Creation vs. Intelligent Design vs. Aliens vs. Evolution vs. Atheism

reply to post by randyvs

The Bible is loaded with B.S.and fairytales according to ingrate academics, who don't appreciate anything an eyewitness has to say.

And scientists do that for very good reasons. The human perception is seriously flawed and is not the most accurate way to assess reality.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/10ed9533050a.jpg[/atsimg]

Point proven

You pay no credit to your own ancestors.

Says who?? Some of them achieved extraordinary things for their time. Columbus sailing to the US, the pyramids, some of Mayan astronomy, it's all remarkable for its time...but if you compare their level of knowledge with ours, it's tiny. Impressive FOR THEIR TIME, but not compared to today's technology/knowledge about how stuff works.

Take the Mayans for example. They believed the universe to only be 90 million years old...which we now know today is complete hogwash.

I suggest a large difference between you and any sense of compassion and heritage.

What has compassion to do with that??

That's a similarly ridiculous statement like "how can you be morally good without following XYZ religion?".

All you have to offer are some scientific guidelines. Guess what ? They don't rate in society as high as judicial process.

They are 2 entirely different things. What you're saying is like "this hammer is a lot higher rated when trying to drive in nails compared to this apple".

Again you people have no right to ridicule, or label anything B.S. under your simplified parameters.

Of course we can if we are able to objectively debunk doctrine or scripture. Why not? It's a fee country.

If someone tells me the earth is only 10k years old, I will laugh a litte on the inside, and then try to explain him why that claim is beyond laughable. I will present hard evidence why that's the case, objective evidence. If he still sticks with the 10k years lunatic idea, I will start laughing on the outside

Originally posted by mamelukkikala
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Please provide pictures and translations of Mayan texts that say clearly that they believed the earth was flat. And no, a statement from a super-reliable archeologist won't cut it. I've seen that statement so many times, yet no evidence. Pics or it didn't happen. I'll be glad to be proven wrong.

These people mapped the stars. They were better astrologists than we are today. How could they do that if they didn't even know the shape of earth? Like someone said here before, very little to none Mayan texts have survived. Most of the "information" we know about them is just guessing by these so called researchers. It's a common belief they sacrified people. What proof they have? Apparently they had altars that look like they could've been used to sacrifice! Great job Watson!

Scouffers
This is way true. Then you only have to prance your little behinds over to the book of Enoch. Scripture lasbored over for thousands of years . I submit that labor, as evidence to your little worlds and the rest. It is by the power of him you seem to hate, that we have these writings that mean squat, to the very people who should very simply, be astounded that we even have them. The book of Enoch explains evrything as to how this knowledge was gained by early man. Your wants, as far as them being not taken seriously will simply never be realised because of your fallible quackery.


Mr X
Columbus you mean the guy who recorded seeing UFOs inthe bermuda triangle.? There goes his credibility.
Why arn't you calling his labors B.S. partner?

reply to post by randyvs


Proof of the Mayan beliefs was posted earlier in the thread...and I'm not really sure what you're talking about regarding Bermuda triangle

reply to post by MrXYZ


WHAT is reality, other than that which is percieved by human beings?

Even Einstien, who's name happens to anagram to ten alien branis said, "I know of two things that go to infinity.
The universe and the stupidity of man. I'm not real sure about the universe". I think he was right in line.

reply to post by randyvs


Can you show me any evidence to verify that Enoch actually witnessed said events? How about anything to verify he actually wrote the book of Enoch (use of first person isn't evidence, as I could write the book of Jefferson in first...even though I'm not Jefferson). What can you show me to add credibility to Enoch's account? I propose he was tripping on ergot infested grain.... You have anything to suggest otherwise?

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by randyvs

 

Can you show me any evidence to verify that Enoch actually witnessed said events? How about anything to verify he actually wrote the book of Enoch (use of first person isn't evidence, as I could write the book of Jefferson in first...even though I'm not Jefferson). What can you show me to add credibility to Enoch's account? I propose he was tripping on ergot infested grain.... You have anything to suggest otherwise?

The book.

A pack of lies about the master of all life, wouldn't make it very far. Go ahead and write your book and lets see what happens to you and yours.

reply to post by randyvs

WHAT is reality, other than that which is percieved by human beings?

There's soooo much we can't perceive and where we have to use technology. And we KNOW our perception is flawed, so it's not something we should rely on. THAT's why objectivity is so important.

"I know of two things that go to infinity.
The universe and the stupidity of man. I'm not real sure about the universe". I think he was right in line.

He probably said it right after someone told him the earth is only 10k years old

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by randyvs

 

Proof of the Mayan beliefs was posted earlier in the thread...and I'm not really sure what you're talking about regarding Bermuda triangle

Then google it for the love of God.

I think I've made my case in fine fashion. I see no more reason to bang my fist on brick walls. OUT!

reply to post by randyvs


What does Columbus seeing UFOs have to do with anything. It doesn't diminish the accomplishment of crossing the Atlantic in the least...just means he saw an unidentified flying object, or what he considered unidentified. Few years ago, there was a cop in LA reporting a "fast moving shiny object moving away from him" while he was chasing it.

Turns out it was VENUS, and he was driving up a zigzag road

So yeah, doesn't mean anything.

Also, regarding UFOs, Tyson has a very cool podcast about the subject: LINK

I see no more reason to bang my fist on brick walls. OUT!

In other words, you run out of arguments...and realize you can't argue your position rationally

reply to post by MrXYZ


Lol, yes. Astronomy, of course. Well, they figured out that a year has 365.2422 days. Their equipment; rocks and sticks. We wouldn't know much without computers.

I watched the video. Where is the proof I asked for? Wasn't there. Some random guy rambling about an ancient civilization because someone thinks they were smarter than him. Awesome evidence you got there dude! 2012 doomsday is made up by idiots. There's not a single mention from Mayans about the events of 2012.

I read through the links. A lot of text, zero evidence. Like I said; I want Mayan texts, written by Mayans. I accept nothing less. I don't care about the conclusions of some self-important know-it-all. I wanna see where he got his conclusions so I can make my own.

Oh, and Mayans believed that the first underworld was created 16.4 billion years ago.

And you said "mayan evidence were already posted" when someone agreed with me. Just lol.

I have no idea why you posted stuff from the bible.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by randyvs

 

What does Columbus seeing UFOs have to do with anything. It doesn't diminish the accomplishment of crossing the Atlantic in the least...just means he saw an unidentified flying object, or what he considered unidentified. Few years ago, there was a cop in LA reporting a "fast moving shiny object moving away from him" while he was chasing it.

Turns out it was VENUS, and he was driving up a zigzag road

So yeah, doesn't mean anything.

Also, regarding UFOs, Tyson has a very cool podcast about the subject: LINK

I see no more reason to bang my fist on brick walls. OUT!

In other words, you run out of arguments...and realize you can't argue your position rationally

edit on 8-2-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

More flawed interpritation? There goes your crdibility.

reply to post by mamelukkikala

There's not a single mention from Mayans about the events of 2012.

I even gave you the exact spot in the video, it's there

I read through the links. A lot of text, zero evidence. Like I said; I want Mayan texts, written by Mayans.

That request is beyond ridiculous. There's dozens of scientists who conducted studies and spent hours upon hours studying Mayan remains...and they publish books like the one I linked. It contains all the evidence you need. But you don't accept it because you want pictures??? Are you serious?

Oh, and Mayans believed that the first underworld was created 16.4 billion years ago.

They believed the universe to only be 90 million years old Your figure is hogwash...and the only places that even mention it are 2012 doomsday websites, which are all ridiculous and not credible anyway...

reply to post by randyvs


Awesome comeback, you really showed me

reply to post by MrXYZ


Yes, the spot you gave me was a black guy rambling about 2012. And?

Ridiculous? So I should just accept everything someone else tells me, but won't tell me how this information was received? Umm, no. The most reasonable thing to ask, is pictures and direct translations. Where are they?

To be fair, your 90 million has just as much evidence as my 16.4 billion.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by randyvs

 

Awesome comeback, you really showed me

Well I just call'em like I see'em.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by randyvs

 

Can you show me any evidence to verify that Enoch actually witnessed said events? How about anything to verify he actually wrote the book of Enoch (use of first person isn't evidence, as I could write the book of Jefferson in first...even though I'm not Jefferson). What can you show me to add credibility to Enoch's account? I propose he was tripping on ergot infested grain.... You have anything to suggest otherwise?

The book.

A pack of lies about the master of all life, wouldn't make it very far. Go ahead and write your book and lets see what happens to you and yours.

SO . . . that's a no on evidence then. Cool. Can you point me to the copy of the book of Enoch written in Enoch's time? If you link me to the Nag Hamadi version . . . that's at least 500 years after he lived . . . petroglyphs anything?

Well . . . at least we have your opinion that it's the truth. Nevermind you've derailed this thread twice now . . . you never can stick to the subject of the thread, can you?

Master of life? Followed by a veiled threat about the afterlife? You're slipping.

Edit for second line...

Originally posted by mamelukkikala
I want Mayan texts, written by Mayans. I accept nothing less. I don't care about the conclusions of some self-important know-it-all. I wanna see where he got his conclusions so I can make my own.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't be able to interpret them.

Also, I'm not even sure that the Mayans had texts. Just reliefs and stuff like that.

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by byteshertz

 

Also . . . Who are you claiming created us, if you're not using Judeo-Christian mythology? If you are claiming any other supernatural entity, through use of another religion, creationism still gets dismissed . . . still a god of the gaps argument without evidence to support.

You are still holding on to the idea you need to believe in a religion to believe in a creator! Expand your mind, religions are created by man, is it not possible someone can understand this and feel they may have some things wrong and therefore simply believe that we were created by a higher power/energy/system whatever you wish to call it - what do you call them, you call them a creationist.

If you are claiming that aliens "created" us . . . you are inserting aliens into evolutionary theory without evidence to support it. It will still be dismissed without evidence. Aliens would have to know evolutionary theory and it would have to be inline with our biological makeup. Aliens, if any evidence is broughtforth, would support evolution, not creationism . . . sorry creationists.

I have made no claim of aliens in my post at all so I am not going to defend this rubbish argument about needing evidence to support them in evolutionary theory - infact last time I checked we can not even connect all the dots of evolutionary theory leading up to humans so maybe I should be the one asking for evidence here.

There is no rule that says someone has to name the god to be a creationist, they simply have to believe in a creator. You seem to think someone needs to justify why they believe in a creator to be a creationist which is not the case but for your entertainment I will explain my reasons below without using the bible...

The big bang theory - a THEORY that from my understanding says all the mass of the Universe started from a single point and due to whatever reason exploded causing a massive expansion that spread rapidly creating everything we see today. The initial "explosion" is said to have taken place 13.7 billion years ago.
Some say it was an initial explosion and some say it is a never ending cycle.

My view: If the big bang was a never ending cycle isnt that just like saying there is a creator that has always existed? If it was caused by an explosion then what created that explosion?
To me the big bang theory raises more questions than it solves and actually begins to sound like a religion in many ways. I believe that we are like a salt water fish in the ocean, we can not begin to understand that that ocean is part of a bigger system of the earth which is a bigger system of space etc and we currently have scientists who are clever fish trying to tell us that everything in the ocean came from a river/estry because they have seen it flowing in to the ocean - but those science guys can not see that the river comes from a mountain that has melting snow, which came from the sky etc etc.
We can keep following the system back as far as we like but at the end of the day the real question for me is can all this order come from disorder - and the answer for me is no - making me a creationist, I believe it is intelligently designed - that does not mean I believe it was made in 7 days, that dinosaurs did not exist or that mary wasnt shagging someone behind josephs back when she got pregnant (if she existed).
It means I don't buy the # science feeds me about them having the answers when they clearly do not, and I have assessed the situation based on what I can see - and what I see is order and systems that work perfectly together that to me suggests intelligent design making me a creationist, others however believe that this order comes because we are seeing it from the point where it all worked - that is fine but I disagree, but to use the bible against all creationists is a cop out and easy way out of the argument in my opinion.

reply to post by byteshertz


First . . . Thank you for sharing your beliefs with me. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted them earlier, but creationism has a specific definition . . . or at least the label of creationism. I've added a link to MW-online so you can see what I mean. And, feel free to look up other online dictionaries, as I personally have never seen it defined any differently. I feel this is where the confusion is coming from and why many here are attributing that belief to religion, specifically Judeo-Christian doctrine.
www.merriam-webster.com...

Based on your stated beliefs, you seem to be more of a proponent of ID and not creationism. Unfortunately, for me and regardless of how you label the "designer", it's still a god of the gaps argument. While you claim that science claims to have all the answers, I disagree entirely. Scientists readily admit when we don't know something, even if they give their best hypothesis as to how it might have played out. The issue with most who don't spend their lives devoted to science is they mistake hypothesis for given fact. A lot of that can be attributed to how information gets to the public about scientific theories. Even so, those areas where we just don't know yet are being investigated and any hypothesis out there that is yet unproven is still supported by heaps of evidence to lead us to those conclusions.

Believe it or not, I believe in the power/energy/system that you talk about. There is ample evidence to suggest an interconnectedness to all life and matter in the universe. The entire function of DNA is a prime example of this connection, in my opinion. Jungian archetypes . . . Campbell's work in comparative mythology . . . all point to a shared consciousness, so to speak. However for me, I don't need a supernatural "grand-designer" to give meaning to the universe . . . I am continually amazed by the wonderment of the natural world. I don't see design . . . I see the universe's natural intelligence on display.

- Star for you!
Cheers!