY GRAPHIC DEMONIC POSSESSION) Not for faint of heart.

reply to post by randyvs

I have to say I'm with you, randyvs. As a hypothesis--the grand unifying theory even--the Bible calls the shots and answers the questions like no other theory hands down.

It fully addresses the issues that brought most of us here: From UFOS to NWO to Ancient Aliens to Climate Craziness to Man's Inhumanity to Man and so much more. It's all there. The following article is well-written & well-researched. The author goes big on the claims and gives an impressive argument.

Space Brothers, Spirits and Demons
The purpose of these quotes is to present evidence that supports my view of the UFO phenomenon:

1. UFOs are serving the purpose of social engineering, of conditioning and even brainwashing.

2. The relation to other "paranormal" phenomenon is not coincidence. These quotes will show that the UFO phenomenon is a modern representation of age-old occult manifestations; i.e., researchers in "UFOlogy" would be studying Demonology had they lived in earlier times.

3. The messages given to contactees are one and the same as today's "new age" philosophy.

4. They are aliens in the literal sense of the word, however, as to their true nature and purpose they've been spreading a malevolent lie to humanity.

5. The Bible confirms these assertions.

6. New Age and occult writers also confirm this.

7. And, researchers who don't subscribe to any particular spiritual path have also come to the same conclusion.
www.conspiracyarchive.com...

And some quotes:

“The statistical data which I have extracted, and which I have tried to summarize briefly here, indicate that flying saucers are not stable machines requiring fuel, maintenance, and logistical support. They are, in all probability, transmogrifications of energy and do not exist in the same way that this book exists. They are not permanent constructions of matter.”
- John Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 182


“Many UFO reports, he said, seem to pertain more to accounts of 'poltergeists' (cases where objects fly around the room and strange sounds are heard) and other types of 'psychic' manifestations than to 'actual solid items of nuts and bolts hardware.' 'That is one of the reasons,' added Dr. Hynek, 'why I cannot accept the obvious explanation of UFOs as visitors from outer space.'”
- J. Allen Hynek interview, The Unexplained Column, by Allen Spraggett, November 8, 1975


“A working knowledge of occult sciences...is indispensible to UFO investigation.”
- Trevor James, Flying Saucer Review Vol. 8, No. 1

“The 'medical examination' to which abductees are said to be subjected, often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscent of the medieval tales of encounters with demons. It makes no sense in a sophisticated or technical framework: any intelligent being equipped with the scientific marvels that UFOs possess would be in a position to achieve any of these alleged scientific objectives in a shorter time and with fewer risks.”
- Dr. Jacques Vallee, Confrontations, p. 13

“Demonology is not just another crackpot-ology. It is the ancient and scholarly study of the monsters and demons who have seemingly coexisted with man throughout history. Thousands of books have been written on the subject, many of them authored by educated clergymen, scientists and scholars, and uncounted numbers of well-documented demonic events are readily available to every researcher. The manifestations and occurences described in this imposing literature are similar, if not entirely identical, to the UFO phenomenon itself. Victims of demonomania (possession) suffer the very same medical and emotional symptoms as the UFO contactees.
... The devil and his demons can, according to the literature, manifest themselves in almost any form and can physically imitate anything from angels to horrifying monsters with glowing eyes. Strange objects and entities materialize and dematerialize in these stories, just as the UFOs and their splendid occupants appear and disappear, walk through walls, and perform other supernatural feats.”
- John Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse

“If UFOs are, indeed, somebody else's 'nuts and bolts hardware' then we must still explain how such tangible hardware can change shape before our eyes, vanish in a cheshire cat manner (not leaving a grin), seemingly melt away in front of us, or apparently 'materialize' mysteriously before us without apparent detection by persons nearby or in neighboring towns. We must wonder, too, where UFOs are 'hiding' when not manifesting themselves to human eyes.”
- J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee, The Edge on Reality, pp. xii-xiii

“Albert K. Bender set up his room as an occult temple in effect, and three men in black came knocking at his door, beginning a whole era in ufology. UFO beings are described in terms very much like the 'fairy folk' of traditional occult lore. Historical myths are filled with legends of beings from the sky that come to Earth to teach wisdom in the same manner as the contactee lore. UFO 'trance channeling' is identical to occult 'automatic writing' or psychical mediumship. Abductions by the classical elves and such are very similar to UFO abductions. I could go on, but I think this makes the point.”
- Allen Greenfield, "Interview with Allen H. Greenfield", Alternate Perceptions Magazine online, #77, March 2004


www.conspiracyarchive.com...

edit on 10-2-2011 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Marked One
There's another term I heard for what you describe. And that's 'Window Fallers'. Read all about the definition of a window-faller below;

What is a 'window-faller'?

Right on thanks for the link.

Kurious

That videos crazy. I don't know what to say to that. She sounded like nothing if heard before. Thanks for sharing.

reply to post by kinda kurious


That's a great video. Looks truly genuine, especially with its voice. Shame there's not more shots of her face to see the expressions!

reply to post by The GUT


Hey Gut thanks for taking the time to post the quotes. I always save quotes I like, I have a ton of 'em and found some from you. Thanks partner.

Marked one

Interestingly enough, a huge wolf. Is the first thing noted at Skinwalker ranch. Which I recommend as a very good account of the paranormal.

thats good! but i dont believe in the devil or god in the wya most do.

to me god is the universe. satan is nothing. god is something. satan is anti matter. god is matter. god is infinite. satan is nothing. god is everything. and again satan is nothing. god is positive. satan is negative.

you see god is everyone and everything. satan is no one or nothing. it's a constant struggle between something and nothing..u have to have nothing in order to have something. if there was no good there would be no bad.

jus like if hatred didnt exist there would be no love.

god is satan and satan is god.

just not like everyone else thinks!

reply to post by metalholic


Ok and thank you for reading my thread. and replying.

reply to post by kinda kurious


thanks for showing that video! I now have a reason to invest in Depends and plastic bed sheets. lol interesting video none the less. I do wonder if these possessions are nothing more than sociological mental ilness'. Meaning the whole idea of God vs Satan is in fact a concept initally brought upon by others in the community in this girls head, possibly leading to some malfunctioning or rewiring of her mind. If she was born into a society where God & the devil were replaced by dog & a cat, would she spout the gospel of the perceived worse of the two? If she was born somewhere where the concept of God & devil dont exist and catholocism wasnt so rampant, would she even be afflicted? This is a very interesting topic. This kind of stuff makes me really wonder what the effect of people and social ideas has on our own reality...

Since the video I posted before of the exorcism has been widely commented on, I'd like to provide a more detailed backstory on how I came upon it.

Last weekend I was watching Piers Morgan on CNN (he is the Larry King replacement) The program was about exorcisms and featured the actor Anthony Hopkins who spoke about his new movie "The Rite." After that segment, Morgan interviewed a researcher named John Zaffis. He was accompanied by Michelle Reading whose mother Pat became possessed and had 16 exorcisms (apparently one isn't generally sufficient) and she ultimately died of cancer which is evidently common. They showed very compelling footage which I had been searching for when I came across the clip I posted.

I could only find a transcript of the show which I've condensed below. It is a long but fascinating read. I hope you all enjoy it. Sorry to derail thread but it seems relevant. Big hat tip to OP for a stimulating premise.

Michelle Reading's mother, Pat, had 16 exorcisms over the course of a decade. John Zaffis is an expert in the field who investigated her case.



MORGAN: And you're under absolutely no illusion that what we're seeing there is completely genuine and Michelle's mother was possessed.



ZAFFIS: Oh, absolutely. Everything was ruled out. She had all kinds of testing done. Physical, mental, absolutely everything was ruled out. And as time was going on during the investigation with them, Pat started falling victim to this. She was exhibiting, you know, several of the different signs that we look for. Gaining an enormous amount of strength. Talking in a language she wasn't familiar with. Familiar with different things.

I mean, she would just start tossing these big, hulky guys around holding her down like they were rag dolls. 



MORGAN: Are these -- are these classic signs of somebody who has been, in your view, possessed by the devil?

ZAFFIS: Oh, absolutely. It falls right into the category of what a true possession actually is.



MORGAN: Michelle, obviously, very difficult for you to have to watch this. Your mother has passed away since this video.

READING: Yes. MORGAN: She went through 16 exorcisms. READING: Yes.



MORGAN: I mean, it must have been, as a daughter, just almost unbearable to watch this, wasn't it?

READING: It's a nightmare. It was a nightmare. And I knew if I wasn't there for her, in a way, after the fact, you know, no one really -- no one seemed to be able to, on a daily basis, understand it. 

MORGAN: Was there a time when your mother was perfectly normal or did she always have this?



READING: No, no, no. She was perfectly normal. It happened almost over a ten year span. The entire thing.



MORGAN: Do you remember the first time it happened?



READING: Oh, yes, I do. I really do.......Yes. Actually my father and sister couldn't handle it. And it -- I had to be there for her. And I didn't mind. I mean, I knew -- I knew that it wasn't her brain malfunctioning. I knew she wasn't psychotic. She didn't drink. Never did drugs. I knew something was wrong with her. And it was obvious. And the way she acted, it was frightening, but it wasn't exaggerated.

So, I mean, but it's still frightening. I mean, the strength she had and that she gained. I mean, she tossed grown men that were holding her down off of her. I mean, as you saw in that, she had to be tied down.

MORGAN: Do you believe that she was possessed by the devil or evil spirits?



READING: I do. Did I believe that was possible before it happened to her? Open mind, maybe. Having it happen to your mother and knowing your mother for that long and then having it happen, I do.

ZAFFIS: Pat Reading was an exception. She wasn't involved with anything. She never practiced anything. And she was what we call a sole (ph) victim that is purely these things happened randomly. One day she was out in the yard hanging out laundry. And she claimed that something came over her that day. We were never able to find anything substantial behind it. And shortly right after that, the haunting broke out in the home. And then she ended up falling victim to actual pure possession.



MORGAN: -- and she had 16 of these incidents where you had to bring a priest in, right? READING: Yes.



MORGAN: When she came around, did she have any memory of what had happened?



READING: No memory at all. It was a blank moment in time for her. She'd be very emotional though afterwards because she'd either be lying on a couch if we did one in our home with a priest. Or she would be at the chapel. 


ZAFFIS: Basically, rule everything out from a medical perspective, a psychological perspective. And if there's really something on a spiritual level going on, reach out. There's a lot of spiritual people out there to be able to help people. And very accessible to, you know, counseling and helping people, you know. 
 


MORGAN: I mean, Michelle, your mother died of cancer. READING: Yes.



MORGAN: What I've been told about people who go through a number of exorcisms is that they often do die of some kind of terminal disease. Do you believe that they're linked in some way?



READING: She had what they believe was pancreatic cancer or colon cancer. I think in a way they are linked. I think it's because of the stress of what their bodies go through. 



ZAFFIS: Again, that's a very common factor. We know, medically, you know, if you put a lot of stress on the body, brings diseases into the forefront. Now, I've been dealt with -- I've dealt with quite a few of these cases where people went through possession and they come up with all kinds of different diseases. But cancer is one of the prominent ones. 



MORGAN: I suppose, finally, the obvious problem here, it seems to me, is that your mother had 16 exorcisms. Nothing worked. 

READING: No. 

MORGAN: I mean, why should people bother, John, in having these if they're not going to work?



ZAFFIS: Well, the key factor with this is very seldomly (ph) an exorcism or a deliverance is very successful on one try. And the best analogy I have, it's like taking an onion and you keep peeling it away and peeling it away until you get to the source. Because it's very seldomly (ph) just one spirit. It's usual multiple spirits. And usually if you keep going and you can finally get the name of the spirit or the demon, it makes it much easier for the exorcist to get that person freed. Why? Because it has to respond once its name is revealed.


FULL CNN TRANSCRIPT

reply to post by kinda kurious


DERAIL?

Ya, all this help getting my point across. Making things more clear as we go along. you guys it's really derailing my thread you guys

No way Kurious, this thread isn't even close to the train wreck I expected. Please feel free my man. It's all pertinent.
I appreciate your interest.

Oh hey I forgot to mention I seen the last part of that interview with Mr. Hopkins. I wonder if he was promoting his movie when he said he used to be an atheist, then agnostic, now a believer? Then I went and seen the movie.

Big Hopkins fan was the main reason.

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

...I do wonder if these possessions are nothing more than sociological mental ilness'. Meaning the whole idea of God vs Satan is in fact a concept initally brought upon by others in the community in this girls head, possibly leading to some malfunctioning or rewiring of her mind...

..If she was born somewhere where the concept of God & devil dont exist and catholocism wasnt so rampant, would she even be afflicted?

I know what you mean on that, ziggy. I was of the mind for years that most if not all demon accounts, supernatural strangeness, channelers, contactees, etc were experiencing nothing more than seemingly real figments of our impressive subconscious.

Then a few years ago I moved to a mountain community that is a mecca for all things new age and even overtly occult. My social and working life has been centered there the last few years.

I first thought that some of my friends that 'channeled' were just lovable nutters and that's about right for most of them.

But a few of my acquaintances are of a more serious nature and I eventually came to the dumfounding conclusion that these select few were indeed in contact with a hyper-intelligence separate from their own subconscious.

So, if a person comes to the personal conclusion that beings from another dimension do exist then they may gravitate to 'spiritual knowledge" in the form of a religious teaching.

Maybe these interdimensional beings are incognito and all religions interpret them in their religio-context like you postulated, that's certainly a possibility. But I gravitated to Christianity because I do think it fits all the puzzle pieces together like no other hypothesis imo.

Just one of the bread crumbs I followed to that conclusion is that messages from both channelers and contactees show a preoccupation with telling various stories that somehow deny Yeshua was who he and the Word say he is.

They don't bash Islam or Hinduism or Scientology. Just a small crumb, but--for me--telling.

randyvs: I'm always up for good quotes too if'n you have any share. and p.s. - I bet you did expect to get slammed really hard for making this OP. Thanks for making it in spite o' that.

reply to post by randyvs



When I started reading your thread I thought "Oh no, another one of these goof-balls that thinks fairies are flitting around the countryside". But by the time I got to the end I realized you and I are firmly in the same camp. I have believed this for some time now. I always thought that ghosts were demons in reality (from my own experiences) and when I first read about that theory in relation to UFOs I thought it must explain all these 'toms' as you call them.

It's great to see that I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Great thread, S&F for you.

Oh, just wanted to add, look up the John Bell case. This is an actual haunting that took place in America in 1819 or somewhere around that. Anyway, the spirit actually managed to kill John Bell with poison. Very interesting case, I still believe it to be demonic. There was a movie called An American Haunting made about it but that's not worth watching. They changed the story so much that it bares little resemblance to the actual case. The demon spoke out loudly and distinctly to many people besides the family members including president Andrew Jackson who went to visit them with a party of men. Look it up, very interesting.

Thanks randyvs for this thread. I am glad you are venturing into this topic of discussion.

IMHO I believe TOMs do in fact exist. But I dare to counter with there are good and evil ones, seemingly the evil gets attention more often than good ones. We are more able to accept and not actually recognize the good ones.

There is a battle within the heavens between good and evil, But God has given us the Bible and assures us Good will prevail. He is giving the devil his chance to win souls, He is also given man free will to choose Life everafter if we choose to believe His promises.

More manifestations of the evil of the spirit world will occur, as the pressure is on, because the devil knows he will not be able to get enough into his legions as Time Draw Neigh.

Just my 2sense.

reply to post by SunflowerStar


I agree with most of what you say, but I must make a point here. Whenever something appears in a form which is deceitful, it is not from God. What I mean is, if you see a fairy, bigfoot, UFO, ghost, hat man whatever, it can't be from God. Angels will not come to deceive you only to carry out the will of God. But you must also remember that even the devil can appear as an angel of light. So don't be deceived.

Also, I think the whole thing about disclosure that everyone's talking about is impossible. I think this theory explains why the government doesn't own up to UFOs. They know about them and that they're real as a phenomenon, but they can't understand the nature of them. They don't know what to do with them or what to tell us about them. Without the belief system we're talking about the government will never be able to form a policy to deal with them because they aren't nuts and bolts craft.

reply to post by SunflowerStar

reply to post by wtbengineer


Oh, just wanted to add, look up the John Bell case. This is an actual haunting that took place in America in 1819 or somewhere around that. Anyway, the spirit actually managed to kill John Bell with poison. Very interesting case, I still believe it to be demonic. There was a movie called An American Haunting made about it but that's not worth watching. They changed the story so much that it bares little resemblance to the actual case. The demon spoke out loudly and distinctly to many people besides the family members including president Andrew Jackson who went to visit them with a party of men. Look it up, very interesting.


A demon spoke to Andrew Jackson? Never heard that before. I think your not the only one, who's glad I finally cooked up something to this forum. There's so much light here. I had know idea.


Sunflowerstar
It's all good, you're an adult human being capable of discerning this life for yourwself. In your own way, coming to
your own conclusions. I can't really even show you, why I think you might be4 wrong. Allow me to offer some seeds instead. You've most likely heard the Bible says, "For the Devil has power to assume a pleasing shape"
This is telling us straight out, IMO. The world in which we thrive. Is populated also by shapeshifters.
Satan and his demons have power to take on any form they choose They're the shapeshifters.

Thanks for your interest.

reply to post by randyvs


Randy Buddy..!





The Bible gives very clear accounts of these things. So we can defend ourselves from them.


Brotha' - unless your bible looks like this, I'd say your S.O.L...let me know if you want one, I got a guy at Trinity Broadcasting that gets 'em wholesale.


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