The Muslim Brotherhood & What is a Caliphate

reply to post by projectvxn

Eh?
That wikipedia article had nothing at all written about the Spain.

Sure, Spain had muslims running the show for 700s.....almost 600 years ago! Then they were forced to convert, or go away, then they were killed or kicked out anyway. They exert as much influence over current day Spain as Mongols have over Poland.



Although looking at your wikipedia article, it's interesting to note that even at it's peak, this so called Ottoman Caliphate (which was basically just the king adding yet another title to his name), it didn't hold over Iran, or Afghanistan, or (current day) Pakistan, or any of the countries where shi'ites are present in any significant amount.

reply to post by babloyi


Pay attention.
What you said:

The Muslim Brotherhood is nowhere near enough a serious contender in Egyptian politics for what is being suggested in the video.

The video seriously over-estimates the Middle East's capability to rally around together under an Islamic Caliphate. I'm sorry, but in no sense will Shi'ite Iran EVER accept a Sunni Caliphate from Egypt or Saudi Arabia or some other Sunni country, and in no sense will any sunni country accept a Shi'ite Caliphate. It just won't happen. It's like suggesting that at some point in the future, all christians worldwide will once again acknowledge the supremacy of the Pope.

Now what the article says:
en.wikipedia.org...

The Ottoman Caliphate, under the Ottoman Dynasty of the Ottoman Empire inherited the responsibility of the Caliphate from the Mamluks of Egypt.

During the period of Ottoman growth, Ottoman rulers beginning with Mehmed II claimed the caliphal authority. His grandson Selim I, through conquering and unification of Muslim lands, became the defender of the holiest places in Islam. The demise of the Ottoman Caliphate took place in part because of a slow erosion of power in relation to Europe and end of the state in consequence of partitioning of the Ottoman Empire. Abdul Mejid II, who lost the Sultanate, kept the Caliph position for a couple of years, but with Atatürk's reforms, the caliph position was abolished.

The Ottoman Caliphate cared little over Sunni and Shi'ite and it began in Egypt. Sounds like history repeating itself no? Will never happen? It already has.

reply to post by projectvxn


I don't think you quite understand how the idea of a Caliphate works. As much as people want it to be, it isn't a political authority, it is a religious authority. Throughout history, of course, there have been several occasions when the political authority and religious authority were the same person, but it isn't necessary, and in today's modern world of countries with delineated borders and distinct countries, it isn't possible. Anyhow, one doesn't have to be the "king" or "ruler" or even "controller of this area of land" to be a Caliph.

Aside from that, as I said, a worldwide caliphate probably wouldn't be possible at all anyway, because no one is going to get the majority of the muslim population to accept any one person. The Shi'ites wouldn't accept a Sunni Caliph, the Sunnis wouldn't accept a Shi'ite one, the indonesian muslims way to the east would never accept a religious authority from the hardline salafi Saudi Arabia, and the hardline salafi Saudi Arabia would never accept anyone from the foreign and alien Far East.

A person/country cannot just "declare" a caliphate, and even if they do, nobody and no country (not even the host country) is obligated to accept it. It existed before, of course, but as I mentioned, in today's world, it isn't going to be possible in the form you are suggesting. It is just the newest boogeyman to scare people with (like a worldwide socialist state before).

reply to post by babloyi



I believe you underestimate the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood and their influence across the Middle East:
Profile: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood(Al-Jazeera)

The Muslim Brotherhood, or al-Ikhwan al-Muslimin, a revivalist Islamic movement, was formed in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna in Egypt.

The Brotherhood is one of the oldest and most influential Islamic movements in the world.

The movement's ideology revolves around cementing the Quran and Islamic teachings as a way of life, reviving the Caliphate and rejecting colonial rule.

They are actually extremely influential and have been for most of the 20th century. Something many people don't understand about Radical Islam is that you CANNOT separate politics from religion, it is one and the same.

From the same source:

During the 1970s, Anwar Sadat, the president, gave more freedom to Islamic groups in his bid to combat pro-Nasser leftist groups.

The Brotherhood was able to re-emerge, though it was still not granted any legal status.

Though many strands of political thought developed, the Brotherhood attracted students which invigorated the movement and pushed it more towards political activism.

This ushered in participation in parliamentary elections.

In 1984, in alliance with the Wafd party, the Brotherhood managed to attain 58 seats. In 1990, the movement boycotted the elections, calling for a neutral electoral process.

The Muslim Brotherhood and many of it's members have been trying through various means to impose Shari'a Law in Egypt and all across the ME for decades. In some instances succeeding.

Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's partner in crime is an Egyptian member of the Muslim Brotherhood as are several anti-western figures who have emerged on the world scene. The idea that this organization is not a threat, and that the goal of an Islamic Caliphate is a pipe dream is not shared by all. The MB has made great strides to these ends.

Al Qaeda No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahiri Calls on Hamas to Implement Islamic Sharia Rule in Gaza

CAIRO, Egypt — Al Qaeda's deputy leader called on Muslims around the world to back Hamas with weapons, money and attacks on U.S. and Israeli interests in a Web audiotape Monday, urging the Palestinian militant group to unite with Al Qaeda's "holy warriors" after its takeover of Gaza.

These people are dangerous and do, infact hold much sway over politics in the ME, not just in Egypt.

en.wikipedia.org...

Hassan al-Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood in the city of Ismailia in March 1928 along with six workers of the Suez Canal Company. It began as a religious, political, and social movement with the credo, “Allah is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”[31][32] Al-Banna called for the return to an original Islam and followed Islamic reformers like Muhammad Abduh and Rashid Rida. According to him, contemporary Islam had lost its social dominance, because most Muslims had been corrupted by Western influences. Sharia law based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah were seen as laws passed down by Allah that should be applied to all parts of life, including the organization of the government and the handling of everyday problems.[33]

Emphasis mine.

The fact is this group is influential and dangerous. They have branches and operatives in many countries including the United States. Some of which were prosecuted for funneling money to Hamas which is an MB created terrorist organization.

I think it's important to do your homework, sir. I understand fully what the MB wants and how they are aiming to achieve it. The idea that there are no Islamic or even socialist global organizations that present a threat to the American way of life, and indeed to the Western world is naive at best, intellectually lazy at worst.

Edit to add Skyfloating's thread:
Adolf Hitler and the Muslim Brotherhood

My,My, My. Seems we were on to something so many years ago.... O.K. back to sleep.