The Dangers of Religious Hypnosis and Indoctrination: The genocidal faiths of Christianity & Islam.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Were you wrong, or just ignoring me ...

Always thought that Atheists don't like "made up" stuff ...

Originally posted by AllIsOne
There are plenty of passages in the NT where Jesus claims that he is the only way. How do you justify this with your claim that Jesus was non-religious? It's sounds rather "exclusive" than "inclusive" to me ...

It is not exclusive my friend, it is all inclusive. If you believe Christ was the Son of God, then he believed you too were a Son or Daughter of God. The belief you put in Christ, is the belief you should also put in yourself. God is within us all. This is not a religious statement. Religion is built on a Priest Class which believes THEY are the only way to God. Jesus was telling people that God was within them, that they did not need to go to the Priest Class for Salvation, that they should forgive each other when they do wrong to each other, that they should love each other as Children of God.

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.

There is room for everyone in God's house.

I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Where does Christ dwell now? In your heart, your mind and your soul. Where does your favorite dead relative reside now? In your heart, your mind and your soul.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is telling his disciples to follow his way, his truth, and his life. Do as he has done.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Can't you see God in the face of those you love? I see God in everyone I meet.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Look closely at those you love, can you not see him?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

What is that animating spirit that moves us? What is it that is the source of our purest thoughts? Can you not see him?

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

If you cannot believe that the father is in Christ, and in you, then believe it for his works sake, the Kingdom of Heaven that he gave his life for.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

It is not just about believing in Christ, it is about the work that he was doing. Teaching people that they are Children of God and loving them as such.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It is not about building another religion, it is about keeping his commandments and building a Kingdom of Heaven.

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

We aren't suppose to be building a church or a religion. Christ's Church is the Universe, and his religion is love for all.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by AllIsOne


Both.

reply to post by Lucifer777


Okay can you provide me with a modern day implementation of the barbarism which the Bible speaks of? Keep in mind that backward countries will have backward laws. Places like Pakistan are stuck about 400-500 years behind the rest of the world. You keep talking about how the Bible asks you to kill and hurt people and etc. can you provide me with evidence for people following those laws to the teeth?

I would also argue that a Christian community is a fantastic community, in example, the Amish. How come the Amish are not practicing the killings and stoning as stated in the old testament?

What you are doing is focusing on the negative aspects of a religion and attacking that part while failing to mention the good of the books. How many negative people have turned to the Bible in their most dire times and became good people?

I was one of those people who did drugs every weekend and only cared about myself. I turned to the Bible and got my life on track through wonderful teachings of love and respect. I know my best friend who turned to the Bible than learned a meaningful way of life. My other friend, who was easily influenced, drank rubbing alcohol because he was mad as this girl. He should have died but he came out of the hospital a Christian and leads his life through the Bible.

You can focus on the negative aspect of any culture and religion which is easy to do. If you get hung up on the negative aspects than that religion is not for you. However, if you think that every Christian has a tendency of committing genocide because it says that the King of Kings will return one day you have failed in providing any proof for your allegations.

Does it say the King of Kings will return and destroy the sinners? Yes it does. Does this mean that I can kill others and destroy people of another faith? No it doesn't. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible to take up the swords against your neighbour who is a Muslim, a Buddhist, or a Hindu. It doesn't say Jesus needs any help so why are we expected to pick up the sword and fight?

I understand your beef with the Koran because it does say violent things about people from other beliefs, however, the Bible says to love thy neighbour and Love thy God as the golden rules. The old testament was made for the Jews but you should still follow the 10 commandments, that is common sense if you believe in a deity that is.

And again I have shown you that any religion can be dangerous, any thought can be dangerous, and anything can be used as a tool for a great leader to cause destruction. People are stupid and can be sold wars with great speeches.

I do understand that Christianity is one of the leading causes of deaths in the past but Atheistic leaders have done the same. The funny thing no Atheist ever mentions the Albanian incident where 21 million Russian orthodox Christians died, some tortured, some killed, some starved.

Every nation, culture, and religion has blood on its hands. The three largest, statistically, should have more blood on their hands than anyone else. If Buddhism was the largest religion you will see Buddhists killing other people more so than anyone else.

So for you to say the genocidal faith of Christianity and Islam and back up your faith shows a major biased view on the major religions. Please come back when Christians start waging wars because we are the holy ones and must kill the "lower" life forms.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Slippery slope my friend. The God that Jesus referred to as his "father" and described in the OT, is not a god I can accept. I know that Jesus "reset" everything, but still ... It's his father that troubles me, and Jesus never disputed where he came from.

It seems to me that you are cherry-picking, albeit in a "modern" Christian way. But it is still cherry-picking! I grew up roman-catholic in Europe and I was very surprised when I found out that many American "born-again Christians" do not believe in the OT, but fully embrace the NT. I think this is a logical fallacy because Jesus never denied his "father".

Anyway, I don't believe in the Trinity either. But to each his own.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Fair enough. Pride is a strange thing ...

Originally posted by AllIsOne
Slippery slope my friend. The God that Jesus referred to as his "father" and described in the OT, is not a god I can accept. I know that Jesus "reset" everything, but still ... It's his father that troubles me, and Jesus never disputed where he came from.

Well you may not accept him, but you really do not have a choice unless you move to a different universe and leave the conciousness this one gave you behind. You are Judging Christ on the mistakes and false doctrines in the Old Testament. The first thing Christ did at the Sermon on the Mount was explain all the false teachings in the old testament. You know, "You have heard it said an eye for an eye. Well I tell you love your enemies", or something like that. I posted it somewhere if you are interested. I believe it was my Anti-Christ thread, last page.

It seems to me that you are cherry-picking, albeit in a "modern" Christian way. But it is still cherry-picking! I grew up roman-catholic in Europe and I was very surprised when I found out that many American "born-again Christians" do not believe in the OT, but fully embrace the NT. I think this is a logical fallacy because Jesus never denied his "father".

Cherry Picking? I gave you the whole sermon! LOL Most people will just pull out a sentence and explain how it means you are the devil and going to hell.

Why would Christ deny his Father? Can you deny your own conciousness?

Anyway, I don't believe in the Trinity either. But to each his own.

The Father - Your Consciousness, who you are underneath all the mess you have learned here.
The Son - Your Ego, who you are to the world
The Holy Ghost - The spirit that animates your body.

You do not have these three things?

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

Slippery slope my friend. The God that Jesus referred to as his "father" and described in the OT, is not a god I can accept. I know that Jesus "reset" everything, but still ... It's his father that troubles me, and Jesus never disputed where he came from.

It seems to me that you are cherry-picking, albeit in a "modern" Christian way. But it is still cherry-picking! I grew up roman-catholic in Europe and I was very surprised when I found out that many American "born-again Christians" do not believe in the OT, but fully embrace the NT. I think this is a logical fallacy because Jesus never denied his "father".

Anyway, I don't believe in the Trinity either. But to each his own.

Surely God in the OT was talking to a nation, Jesus to the individual.

Imho The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

reply to post by dizzylizzy


sounds like you may have read a thing or two or I'm misreading something, Lord knows it would'nt be the first time but maybe the second, no seriously I'm generally that perfect

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

may find these interesting

He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

reply to post by IAMIAM

The Father - Your Consciousness, who you are underneath all the mess you have learned here.
The Son - Your Ego, who you are to the world
The Holy Ghost - The spirit that animates your body.

You do not have these three things?

That is a nice interpretation with lots of omissions (the OT-god was an oppressive, murderous thug who favored one people). We can bend anything to fit our story. I see a lot of New Age thinking in your post, interwoven with Christ consciousness. It's a nice hybridization, but definitely your own concocted brew.

You can bend it all you want, but the omniscient, non-loving God of the OT and Jesus don't mix. Apologists have to suspend logic to explain it and that is what you do. You declare one part of the same story (bible) obsolete, or false (OT) while you fully accept the other (NT) ... ???

Originally posted by AllIsOne
That is a nice interpretation with lots of omissions (the OT-god was an oppressive, murderous thug who favored one people). We can bend anything to fit our story. I see a lot of New Age thinking in your post, interwoven with Christ consciousness. It's a nice hybridization, but definitely your own concocted brew.

You can bend it all you want, but the omniscient, non-loving God of the OT and Jesus don't mix. Apologists have to suspend logic to explain it and that is what you do. You declare one part of the same story (bible) obsolete, or false (OT) while you fully accept the other (NT) ... ???

Don't blame me my friend. Christ himself said the law and the prophet were up to the time of John and that he was bringing the Kingdom of God and God's law.

I did not say this and don't put the credit on me. This is Christ's work. I am simply a follower.

Let those who want to be judged by the old testament be judged by the old testament. I live by the Law of God. I am sin free because I do not violate his law. I love everyone.

That is all there is to it. It is not some mystical razzle dazzle where you need to come join my cult and drink from a goat head. There are not seven levels of mystical enlightenment where you must tip your hat to the sacred angel along the way.

I AM the Son of Man.

That is enough for me.

I am King in this heavenly Kingdom, so are you if you believe I am and that Christ is a King, and that his law to love one another is the law of the land.

If you don't buy it, if you do not want to be free, keep the laws and govenrment you have. I am not here to convince you.

I am simply spreading the word and looking for fellow Kings and Queens.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by dizzylizzy

 

sounds like you may have read a thing or two or I'm misreading something, Lord knows it would'nt be the first time but maybe the second, no seriously I'm generally that perfect

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

may find these interesting

He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

edit on 20-2-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)

I haven't seen you around in a while my friend. I hope all has been well with you. Wonderful addition to the thread!

How ya diggin the changes in the world so far? Hang on! The party is just getting started...

With Love,

Your Brother

In order for humanity to ascend to the next level, Religious fanatics still holding on to OLD beliefs that they don't even understand will either have to open there minds or pass on. It's all EVOLUTION. The strong will survive. Not the people who think some magical god is going to protect them. ALLAH IS REAL, BUT ITS NOT WHO THEY THINK! That is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

Originally posted by MrEuphoric1
In order for humanity to ascend to the next level, Religious fanatics still holding on to OLD beliefs that they don't even understand will either have to open there minds or pass on. It's all EVOLUTION. The strong will survive. Not the people who think some magical god is going to protect them. ALLAH IS REAL, BUT ITS NOT WHO THEY THINK! That is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.

Well if you know a Muslim who is very familiar with the Quran and fluid in both English and Arabic, I am looking for one.

I need someone familiar with that material so we can do some cross comparison and maybe get a common message out to the Arab world.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


My dear friend, you obviously are unable to see the circular reasoning you employ to defend a text. You have yet to address my points rather than just say "Jesus said so ...". That is a cop out.

Originally posted by AllIsOne
My dear friend, you obviously are unable to see the circular reasoning you employ to defend a text. You have yet to address my points rather than just say "Jesus said so ...". That is a cop out.

There is no cop out and the only circle is the one you keep making. You say you cannot accept the teachings of Christ because of the Old Testament. I say well Christ denounced the laws in the Old Testament. You say that is not good enough because of the Old Testament.

You are the one taking it in circles.

It is simple. So simple a child could understand it, and I say this as a child myself, LOVE ONE ANOTHER.

If you cannot see the logic and reasoning in a Loving one another, well... well, I do not know what to say to that right now. I hope you see it soon.

That's it, take it or leave it. No circles, just a straight line into tomorrow.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Why do you suppose it is necessary to be "commanded" to love?? When asked for the first commandment of all by the Pharisees Jesus spaketh thus:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind and with all thy strength, this is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself."

Love happens without divine edict. Reflect upon the world of the Americas found by the conquistadores. "damned wantlessness" and such. Were natives instructed to love their mothers and brothers and sisters? Animals? Nature? I bet not. It welled up in them, as in us, it supports our very being, we're soaking in it.

What patriarchy has done by way of the Abrahamic delusions is rip the capacity to love spontaneously out of us and sold it back for a price: aquiescence to itself. This is exactly how all manner of evil can be perpetrated by humans, we have been deceived. Shattered empathy with each other and the planet.

I won't have a part of it. Moderate Christians; decent, kind people are in collusion with their co-believers whether they like it or not. Sorry.

Originally posted by Pilot
Why do you suppose it is necessary to be "commanded" to love?? When asked for the first commandment of all by the Pharisees Jesus spaketh thus:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind and with all thy strength, this is the first and greatest commandment, and the second is thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself."

Jesus was speaking to a people who had turned their back on the divine commandment to love. It isn't a commandment that needs to be written in stone. It is a commandment spoken in the heart the day you are born. We all know love and long for it at birth. It is as we get older that we turn our backs on that divine commandment as our hearts grow cold through the trials and tribulations of life. Jesus was reminding them of what they had forgotten.

Originally posted by Pilot
Love happens without divine edict. Reflect upon the world of the Americas found by the conquistadores. "damned wantlessness" and such. Were natives instructed to love their mothers and brothers and sisters? Animals? Nature? I bet not. It welled up in them, as in us, it supports our very being, we're soaking in it.

The Natives will have their day for the suffering they have endured. The conquistadors had nothing to do with Christ. They were all about material wealth.

Originally posted by Pilot
What patriarchy has done by way of the Abrahamic delusions is rip the capacity to love spontaneously out of us and sold it back for a price: aquiescence to itself. This is exactly how all manner of evil can be perpetrated by humans, we have been deceived. Shattered empathy with each other and the planet.

You are correct, many things have been done in Christ's name that are contradictory to his lessons. These things will be made right. He did warn that many would come in his name and twist his teachings. I am sorry for what others have done in his name. Those who did were usurpers, not followers of Christ.

Originally posted by Pilot
I won't have a part of it. Moderate Christians; decent, kind people are in collusion with their co-believers whether they like it or not. Sorry.

I am not a Christian, I am a follower of Christ. There is a difference, but even if that label offends you then I can part with that too and simply say I AM.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Lucifer777

I have had a liftime of very bizzare experiences which a religionist might define as "spiritual" experiences, however I have simply learned not to trust such experiences as being "real," any more than my dreams are real, since such experiences vary from person to person, from region to region and from religion to religion.

so you don't "trust" those experiences as any more "real" than dreams ........but you completely trust and have confidence in the regular everyday "normal" mode of experience?

Frankly I found the regular everyday mode with its subjective bias bubbles as much an imaginary illusuory dream as the dream world in sleep.....

Such experience have however been very interesting and they help me to understand the mind of a person who suffering from religious psychosis and delusions

again that would make it "psychosis and delusions" from this regular everyday normal reality consciousness perspective ...which to me was found as an illusion and dream, i.e. allegory of the cave.

Since I have never been a Christian my experiences tended to confirm my essential "Crowleyanty" whereas a Christian might find their "Jesus faith" to be confirmed by such experiences and similarly with a devotee of Ganesha, Hanunam or any of the numerous deities and cults. Such experiences my seem to confirm one's own particular name brand of cultism, but in fact they are a very unreliable means of doing that, even if it seems otherwise, just as the hallucinations of schizophrenics seem very real to them.

the heart of them all is the Infinite Consciousness ...the source of all things. There is no differences in that Ocean no matter which path is taken to get there. All differences are simply philosophical masterbation.

Hallucinations are as real as any other experience to the person with schizophrenia. As many as 70% hear voices, while a lesser number have visual hallucinations. –Auditory hallucinations can be either inside the person’s head or externally. When external, they sound as real as an actual voice. Sometimes they come from no apparent source, other times they come from real people who don’t actually say anything, other times a person will hallucinate sounds. –When people hear voices inside their heads, it is as if their inner thoughts are no longer alone. The new voices can talk to each other, talk to themselves, or comment on the person’s actions. The majority of the time the voices are negative.

I mean thats cool if this is what you think it is. No offense but it seems like a "safety harness" to void all possibilities of God and enlightenment. I can bring to you a man experiencing this Ocean of consciousness and you can give him all the psych-skitzo drugs in the world and wont even effect him......

No. I am not advocating that we round up all the religious people and institutionalize them. That would be plain stupid. However, what I am attempting to show is that religious thought operates like a mental illness. Religious thought must be challenged no matter how much they will kick and scream about their feelings being hurt because of it. ”The time of respecting beliefs of this sort is long past”-Sam Harris

The Infinite is prior to beliefs..... its just a matter of time before science proves this.

Again no offense but in the face of the source of all consciousness ....to merely break it all down to sktizo-illusions or beliefs is extremely weak.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

thanks, just kind of chugging along doing alot of reading, which admittedly can be addicting especially here, where there is much more than my daily recommended dosage of research, entertainment and laughs, I'm sure...good thing the net can also be a good tool for some spare change.. as for the times, hard to say with any absoluteness other than it all working out for the good

take care