Dugway: 1 Milliliter of VX Is 1,362 Lethal Doses...

1 Milliliter of VX Is 1,362 Lethal Doses...

I did not add this to existing threads as they are getting HUGE, and I didn't want the seriousness of "just one mililiter- about a quarter teaspoon" to get lost in all the posts and trolls.

VX is the most toxic nerve agent ever synthesized for which activity has been independently confirmed.[5] The median lethal dose (LD50) for humans is estimated to be about 734 micrograms [citation needed] through skin contact.

That is from VX Nerve Agent at Wikipedia.

A quantity as small as 1ml constitutes a "missing weapon of mass destruction".

Such a weapon would facilitate the covert assassination of thousands of people. Their symptoms would mimic those of fatal influenza.

Possession of VX is quite illegal:

As a chemical weapon, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations in UN Resolution 687. The production and stockpiling of VX was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993.

Why do we have this? What is it being stockpiled for? Is the "magic vial" that "reappeared" really VX, or corn oil? And if it is VX, is it "the same VX that was missing".

Serious questions, especially if we remember John Wheeler's mysterious demise in a dumpster.

Answers or speculation, ATS?

reply to post by Chakotay


Damn that small of a dosage through skin contact and it's over? Imagine a mist of VX sprayed overhead...would take out a whole state.

the word scary doesn't do this justice.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call hoax.

reply to post by audio assasin


We need a bit more info than that.

I don't know what to say truly terrifying. Surely someone with a degree in chemistry could whip something similar up? The world just gets scarier every day!

Originally posted by audio assasin
I'm going to go out on a limb here and call hoax.

Specify the hoax. The VX was reported missing. Dugway was locked down.

The VX was subsequently found, and the base reopened: REUTERS

No hoax- facts.

To me, the fact that when it was found it had been repackaged / improperly labeled makes it much worse. It seems to have intent behind it - even if the Colonel said it didn't.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and call hoax.

cos it was never lost in the 1st place.or if it was there must be some dum ass working there to lose it in the 1st place so i say I'm going to go out on a limb here and call hoax.

Originally posted by Chakotay
Possession of VX is quite illegal:

As a chemical weapon, it is classified as a weapon of mass destruction by the United Nations in UN Resolution 687. The production and stockpiling of VX was outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993.

It's not exactly illegal that the U.S. still has this.

The Chemical Weapon treaty was signed in 1993, but the destruction has been carried out in phases - the treaty allowed a deadline of 2012 (April?) to have them destroyed, but I've read of posible extensions to 2017.

reply to post by daraSD


Any idea why it takes so long to decommission VX?

Or why it was packaged in concealable-size vials?

Is this US bugspray or some of Saddam's 'non-existant WMD's' ?

It is illegal to transport the chemical and bio agents, so for each facility that has them, a whole destruction facility has had to be constructed, which is a lot easier said than done. They've had to figure out the best way of disposing, before building the facilities to do so - then there are environmental hurdles, etc.

Why a small vial? I guess it's a little easier to clean up/contain an accidental spill of any chem/bio agent when it's a teaspoon, rather than a bucket of it.

It’s a proving grounds people!
It is where they test the lethality of weapons and the effectiveness of countermeasures.

The vx is most likely there to test the effectiveness of equipment designed to protect people from it. Air filtration equipment, PPE, chemical countermeasures, vaccines and the like.

You can virtually test equipment all you like on a computer, but the only way you can be sure that something will block the agent in question is a real world test.


If you don’t do those test, how can you be sure that the troops in the field will be safe if they come up against such a threat in the field?

reply to post by daraSD


The way I understand it, the last of the US stockpile of VX was destroyed in 2008.

Army confirmation of destruction.

So- whose VX was this?

The US stockpile was made up of rocket warheads, bombs and artillery shells weighing in too big for a terrorist to smuggle them off base under a coat.

The small size of this VX ampule makes it a concealable weapon of mass destruction.

And that IS a treaty violation.

a) Wikipedia is not always correct - a good source of information, but try not to rely too heavily on it.

b) The Wikipedia article you linked to mentions the date 2008, not 1998 - and, it only mentions some of the US facilities where VX is/was located. Dugway isn't mentioned because they have (obviously) not destroyed theirs yet.

c) The CMA article notes only that the VX at destruction facilities is gone. Some destruction facilities are still under construction, which is why the probable extension to 2017.

reply to post by daraSD


The people who will be wanting to know the answers to all these questions and more are:

Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the Treaty enforcement body.

Any experienced ATS'ers have an opinion on the OPCW?

What were/are/will be the environmental effects when all that VX dumped at sea 'burps'?

Note that the VX destroyed in the States was shipped off as toxic brew to be further processed- where? Arkansas?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


I didn't read about repackaging and such - do you have a link for this?

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Scratch that last request, I see it in the Reuters source now.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman
[mo

This sounds pretty damn serious, don't get me wrong. Nevertheless, I just hate it when people get a little panic attack for something this ridiculous. Like seriously in a couple of minutes, when one who reads and/or responds to this post they will most likely switch to another website and forget about it.

I'm not ignorant nor am i biased but we will ALL die one way or another...its just when.

Nice S&f btw

good day

Originally posted by noobsauce13
This sounds pretty damn serious, don't get me wrong. Nevertheless, I just hate it when people get a little panic attack for something this ridiculous.

Hi noobsauce. No panic attack- I'm a helicopter instructor pilot trained on this stuff.

It seems rediculously small- one gram, 1/4 teaspoon, one milliliter.

But that's enough to kill an entire battalion of infantry.

If you can imagine touching the surface of that ampule with the sharpest sewing needle in your kit- you wouldn't even have to poke, but just touch the tip to the back of your hand and you would be dead in four minutes.

There will have to be a full oversight investigation into what the smurf is going on out there.

Originally posted by Chakotay

Originally posted by noobsauce13
This sounds pretty damn serious, don't get me wrong. Nevertheless, I just hate it when people get a little panic attack for something this ridiculous.

Hi noobsauce. No panic attack- I'm a helicopter instructor pilot trained on this stuff.

It seems rediculously small- one gram, 1/4 teaspoon, one milliliter.

But that's enough to kill an entire battalion of infantry.

If you can imagine touching the surface of that ampule with the sharpest sewing needle in your kit- you wouldn't even have to poke, but just touch the tip to the back of your hand and you would be dead in four minutes.

There will have to be a full oversight investigation into what the smurf is going on out there.

So thats how they make those deadly rings in like the 007 movies
Joking aside I can see the magnitude of this but I would be more scared if I get hit by a car skidding on black ice tomorrow.