Talibanization of Fallujah

Interesting article about the situation in Fallujah since American forces turned over control to local "Iraqi Police". (Read)

"By intimidation, by force of arms and with full support of the mosques, Fallujah is now a haven of order and security in Iraq. American troops are out, as are foreigners. Strict Islamic law is in, and the gun-toting leaders see their city as a model for the rest of the country. It's not exactly what America had in mind."

Sharia law applies and "Fallujah is mujahideen country: it is where the resistance undertakes military training, hides weapons, contacts foreign fighters and organizes operations against a variety of targets in and around Baghdad."

Pehaps this is a preview of what Iraq will look like in the future? Just how are we suppose to "bring democracy" into a situation like this?

I think every country has its cities where everything is worse in that specific area. It's going to be impossible to clean up the whole country, but we can't let fallujah turn into a camp for these terrorists. I understand we left fallujah, but if this continues, Iraqi politicians will have to do something to control their growth. I don't know what can be done without military involvement.

People just don't get it if we were to leave enough alone we wouldn't breed terrorism....the more we "fight" the more we are going to breed and the more enemies we are going to make...The whole country is probably in the state of "falujah" but Fox or the networks aren't going to report it.

edit-spelling

[edit on 7/14/2004 by SoaringFalcon]

Frankly, we can't bring "instant democracy" to the place... just as they couldn't bring "instant Talibanization" to America. The culture is very different, and it's been established through thousands of years. Look at the difficulty Russia has had after less than a hundred years of communism. We are NOT going to turn Iraq into Instant Democracy, no matter how badly the administration would like for it to happen.

Originally posted by SoaringFalcon
People just don't get it if we were to leave enough alone we wouldn't breed terrorism...

I agree. But, that being said how long before the US military decides to kick this hornet's nest (Fallujah) once again? You just know they are going to. They can't help it.

Originally posted by Gools
Pehaps this is a preview of what Iraq will look like in the future? Just how are we suppose to "bring democracy" into a situation like this?

We? Just curious - what is Canada doing to bring democracy to Iraq? Not meant to flame, but other than criticism of the US, I don't see a lot of Canadian involvement.

: Originally posted by SoaringFalcon
People just don't get it if we were to leave enough alone we wouldn't breed terrorism...

from Gools: I agree. But, that being said how long before the US military decides to kick this hornet's nest (Fallujah) once again? You just know they are going to. They can't help it.

So if we just leave them alone, they will go home and forget all about the jihads they have sworn against the west, correct? Just like they were minding their own business on 9/11, eh?

I don't think so.
:shk:

Well that's bad. But Iraq cant do anything because they dont have a military. Perhaps nukes? Kidding. Bush will probably go back... very stupid move.

Originally posted by jsobecky I don't see a lot of Canadian involvement.
...

So if we just leave them alone, they will go home and forget all about the jihads they have sworn against the west, correct?

No direct Canadian involvement inside Iraq. What we did to support the US was send troops to Afghanistan. That freed up US forces to go to Iraq. That is how our government supported yours. Without getting directly involved in Iraq, which would have been political suicide here.

And to answer your second question, nope! I don't think you can trace Islamic radicalism back to one specific event. It has been building over the last couple of decades. The CIA itself calls it blowback for US policy in the region over the last decades. I don't see a way of appeasing these people anytime soon. I'm afraid the horse has left the barn on that one and it has become a part of the global political landscape for good.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by Gools
Pehaps this is a preview of what Iraq will look like in the future? Just how are we suppose to "bring democracy" into a situation like this?

We? Just curious - what is Canada doing to bring democracy to Iraq? Not meant to flame, but other than criticism of the US, I don't see a lot of Canadian involvement.

: Originally posted by SoaringFalcon
People just don't get it if we were to leave enough alone we wouldn't breed terrorism...

from Gools: I agree. But, that being said how long before the US military decides to kick this hornet's nest (Fallujah) once again? You just know they are going to. They can't help it.

So if we just leave them alone, they will go home and forget all about the jihads they have sworn against the west, correct? Just like they were minding their own business on 9/11, eh?

I don't think so.
:shk:

You just can't leave them "alone" of course a national apology and aid would be nessisary to quell this hatred for the west. You have to remember OBL and the Muhidajeen were once allies of the US as well as Iraq. Our oil agenda has become quite apparent and the US will stop at nothing to get it,even if it costs american lives. One key thing that many of US forget is that the fight fire with fire method in middle eastern policy is not smart considering the majority of the region considers us the "great satan". Even if you call it "liberation" in their eyes it will not warrant the unnessiary loss of life. I say we leave them be and let the iraqi government handle it.

This city can not stand for the rest of the nation. If the current administration allows this to happen than the whole concept of democracy will collaspe.
A dictator will be replaced by a religious leader which is totally unacceptable. Dictatorships,Monarchies and theocracies are not in the best interest of those they govern. They become eventually tyranical and those not in the privlidge class suffer.
Look throughout the world and you be the judge. Any nation worth talking about that has become Democratic, at one time in there history, was ruled under some form of oppression.

Originally posted by flycatch Dictatorships,Monarchies and theocracies are not in the best interest of those they govern.

A democratic plutocracy is no better in my opinion. That is what we have here in Canada and the US. Governments run by big business types. I certainly do not beleive that old addage that "anybody can grow up to be leader". In today's politics you need connections and lots of $$$.

As for Fallujah/Iraq, I and many others forsee chaos for a long time!

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 7/15/2004 by Gools]

May be US should divide the country and make Baghdad the new Iraqi country because obviously US have not control of the rest of that nation but obviously only Baghdad. Right?

That is a Middle East country and wanted or not Islam rule, and wanted or not, will never be democratic, yes, maybe something can be work to resemble democracy, but at the end will be Islam rule.

Better to let the Kurds make their own country if it all falls apart. Let the Shia and Sunni's start killing each other for the rest of country. Keep them tied up for years.

Gools says

As for Fallujah/Iraq, I and many others forsee chaos for a long time!

I agree completely, Gools. Please see my post Iraq Insurgency Larger Than Thought for an explanation of why the Iraq War is an unwinnable guerrilla war.

A recent development is reported here: US Strike Targets Fallujah Militants