WikiLeaks: Israel's secret hotline to the man tipped to replace Mubarak

WikiLeaks: Israel's secret hotline to the man tipped to replace Mubarak

www.telegr aph.co.uk

The new vice-president of Egypt, Omar Suleiman, is a long-standing favourite of Israel's who spoke daily to the Tel Aviv government via a secret "hotline" to Cairo, leaked documents disclose.
Mr Suleiman, who is widely tipped to take over from Hosni Mubarak as president, was named as Israel's preferred candidate for the job after discussions with American officials in 2008.
As a key figure working for Middle East peace, he once suggested that Israeli troops would be "welcome" to invade Egypt

(visit the link for the full news article)

I find this kind of stuff pretty telling. The new vice president has the backing of Isreal and American. It all looks pretty buttoned up. Out with the old and back in with the old.
Why cant they just leave the people to choose for themselves. Im sure they are capabe of nominating there own politcal system without interference from the west. We are always claiming to want to bring democracy to places. Evidently ownly certain types of democracy to certain places.
I dont think this is going to work. Protest towards america and suspicion of the west is growing. When the word hits that Mr Suleiman is sympathetic to isreal the ball with start rolling again.


www.telegr aph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Only ignorance will make this news. OF COURSE the Israelis and Egyptians have daily contact. This is at every level. I just happen to know a field commander, a major, in the IDF whose job it is to call her Egyptian counterpoint every single day and discuss the border situation. They are on a first-name basis. This is how it works:

"Good Morning, Mohammad. How is the weather today. Hot? Ha ha ha. Say, we have a failure in the border fence at Sector Three, milepost just shy of 95, so we'll be having a couple of trucks out there to fix it--two military and some contractor vehicles. They are just assessing and replacing and will be there at least half the day. I'll call up if they have to stick around longer. How about your side?"

The border between Israel and Egypt is busy. Thousand of people go through it daily. Dozens of tourist busses. all kinds of commerce. In order to keep this economy moving, they need to keep the peace. In order to keep the peace, they need to talk. The "Hotline" approach was started in the ffifties between the USA and the USSR precisely to provide a way to talk instantly to keep a small incident from escalating into a major one.

This is perfectly proper and reasonable and should be cause for celebration rather than concern.

reply to post by purplemer


This is huge.

This indicates that the 'Shock Doctrine' is still being used in the middle east as we speak today. Suleiman has been selected by TPTB to take over as the next dictator, to prop up the Israeli status quo. It could be then that the riots and revolution we've seen in the middle east is all fabricated and sparked by CIA plants - much like Panama, Ecuador, Venezuela etc.

The only problem with revolutions is that they are very difficult to control once they take on a life of their own. I think Suleiman will fail, and a third option will have to be considered. I actually think the CIA could support the Muslim Brotherhood - much like they supported the Ayatollahs and Saddam Hussein. There's dark magic happening here.

The Revnenant.

Originally posted by schuyler
Only ignorance will make this news. OF COURSE the Israelis and Egyptians have daily contact. This is at every level. I just happen to know a field commander, a major, in the IDF whose job it is to call her Egyptian counterpoint every single day and discuss the border situation. They are on a first-name basis. This is how it works:

"Good Morning, Mohammad. How is the weather today. Hot? Ha ha ha. Say, we have a failure in the border fence at Sector Three, milepost just shy of 95, so we'll be having a couple of trucks out there to fix it--two military and some contractor vehicles. They are just assessing and replacing and will be there at least half the day. I'll call up if they have to stick around longer. How about your side?"

The border between Israel and Egypt is busy. Thousand of people go through it daily. Dozens of tourist busses. all kinds of commerce. In order to keep this economy moving, they need to keep the peace. In order to keep the peace, they need to talk. The "Hotline" approach was started in the ffifties between the USA and the USSR precisely to provide a way to talk instantly to keep a small incident from escalating into a major one.

This is perfectly proper and reasonable and should be cause for celebration rather than concern.

How can this be proper and reasonable. The people of egypt want there own elected political structure not another mubarak who tortures he own people and is on the payroll of the west

He's also the hands-on favorite of the US to "replace" Mubarak (i.e., maintain the status quo). Obviously the US and Israel are only willing to entertain "democracy" when it suits them.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ed2e94ca7008.png[/atsimg]

Originally posted by schuyler
Only ignorance will make this news. OF COURSE the Israelis and Egyptians have daily contact. This is at every level. I just happen to know a field commander, a major, in the IDF whose job it is to call her Egyptian counterpoint every single day and discuss the border situation. They are on a first-name basis. This is how it works:

"Good Morning, Mohammad. How is the weather today. Hot? Ha ha ha. Say, we have a failure in the border fence at Sector Three, milepost just shy of 95, so we'll be having a couple of trucks out there to fix it--two military and some contractor vehicles. They are just assessing and replacing and will be there at least half the day. I'll call up if they have to stick around longer. How about your side?"

The border between Israel and Egypt is busy. Thousand of people go through it daily. Dozens of tourist busses. all kinds of commerce. In order to keep this economy moving, they need to keep the peace. In order to keep the peace, they need to talk. The "Hotline" approach was started in the ffifties between the USA and the USSR precisely to provide a way to talk instantly to keep a small incident from escalating into a major one.

This is perfectly proper and reasonable and should be cause for celebration rather than concern.

Hurray for common sense! Why on earth would the Israelis or Americans not want to support someone moderate?

To the Israelis it could be a matter of survival. They are already surrounded by enemies who want to do nothing more than "drive them into the sea", and Eqypt arming up for a war with Israel could be the final nail in the coffin.

A Islamic fundamentalist Eqypt would be an existantal threat to Israel.

reply to post by nightbringr

Hurray for common sense! Why on earth would the Israelis or Americans not want to support someone moderate? To the Israelis it could be a matter of survival. They are already surrounded by enemies who want to do nothing more than "drive them into the sea", and Eqypt arming up for a war with Israel could be the final nail in the coffin. A Islamic fundamentalist Eqypt would be an existantal threat to Israel.

Yes hurray for the moderate action of israel that along with egypt has blockaded palastine and kept the people of palastine in near total chaos and poverty. If you think our continuing meddling in the governments of other nations to stop them having democracy is somehow going to bring a peaceful solution to the area. think again. It has not worked up to now, what makes you think it is going to work in the future....

kx

hopefully the Egyptian people rage on until this guy is dead, and after that they march on Israel and obliterate those Zionist fascists off the map...he said that civil disobedience was not to be tolerated, and anyone who believes that deserves to die horribly and burn in hell...

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Hurray for common sense! Why on earth would the Israelis or Americans not want to support someone moderate? To the Israelis it could be a matter of survival. They are already surrounded by enemies who want to do nothing more than "drive them into the sea", and Eqypt arming up for a war with Israel could be the final nail in the coffin. A Islamic fundamentalist Eqypt would be an existantal threat to Israel.

Yes hurray for the moderate action of israel that along with egypt has blockaded palastine and kept the people of palastine in near total chaos and poverty. If you think our continuing meddling in the governments of other nations to stop them having democracy is somehow going to bring a peaceful solution to the area. think again. It has not worked up to now, what makes you think it is going to work in the future....

kx

Hmmmm, as i recall it hasnt been called "Palestine" since 1948ish? Perhaps Hama is the cause for the misery in Gaza?

If that wasnt true, then why is the West Bank doing so much better? Perhaps because they have a much more reasonable leadership who is willing to work with Israel on matter of security and more.

how come im not surprise by this news ...

need to vomit again

reply to post by nightbringr


what makes you think the west bank is doing better. this is the reason palastine is in such a state

Israel told U.S. officials in 2008 it would keep Gaza's economy "on the brink of collapse" while avoiding a humanitarian crisis

The people of palastine have put all there cards on the table, go and have a look at the palastine papers if you are not aware of what concessions they have offered. the people of palastine deserve a country to live in like the rest of the people of the world.
With due respect i dont understand why you think it correct for isreal and america to interfere with the polical process of egypt. The justification you seem to propose is you think it is fair because they might become fundamental. I am correct in thinking that. Do you muslims have the right to govern their own countries or is it just egypt your are refering too?

kx

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Hurray for common sense! Why on earth would the Israelis or Americans not want to support someone moderate? To the Israelis it could be a matter of survival. They are already surrounded by enemies who want to do nothing more than "drive them into the sea", and Eqypt arming up for a war with Israel could be the final nail in the coffin. A Islamic fundamentalist Eqypt would be an existantal threat to Israel.

Yes hurray for the moderate action of israel that along with egypt has blockaded palastine and kept the people of palastine in near total chaos and poverty. If you think our continuing meddling in the governments of other nations to stop them having democracy is somehow going to bring a peaceful solution to the area. think again. It has not worked up to now, what makes you think it is going to work in the future....

kx

Hmmmm, as i recall it hasnt been called "Palestine" since 1948ish? Perhaps Hama is the cause for the misery in Gaza?

If that wasnt true, then why is the West Bank doing so much better? Perhaps because they have a much more reasonable leadership who is willing to work with Israel on matter of security and more.

It's still called Palestine by every neighbouring country in the region. A matter of survival? You've got to be kidding me - it's everyone else in the region that's under threat from Israel, no one else has anything close to their military technology and it's pretty funny that they're afraid of their own survival when they're literally trying to slowly destroy and displace an entire race. Egypt could never be a threat, they dropped their nuclear programme a long time ago and wouldn't be allowed to resume it if they were seen to have an anti-Zionist stance.

Who said the West Bank is doing much better? Even if it's doing better, it's not doing well. If it is doing better in the short-term, it's because, like you say, they're more willing to bend over and allow Israel to build settlements and slowly drain the Palestinian people of their land - which is terrible in the long term. How is it 'reasonable' to support policies that help Israel forcefully cement their takeover of Palestinian land, destroy their livelihoods and evict or kill them whenever they choose? How is it rational to say that the Palestinians don't have the right to fight for what's theirs? Or that it's fair to murder their unarmed old women and young children sporadically on a regular basis, and sometimes in mass amounts - using illegal weapons such as white phosphorous - every once in a while? Did you forget about what they did to Lebanon a few years ago? You'd think that given the history of the Israeli people (the ones who migrated from Europe), they'd be the least likely people to be acting in the way that they do - but the Zionists are convinced it's their right to occupy that land. It isn't. And if you're going to occupy it, at least be civil.

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
hopefully the Egyptian people rage on until this guy is dead, and after that they march on Israel and obliterate those Zionist fascists off the map...he said that civil disobedience was not to be tolerated, and anyone who believes that deserves to die horribly and burn in hell...

we will all either learn to live together or learn to die together.....i know what i would choose...

kx

reply to post by purplemer

Why is even a Palestinian crisis? If the neighboring Arab countries cared so much about Palestinian refugees why do they not absorb them or allow them to become Jordanian, Syrian, Eqyptian or Lebanese citizens?

The Israelis have never once turned away a Jew looking to relocate to Israel, yet the Arabs keep the Palstinians in refugee camps, maintaining the status quo. Why is this? Perhaps to make Israel look bad? If they actually cared they would absorb these unfortunate people.

And Israel is simply defending themselves like any sovereign nation has a right to. If Hamas insists on launching rockets into a sovereign nation, they should certainly expect retaliation. If a terrorist organization started launching rockets into the USA from Northern Mexico, I'm pretty sure the US would retaliate, and rightfully so. A nation should be expected to protect it's citizens.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by purplemer

 

Why is even a Palestinian crisis? If the neighboring Arab countries cared so much about Palestinian refugees why do they not absorb them or allow them to become Jordanian, Syrian, Eqyptian or Lebanese citizens?

The Israelis have never once turned away a Jew looking to relocate to Israel, yet the Arabs keep the Palstinians in refugee camps, maintaining the status quo. Why is this? Perhaps to make Israel look bad? If they actually cared they would absorb these unfortunate people.

And Israel is simply defending themselves like any sovereign nation has a right to. If Hamas insists on launching rockets into a sovereign nation, they should certainly expect retaliation. If a terrorist organization started launching rockets into the USA from Northern Mexico, I'm pretty sure the US would retaliate, and rightfully so. A nation should be expected to protect it's citizens.

edit on 8-2-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

with due respect why the hell should they have to relocate, they have lived there a very long time. It is there home. they too have the right to defend themselves and should be recognized as a sorveign nation too.
I agree with your statement that if a terrorist organization launched an attack on the usa that the usa would have a right to defend itself. Is this not what is happening. They are defending themselves from the continuing attacks from isreal. many of which have been deemed illegal under international law....

kx

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by purplemer

 

Why is even a Palestinian crisis? If the neighboring Arab countries cared so much about Palestinian refugees why do they not absorb them or allow them to become Jordanian, Syrian, Eqyptian or Lebanese citizens?

The Israelis have never once turned away a Jew looking to relocate to Israel, yet the Arabs keep the Palstinians in refugee camps, maintaining the status quo. Why is this? Perhaps to make Israel look bad? If they actually cared they would absorb these unfortunate people.

And Israel is simply defending themselves like any sovereign nation has a right to. If Hamas insists on launching rockets into a sovereign nation, they should certainly expect retaliation. If a terrorist organization started launching rockets into the USA from Northern Mexico, I'm pretty sure the US would retaliate, and rightfully so. A nation should be expected to protect it's citizens.

edit on 8-2-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Gaza Blockade

A lot of Arab countries do take Palestinians, when they are able to leave the country - I know many Jordanians, for example, that are originally Palestinian. And if you want to talk about 'retaliation':

en.wikipedia.org...

Just compare the number of Israeli Casualties (10 combatants and 3 civilians) to the Palestinian ones (330/275 combatants and 762 civilians) - also take some time to compare the numbers wounded if you'd like. Hamas are not necessarily a 'terrorist organisation', they were democratically elected into power at this time.


And you say that if the US was attacked by a terrorist group, that they would be expected to retaliate? What if they were attacked by Israel? USS Liberty Incident

reply to post by arollingstone


Ive never said Israel is without blame, but neither are the Palestinians.

Someone earlier stated that the Palestinians have made their case for peace and want to move forward, and while this may be the case with the Palestinian Authority, it is not so for Hamas.

Hamas has as a main objective the complete destruction of Israel as a state. How could the Israelis possibly bargain with such an entity? I would never make a deal with someone who has sworn to kill me, but refuses to retract that statement during negotiations. Sounds like suicide, does it not?

Yes, the Palestinians lost many more than Israel during the Gaza incursion, but what did they expect? Years of uninterupted rocket attacks on civilian targets might anger a much stronger, more powerful neighbour, but of course Hamas doesnt care if Palestinian civilians are killed. They know they can spin it to make big, bad Israel look worse. In fact, if Arollingstone would carefully read the Wikipedia article on the Gaza War he so kindly offered, he would see how Hamas wore civilian clothing and used human shields, shields they are sworn to protect.

Of course you will point out the atrocities commited by the Israelis, including white phospherous and whatnot, but again my point is neither side is without blame.

I would like to think if i was a Palestinian, i would like to migrate to a friendly neighbour country with my fellow Arab brothers and start life anew for my family and I, but alas, i would have to wait on a refugee list for years with little hope of finding a home among my Arab kin.

A quote from Wikipedias Palestinian Refugee page:

The Arab League has instructed its members to deny citizenship to Palestinian Arab refugees (or their descendants) "to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland".[44]

Tashbih Sayyed, a fellow of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, criticized Arab nations of making the children and grandchildren of Palestinian refugees second class citizens in Lebanon, Syria, or the Gulf States, and said that the refugees "cling to the illusion that defeating the Jews will restore their dignity".[45]

Jordan is the only country who has made an honest attempt to make room for their Arab brothers. Lebanon has gone the opposite direction and actually barred Palestinians from 73 job catagories, making them second class citizens in a manner no better than Israel.

For your perusal:
en.wikipedia.org...

The way the Arab community in general treat the Palestinians is nothing short of shameful, and it would appear at times they are no more than pawns.

Great! This would indeed strengthen Israeli ties, of course...
Hopefully not embarking on more Gaza sanctions but allowing them to ease but... maybe providing shelter in Egypt for the Palestinians..

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by arollingstone

 

Ive never said Israel is without blame, but neither are the Palestinians.

Someone earlier stated that the Palestinians have made their case for peace and want to move forward, and while this may be the case with the Palestinian Authority, it is not so for Hamas.

Hamas has as a main objective the complete destruction of Israel as a state. How could the Israelis possibly bargain with such an entity? I would never make a deal with someone who has sworn to kill me, but refuses to retract that statement during negotiations. Sounds like suicide, does it not?

Yes, the Palestinians lost many more than Israel during the Gaza incursion, but what did they expect? Years of uninterupted rocket attacks on civilian targets might anger a much stronger, more powerful neighbour, but of course Hamas doesnt care if Palestinian civilians are killed. They know they can spin it to make big, bad Israel look worse. In fact, if Arollingstone would carefully read the Wikipedia article on the Gaza War he so kindly offered, he would see how Hamas wore civilian clothing and used human shields, shields they are sworn to protect.

Of course you will point out the atrocities commited by the Israelis, including white phospherous and whatnot, but again my point is neither side is without blame.

I would like to think if i was a Palestinian, i would like to migrate to a friendly neighbour country with my fellow Arab brothers and start life anew for my family and I, but alas, i would have to wait on a refugee list for years with little hope of finding a home among my Arab kin.

A quote from Wikipedias Palestinian Refugee page:

The Arab League has instructed its members to deny citizenship to Palestinian Arab refugees (or their descendants) "to avoid dissolution of their identity and protect their right to return to their homeland".[44]

Tashbih Sayyed, a fellow of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, criticized Arab nations of making the children and grandchildren of Palestinian refugees second class citizens in Lebanon, Syria, or the Gulf States, and said that the refugees "cling to the illusion that defeating the Jews will restore their dignity".[45]

Jordan is the only country who has made an honest attempt to make room for their Arab brothers. Lebanon has gone the opposite direction and actually barred Palestinians from 73 job catagories, making them second class citizens in a manner no better than Israel.

For your perusal:
en.wikipedia.org...

The way the Arab community in general treat the Palestinians is nothing short of shameful, and it would appear at times they are no more than pawns.

edit on 8-2-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

You do make some fair points, Hamas would do well to take a less violent stance especially since Israel are bound to beat them in any form of armed conflict. I'm all for non-violence myself. It would be good to offer them even more accommodation into other Arab states, but their approach is sort of 'no, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians why should they be forced out?' - they don't want to admit defeat. I suppose it's a matter of Arab pride, and the Arabs are extremely sympathetic to the Palestinian cause. Many members of the Arab League raise huge sums of money and aid for the Palestinian refugees, and do let them stay in the country (that article that Wikipedia sourced about the Arab League highlights Saudi's policy towards the issue and mentions that there's 500 000 Palestinians living in Saudi) but like you say they don't receive the benefits of citizenship, which is a huge shame. Why not ask the Palestinian people what they want? At this point, they probably just want an opportunity to make a life for themselves.

Back to Hamas, they seem to think that if they aren't willing to throw their weight around, no one is going to. And that's sort of why they use underhand tactics like dressing civilian clothing, because when you're a piranha trying to take on a shark you have to use guerilla warfare. It's the wrong approach, but it's sort of like landing in a punch in before you go down in the 3rd. However, It's not a case of 'well they did it first' because Hamas started firing rockets in response to the unreasonable and extended oppression of Gaza in the first place. Palestinian civilians are killed on a regular basis and that's been the case for decades. This article, albeit it's alternative press, highlights only some of the cases of brutality: Shot in the Head. When you've got a lion in a cage and you keep poking it, eventually it's going to lash out. And in any case, it's all relative - if Hamas is the problem then show some restraint and target them specifically, they take full advantage of the situation and blow everything to pieces because they've been given the opportunity to do so with less foreign criticism - their agenda is the total takeover of Gaza and the West Bank. During the bombardment of Gaza, Israel released a video on youtube of an aerial attack destroying what they claimed was a truck full of weapons or something, it turned out to be some poor guys livelihood with nothing to do with Hamas. They even conduct covert operations abroad and murder Hamas officials in foreign sovereign nations, going beyond all forms of law - but they get away with it every single time! They know they can do whatever they want, for some reason no one ever really calls them on it - when was the last time Israel were sanctioned? I mean, the US has this huge agenda against Iran but they don't even have any reason to do so - apart from mistranslated quotes from Ahmadinejad whose a puppet (not to the US, in the 'figurehead' sense) anyway. Yet the whole media jumps onto the 'Iranium' bandwagon.

In any case, you seem sympathetic too and what we seem to agree on is that the issue is the plight of the Palestinian people themselves - the poor families stuck in refugee camps, in a virtual prison - they're caught in the middle and they're getting screwed over big time by everyone, including their politicians. I remember during the world cup, seeing pictures of families sat round the TV with the football on sat in a tiny open air tent and pictures like that break your heart, because that's the only shred of normalcy they had at the time and it was temporary at best. There's a general sense of apathy all over the world at the moment, people prioritise their compassion - one great example was in the UK recently I saw this homeless girl sat by the ATM machine, usually the busiest in town, and literally no one was using it because they didn't want risk getting into conversation or being asked for money. When did we become so cold? Or how, at least, are we not warmer by now?