Another Chemtrail Question

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

You're kidding, right? I get to soak up the dripping sarcasm from four of you guys and you take offense to the clown shoes bit? I thought it was clever, but I will be more polite heretofore.

I keep repeating myself...talk about insulting.

So, you don't like it when people are rude to you, but it's OK to be unilaterally rude to me?
wrong + wrong = right???

Back on topic...There are many more planes in the sky today than even 20 years ago, and those planes fly in parallel lanes along air routes. some of those air routes cross. Add it all up, and you have a greater number of criss-crossing planes leaving contrails than you had in the past.

Although, even in the past, people saw the artificial clouds produced by persistent spreading contrails to be a potential problem. I grew up near in a rural area in the early 1970s. I remember on the "farm reports" on TV that the farmers were concerned that spreading contrails caused by the ever-increasing number of jet airliners could cause some artificially hazy days -- which was bad for most farmers.

So farmers 40 years ago talked about the clouds caused by contrails.

Here's a picture from 1967 that shows a whole lot of contrails:
consci.s3.amazonaws.com...
Criss-crossing Contrail from 1972:
consci.s3.amazonaws.com...

More early contrails Here [link]

No man, I don't like it when my OP is ignored and some smarmy know-it-all tells me what I have or haven't witnessed. Thanks for managing to find the topic and I'm happy for your input but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Originally posted by Yankee451
No man, I don't like it when my OP is ignored and some smarmy know-it-all tells me what I have or haven't witnessed. Thanks for managing to find the topic and I'm happy for your input but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

1. Your OP had been discussed previously. This thread has moved on a little since the OP. I didn't see a use in repeating stuff people already had said about the OP.

2. Why should there be any heat at all? This is a discussion board.

I don't know who was the first to personally insult someone else on this thread, but I'm not going to take the time to see -- mainly because I don't care. I have seen many people in the past, though, take personal offense to people doubting things they believe in.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I have no patience for people who are trying to derail the discussion. I made that clear in the OP. If I have been repeatedly ignored, then in an effort to steer the thread, I'll ask you to leave.

I am also not a thin-skinned shrinking violet who is offended by people making fun of me, I prefer to return it in kind. I don't believe in political correctness and I like to have fun...so if folks find my thread offensive, they don't have to hang out. I wish you would stay, but I'm not going to try to be all things for all people.

That said, I'd prefer we carried on. Let's start fresh you and me, shall we?

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

You haven't read the thread. I have given ample reason to suspect what I've seen aren't contrails.

I have read th thread, and as far as I can see yuo have given no reason whatsoever to suspect what yuo have seen are not contrails.

Your points are pure speculation and unsupported assertion - ie you say something is what you think it is, and that is why it is and challenge people to prove it otherwise when you havent' even proved that "it" exists!

Now granted that circular reasoning may be "ample reason" for you - but it sure as heck isn't for anyone who works in any sort of scientific, rational or logical frame of reference.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


There is plenty in the public record which proves a desire to manipulate the weather, from the very people who have the means and opportunity to accomplish it. Means, motive and opportunity.

The public record also has a paper trail to patents for weather manipulation using aerial aerosols.

Evergreen Air's tanker advertises it can modify the weather all by itself.

Eye witnesses all over the country are reporting observed changes in the behavior of contrails.

Compared to "Jets leave con trails, therefore everything is a contrail", it sure sounds like reasonable suspicion to me.

What none of you seem to be able to consider is what if the "chemmies" are not wrong? Suspend disbelief for a second and imagine that if there IS a covert weather modification program in the works, what would it look like?

When you think about it, this is about the only way a covert weather modification program using aerosols could be pulled off, by using a delivery system that could be explained away by contrails.

I promise, if the sky-covering contrails return to the level they were at from about 2007-2010, I'll post images. I've been taking shots of the clear shots to compare...like I said, it was like turning off the light last spring, and now we're back to normal.

The skies have not changed in the past year, what is changed is that you are just now looking for contrails when you did not before.

Would you be happy if the skies were the same as in 1999 in regards to contrails?

reply to post by Yankee451


Just have to single this one out with a big, fat HUH???:

Evergreen Air's tanker advertises it can modify the weather all by itself.

...because, I see nothing of the sort, on their website. They have ONE big, fat tanker....for fighting fires. I guess, if you consider that a forest fire affects local weather, and putting it out will change that...then, you may have a point.....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hehe...love your new avatar.

Anyway, take it up with Evergreen, they're the ones that claim they can modify the weather with the thing. We're not going to keep kicking this dead horse are we?

I gave my reasons for my suspicion, give me your reasons why they're not reasonable. If you don't think Evergreen can modify the weather, sue them for false advertising; but me, I'm taking them at their word.

I have already given reasons why I don't trust the government and I've admitted to needing to keep that in mind when I'm investigating.

That you refuse to examine your own prejudices, as it were, not to mention that you imply that you think aluminum foil trumps structural steel, gives me reason to believe your judgment is impaired.

Please try my exercise in creative thinking. If you wanted to hide a covert weather modification program that used an aerial aerosol. what would your cover story be?

reply to post by Yankee451

Since jets leave contrails that can sometimes form cirrus clouds when certain conditions are met, I became alarmed at what appeared to be deliberate spraying in patterns designed to create a sun-blocking haze over the sky.

Maybe you can help me out. In the pics below are these chemtrails that we are looking at?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/632d04d81bdd.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7f9ce404792d.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b27bfcbb4056.jpg[/atsimg]

What do you think?

reply to post by weedwhacker


Niiiiice shots!

I guess I would need to know the temperature and the altitude, wind direction, time of year, day and such.

Yeah, that's the sort of heavy coverage I noticed several years ago. All seasons, time of year, didn't matter, I could even see the heavy coverage between the clouds on cloudy days. This went on for a couple years and then stopped last spring.

Are those from the 20th century?

reply to post by firepilot


I say they have changed.

I missed the sun, that's a big deal to an Oregonian. We notice such things.

It has been especially noticeable since last spring when the sun returned. First clear summer I've noticed for a few years, and I've been outside most of the summers since 2005. No more haze. It's natural to wonder why.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Anyway, take it up with Evergreen, they're the ones that claim they can modify the weather with the thing.

Where do they claim that?

They do say that weather modification is a potential market for it - but that's not them saying they can modify the weather.

I gave my reasons for my suspicion, give me your reasons why they're not reasonable. If you don't think Evergreen can modify the weather, sue them for false advertising; but me, I'm taking them at their word.

no you are not - you are putting words into their mouths.

I have already given reasons why I don't trust the government and I've admitted to needing to keep that in mind when I'm investigating.

that's fine.

That you refuse to examine your own prejudices, as it were, not to mention that you imply that you think aluminum foil trumps structural steel, gives me reason to believe your judgment is impaired.

Please try my exercise in creative thinking. If you wanted to hide a covert weather modification program that used an aerial aerosol. what would your cover story be?

My cover story is that I would not be engaging in covert weather modification in the first place because it would be impossible - it would require using something a lot more effective than the unreliable effects of contrail generation, and it would leave some traces in the atmosphere of something different than jet exhaust.

to to "creatively think" of such a covert programme you first have to "creatively think" of something that can achieve the result without leaving any traces in the sky other than jet exhaust.

So far you have to "creatively think" of at least 2 aspects for your theory to actually exist - and you can't show that either of them does so, let alone anything else.

Creative thinking is good for writing novels - gathering verifiable evidence is good for supporting extraordinary claims - I think you stick to the tools that are best for the relevant task in hand!

BTW if you're so worried about Evergreen's tanker, how come no-one has picked up on the DC-10 tanker?? It's been in service longer than the 747 = plenty of videos on YT if you want to look them up.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot

 

I say they have changed.

how are they different from photos skies full of contrails that are well known from before (say) 1990?

I missed the sun, that's a big deal to an Oregonian. We notice such things.

It has been especially noticeable since last spring when the sun returned. First clear summer I've noticed for a few years, and I've been outside most of the summers since 2005. No more haze. It's natural to wonder why.

Yep - and you've been answered.

It is not natural to invent a world wide conspiracy from "creative thinking" because you choose not to accept an answer that has been known for 50 or more years and is well established with vast scientific credentials.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


I'll play devil's advocate to you guys...

Say it's all natural that the government really does love us and cares for our well being.

My well being depends on being able to see the sun the four months out of the year it graces this part of the country. Replacing the clear blue sky with ice fog unacceptable, and since I was working outside from February to October, over several years, doing a lot of masonry and concrete work, I noticed a lot of jet traffic as being the cause of our lack of sun, but after a couple years of that, it all stopped in the spring, and to me that's unusual.

You want to believe that I started looking up because I read about it on some conspiracy site. Okay, let's say that's the case. I started noticing that yeah, almost all of our clear mornings which would start without a cloud in the sky, nor a contrail by any visible jet either I might add, were consistently covered with a milky haze by noon. That's not the normal weather out here. So whether I noticed the weather first or some "conspiracy" site directed me to notice it matters naught. It doesn't change the fact that for several years the behavior was one way, and then stopped behaving that way in the spring. Now, voila, we have blue skies again (like my first 20 years here).

I have an alternate explanation: I started working outside, and I only started to notice it because I was looking at the sky a lot trying to work between cloudbursts. And again...still, that all changed in the spring...no more days like those last photos for us, at least for some time now. Strange.

You guys think I'm cranky now...back when the haze was here I was furious.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


The tankers are examples of the existence of weather modification. Stop trying to use them to prove anything else.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot

 

I say they have changed.

I missed the sun, that's a big deal to an Oregonian. We notice such things.

It has been especially noticeable since last spring when the sun returned. First clear summer I've noticed for a few years, and I've been outside most of the summers since 2005. No more haze. It's natural to wonder why.

Because chemtrail sites started coming out in 1999, and they said the same things then, that you are saying now. And you are saying the skies have changed since 2005, but there were chemtrail sites then too. Chemtrail Central was at its busiest then, at a time when you think the skies were fine and have since changed.

I am more of the conclusion that you do not actually want answers to questions that will be at odds with your idea that we are being sprayed. When someone has some actual information that goes against it, it upsets you. You would be happier if we just went along with your chemtrails religion, and told you what you wanted to hear.

Its curious, how when people have who are convinced of a sinister conspriracy, instead of being relieved at information that should put them at all, instead get angry and insulting. For example, look at all the people convinced that any aluminum in the ground, can only come from planes, partly because of that junk science film WITWATS. But when you tell them the earths crust is about 8% aluminum by weight, they actually get mad at that bit of info, instead of being glad and relieved.

You have posed questions time and time again that have been answered with information and facts, but it goes against the idea that you are convinced of, so you dismiss it all and insult anyone who actually gives information. To you, anyone who is an expert in a field is not a resource to be used, but someone to be suspicious of. However, you are not suspicious or skeptical of someone who has no knowledge of a certain subject, in fact you would trust someone more who is wholly ignorant of aviation and meterology, rather than someone who would be a pilot, or a meterologist.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot

 

I say they have changed.

how are they different from photos skies full of contrails that are well known from before (say) 1990?

I missed the sun, that's a big deal to an Oregonian. We notice such things.

It has been especially noticeable since last spring when the sun returned. First clear summer I've noticed for a few years, and I've been outside most of the summers since 2005. No more haze. It's natural to wonder why.

Yep - and you've been answered.

It is not natural to invent a world wide conspiracy from "creative thinking" because you choose not to accept an answer that has been known for 50 or more years and is well established with vast scientific credentials.

Wow, you guys are the true believers, aren't you.

I am not going to keep describing it. The story doesn't change.

Your premise that jets leave contrails, therefore everything I've seen is a contrail is faulty logic...so what are you arguing here? That I don't have a valid suspicion? After 911? Seriously?

reply to post by firepilot


I have doubts.

Your certitude, and your trust are unfounded.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


evergreenair.com...