Do you think pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder?

reply to post by WhizPhiz


OK....you hit on something important there....teen girls and the way they dress. See, I was once a teen girl and so I know what it is LIKE to be a teen girl. At that age, you want to be grown up, and be treated that way.That is why they dress sexy... You see all your idols dressed in provocative clothes, having sex with everyone male or female....so....you emulate that. Now THAT is the parent's job....to not allow that. Many teen girls equate sex with love, especially those with a bad home life or ones who have been sexually abused. If they don't get love at home, they seek it elsewhere....that is why sex=love to some. Maybe they would enjoy it at the time.....BUT....it does NOT mean it is right. EMOTIONALLY, a girl at that age is VERY vulnerable. The older male is usually just "gettin some", but usually to the girl, it means much more....she's not emotionally equipped to deal with it, and usually, she gets her heart broken because she thinks the guy LOVES her...... I'm saying, just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. About the thing how long ago girls had babies at 11 or whatever.....there were a lot of things people did back then that we don't do anymore....girls got married young back then because people didn't live long back then. Anyway, I am really shocked to hear these arguments.....the difference between having sex with a 36 year old and a 14 year old is this....36 is an ADULT WOMAN.....14 is a CHILD....THAT is the difference.

Im 45 would have no desire at my age for even a 25 year old as it would feel like dating a daughter.BUT 17 years 364 days old shes a kid goto jail do not pass go. 24 hours later shes leagle .
incent teens? dont know a thing about sex NO 14 year old could possibly know what sex is NORE ever ever want to have it.
do you relise how absurd what i just wrote is?
And why is it all you EVER talk about are YOUNG girls anyway? how many 14 year old boys are being banged by the sexy science teacher?( ps I had a sexy science teacher at that age and EVER guy wanted to bang her lol.
so she would have been a perve if she had banged me? ps my first girl friend at 14 was 21 .]
and wile i never managed to get that far it wasn't lack of trying or her not wanting it.
Gess that meens i was molested by her and she needs to burn?ps if it was molestation i SURE wanted to be molested lol.
By now so many guys are thinking lucky dude getting a 21 year old at 14 .
so tell me what is the difference with a 14 year old female and a 21 year old?
she dont know if she likes sex? ABSURD she cant say she wants sex? your full of it.
what she thinks it kissing that gets a girl pregger?? is she mentally handicapped?
now flame me if you want but personally as long as the person is normal i think the age of consent should be alest 13 .
people a 100 years agaio a girl this age was being marred and having kids.
shes-hes sexually mature and DARN sure knows what sex is and darn sure wants sex if she -he can get it .
how many stories do i have to read about then 17 year old who banged the 14 year old going to jail anyway? and why is its only the guys who get busted for it?
some 14 year old chick goes on the net and showes her body and when she does get busted you all come on here posting how they should have not busted her .let a 14 year old guy do that and get caught and hes a perv who needs to burn?
hypocrites all of you and Totally living in wonder land in a place were every girl is virginal. and couldn't possibly know even what a kiss is .
my sons 17 his girl is 9 months younger 16 then him. I already warned him about people like YOU . Told him from the day hes 18 till the day shes 18 cut her off or people LIKE you will want to MURDER him.
you think hes sick? your sick talking about Murdering people for what is normal. magic 18 o buts its only magic enough for sex and voting your not old enough to drink. maybe we should RAISE the age of consent to 21 as well after all there are still 18 year old virgins and i dought she understands how a guy will want to get down her pants.

BTW i was 27 when i marred my wife she was 18 years and a half and had a 2 year old and twins 3 months old now if i had marred her six months earler would i be a perve?
yea she had kids but was still a virgin and didnt know what sex was even when she had her first at 15 which meens she had sex at 14 .Poor incint child she was .
o but the guy who got her preggers that time was 15 so that makes it ok?
of corse neither know what sex was

reply to post by xxcalbier

Well....I don't know if you are referring to me when you said "people like you". but I'll respond anyway. You are right in that there is a double standard. I will say AGAIN, that the difference between a 14 year old or a 30 year old is that 14 is still a child MENTALLY and a 30 year old is an ADULT. As for young girls showing off on youtube etc....that is what I was saying in my earlier post....they see all the singers and stars acting like sluts, so they are growing up thinking that's how they should be to have a boyfriend etc. There is a HUGE difference in brain function from child to adolescent, then to adult. I am in NO way a prude or judgemental....in terms of consenting ADULT sex...but anyone who thinks it's ok to have sex with a child is sick....and I stand by that. It makes me ill to think of some 40 year old guy lusting after a child! I'm not referring to a 18 year old having sex with a 20 year old...I'm talking about adults with kids. You can't see a problem with that? No laws are perfect, and sometimes (like an 18 year old with a 17 year old) there shouldn't be charges....BUT there has to be laws to protect kids from people who think this is ok. People just do not have morals today....anything goes no matter who gets hurt....is that it?

Im sorry stealthy cat, but i think your off with your generalizing and rationalization. You would postulate, it seems, that girls only dress seductively to emulate those they admire, and they only have sex because they think it garners love for them. That may be the case for some....however, many dress seductive because they enjoy feeling sexy, and many desire sex because their bodies are wired to desire it. Not because of peer pressure, or lack of self respect, as all those PC groups want to say, but because sex is enjoyable, makes you feel good, all your hormones are pushing you to do it, and yes, because we all desire closeness and intimacy with others, which sex is a form of.

Please stop making it out like the only reason young people want sex is because they are confused, or abused, or manipulated. Young people want sex because ALL PEOPLE WANT SEX. There needs be no other reason, its natural and a regular part of human development. We are not talking about prepubescent children here....but even they often do. When talking with friends, boys and girls both, many of my peers recall beginning masturbating and having sexual fantasies as young as six or eight. And it is not rare for girls (and boys) that ive talked with to report having started masturbation at those ages too.

reply to post by pexx421


You misunderstand what I'm saying.....teens having sex with someone their own age is one thing...I am referring to an adult male taking advantage of a younger and not as experienced person. I don't think they are dressing sexy because they are confused, I'm saying that they imitate their idols, and yes they like to feel sexy and pretty, and that's fine for her own age group....but not for old perverts...that is where my problem lies...not with normal hormones and growing up....it's with older guys and older women taking advantage of them. So, I just read in the newspaper that a man raped his 2 MONTH OLD ....the baby died....oh well....I guess that was just his "preference" right? He can't help it if he is attracted to INFANTS!!! Those are the ones I say should be locked up for the rest of their lived or executed. If anyone has a defense for that guy, I've lost faith in humanity...

No, thats obviously a different thing, an adults (as if any americans become adult) attraction to an undeveloped child is an illness....thats pedophilia. What we are discussing here is different, its adult attraction to the mature (as humans get mature) physical form which is achieved during teen years. To be attracted to any form that has reached physical maturity is not an illness, its normal and natural. Its the way we are made, and is the same across the animal kingdom. Once young people start exhibiting developed sex characteristics, members of the opposite sex find them attractive, its the way all nature works, and has little to do with psychology or anything else.

Now, our society has rules set up in opposition to this, and moral judgements to whether this is right or wrong, but it doesnt change the reality that this is nature. Further, the trials you say girls go through, where one partner thinks its love, and the other may just be hooking up, are the same that teenagers go through with each other...and often they can be even more cruel because their relationships are much more immature and shallow. Now to me, a much more mature person would not be attracted to a much less mature person just because a mature person should want someone who can offer the same maturity and insight into the relationship. Sadly, in our society there is little maturity anyhow, so often a 20 or 30 year old is really no more mature than a 15 or 16 year old.

Originally posted by StealthyKat
reply to post by pexx421

 

You misunderstand what I'm saying.....teens having sex with someone their own age is one thing...I am referring to an adult male taking advantage of a younger and not as experienced person. I don't think they are dressing sexy because they are confused, I'm saying that they imitate their idols, and yes they like to feel sexy and pretty, and that's fine for her own age group....but not for old perverts...that is where my problem lies...not with normal hormones and growing up....it's with older guys and older women taking advantage of them. So, I just read in the newspaper that a man raped his 2 MONTH OLD ....the baby died....oh well....I guess that was just his "preference" right?

You proved the point even though you were trying to refute (and possibly attack) - the 2 month old was RAPED. Again, the question here ends up being about abuse. There is absolutely no way that a 2 month old could consent, nor is there any way that a 35 year old woman in a coma could consent...nor could a 22 year old being attacked and forcefully raped in a parking lot. These are all instances of abuse and have to be treated as such by law. The question that comes from all this discussion is of the ability of the individual to make consent.

The case could be argued for an adult man being tied up and sexually assaulted by a group of underage teenage girls - is that HIM abusing THEM, or the other way around?

When it comes right down to it, these things have enormous gray areas that "black and white" law often cannot effectively deal with. If two consenting 16 year olds can have sex, and two consenting 45 year olds can have sex, but a consenting 16 year old cannot have sex with a consenting 45 year old, there's an issue in the laws that needs to be looked at. The issue is "age" being used rather other factors, such as the ability to make consent in the first place. Protecting children from sexual abuse is extremely important, but we have to look at this issue in a more effective manner - i.e. "what constitutes abuse?" and likewise "what constitutes the ability to consent?" Some 15 year olds are in a better position to make consent than some 25 year olds - this can be due to upbringing, as some 25 year olds have very little to no experience in the "real world", being sheltered through institutions or family, while many 15 year olds have lived on their own, making the hard decisions, for years.

Expanding further from there, the law then needs an effective mechanism to judge on issues of "mental competence" by the abuser him/herself for cases in which no consent was present for one or both parties. Was the abuse a conscious choice or the result of "mental illness"? This is where things become even more murky as though a 35 year old raping a 2 month old child absolutely screams of disorders - should he be locked up in A) prison or B) mental institution? Was this the act of a "sane" but "evil" person making a "conscious decision", or was it the act of a person who is has truly no responsibility for his/her own actions due to "mental illness"? Is there a blending/cross-over, and if so, to what extent? How should the sentence accommodate such a blending between conscious decision and irrational behavior caused by mental illness?

Imagine a rape case: accused rapist is a 30 year old man with downs syndrome, with an IQ of only 50, who suffers from medically verified fits of rage and delusions. The victim is a 15 year old girl with an IQ of 120. The girl did not consent. The rapist overpowered and raped her in a fit of rage. This is clearly a case of rape, but should the rapist be considered to have consciously made the decision and subsequently be sentenced as a criminal to life in prison? Or should the rapist be considered "mentally ill" and be treated for the illness?

Now substitute the role of the rapist with a high-power CEO from a major international corporation. Is he "mentally ill" or is he a criminal deserving of prison?

And likewise, replace the victim in both cases with a 2 year old - the same issues arise as it's about the abuser/rapist's mental competence. Is a high-power CEO that rapes a 2 year old more mentally ill than his counterpart who rapes a 15 year old? If so, why? Should he then be treated rather than simply imprisoned? Lots of gray area, which is why I say these things need to be opened up to more subjective reasoning by a judge - black and white laws don't leave much room for such case-by-case judgment.

No, it is not.
It is evil incarnate.
Having investigated these criminal acts and interviewing offenders, it is shown that they are very sinister in nature.

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
Yes, yes we do. A child doesn't have the cognitive capability of giving proper consent. Neither does a person with an extraordinarily low I.Q. Yes, the lines are a bit blurry at times, but they are quite clear in many cases.

That said, yes I do believe that pedophilia is a psychiatric illness. Children have no secondary sexual characteristics, and they give off no sexual pheromones. There is nothing sexual about them in a strictly biological attraction sense, so sexual arousal by them has no discernible trigger.

Fetishes don't give off sexual pheromones either or have discernable sexual characteristics.

I have a fetish that I won't mention here, but it's NOT shiny shoes or pvc.

BUT... I have a friend who has a fetish for leather shoes and pvc. That's kind of what pedophilia is. It's a fetish but it just happens to be a criminal one. So I think anybody who practices either is experiencing tragic circumstances out of their control or they're simply criminal. I mean, if you had a fetish for something that was criminal, what would you do? You SHOULD seek medical care or help to overcome it, but if you don't I would view that as deceit and even criminal intent. So that's how I look at people who have pedophilia. If they're not trying to change or trying to get help for their problem then it's like they've already molested a young child to me.

So I don't feel sorry for anyone with this condition that's not trying to get help to change. But for those who ARE, I feel sorry for them. I wonder how much they're in control and how much they're not. I suspect they've lived all their life wondering why they have this fetish and others do not. It probably makes them draw inside themselves and avoid people who they feel do not understand them. I mean, when you feel misunderstood by others your first impulse is to avoid them or hide from them or keep to yourself. And this behavior might be mistaken for narcissism or perhaps could lead to it? And isolating yourself might lead to becoming extreme in ways others wouldn't approve of.

reply to post by pexx421


Well...at least I agree with your last sentence Seriously though, this is a very complicated issue!

reply to post by flyingdog


You're correct about there being a lot of grey area.....it's a tough subject. I hope you didn't think I was attacking you....I honestly didn't mean to. I apologize if I came off that way. I'm interested in all points of view. I really do understand what you are saying....some I agree with, some I don't, but I respect your opinion. It is so very complicated....

reply to post by StealthyKat


OP opened a can of worms with this subject. There are a lot of strong emotions surrounding the subject that make it hard to break down and discuss. It's a very large issue involving many different areas of law, ethics, moralities, etc. It's also becoming a more pressing issue - with growth hormone in the milk and fluoride in the water, it's becoming more common for girls as young as 5 years old to begin menstruating (can't remember where the article was - was a study in the UK). It's a mess out there and I have a niece that grew up right in the middle of it...she was NOT unscathed. I remember the report in the local papers about the guy in his upper 20s arrested at the sex party she was attending at 14. Girls as young as 10 were there, rolling on ecstasy and tripping on acid. He was arrested and charged with lots of things - doubtful he'll be out before he turns 60. Angry as I am about the situation, and at this guy for even showing up when invited knowing they were so young, my niece is among the ones who invited him there, because they knew he had drugs, and I'm more angry at HER. The guy was drugged out of his mind and drunk off his ass, leaving the girls as the ones running the show. None of them faced charges, not even the ones who stayed sober the whole time.

I will answer with a letter I recently sent:

Dear ...... :

I had a male 25 years old cousing, whom I loved a lot. He had always been very nice to me.

When I was 11 years old, he started hugging me and caressing me tenderly, and eroticly.

After a few weeks of this, he seduced me, I had sex with him and I wanted it, but the bare truth is that the experience was really great.

I am now the father of several happy normal kids and have a wife. I am not gay, (not that I think being gay is bad).


Why do I write this?

When my second kid had just been born, my cousin and I had long ago stopped having sex, but we still cared for each other; my cousin had a wife and a grown up
daughter himself already, and at that time... police found out that he was a pedophile, because a neighbor told on him; there was no kid acusing him, they just found some images on his computer
of him having sex with some boys, maybe even one of the boys was me... I dont know... I dont remember if he took pictures of us having sex, if he did, those were some really happy pictures.

My cousin didn't want to face his family, and to be raped and lynched on jail... so he just killed himself.

I was a coward, as I should have said we had one of the most uncredibly love and sex relationship I have ever had, I should have told everyone that he was great to me.

But then, as now, I kept my mouth shut, I have a family, god knows what would happen if I speak up.

All I tell you, is that you on the media only hear about the most horrible cases that include: raping, murdering, hitting... because when the case
is a happy romantic one, we who live it in our own blood, just don't speak about our relationship, because we don't want our pedophile to be harmed.

I really think my cousin died because of these lies.

All I want is that the truth is known, there are good pedophiles, that just don't deserve to be treated the way they treat them all.

Stop killing good pedophiles: it is just false that sex between a man and a boy is always harmful.

At my cousin's funeral, I wanted to return him to life, I wanted to bring him back to us, to tell every one that my cousin was a really great man, that what police said about him
was not true (that he was not a psycotic, not a sick child abuser, not a child raper).

These lies killed one of my dearest relatives, he won't come back, my aunt loved him deeply, my aunt was devastated, and she never recovered from it. She died a few
years afterwards, and the talking about his pedophile son never ended

But as the freaking coward that I am, I just kept silent, he was already dead, but, what if I had started to speak up before?

Could I have saved his life, if I had?

I feel that I betrayed him by keeping my mouth shut.

And the truth, simply, barely remains: I loved the sex we had. A few times, I even go as far as to miss that wild sex we had, the way he made me feel, like a perfect treasure that needs to be
cared after. Right now, I am the one who keeps the treasure that my wife is, but one day I was the treasure, too.

And the one who one day did cherish me, killed himself to prevent being lynched

It is just not fear, it is simply a lie.


I hope you think about this, I hope you take your fears and prejudice aside, and think.