Muslim taxi driver refuses woman with unopened alcohol

Strictly speaking the cabbie was well within his rights.

But I do wonder about the strength of his convictions; would he have been as 'principled' if he had noticed that his fare had bacon and non-halal produce in the shopping?
If so then I suspect he'd never get a single fare from a supermarket etc.
And would he have reacted the same if the fare had been male?

And as has been pointed out, what if had been the other way round and the cabbie disagreed with the way halal food is prepared?

Respect cut's both ways and as long as the fare wasn't attempting to drink the alcohol in the taxi then it shouldn't really have been a problem.

Generally there ar two type's of taxi's in the UK, private hire which are usually booked via phone or at the taxi office or Hackney cab's which tend to pick up from designated ranks, however, local by-laws mean that this varies from town to town etc.

This is 100% wrong and racist. Who the hell cares if he is muslim? And who the hell cares if he rejects someone with unopened booze? Is that even a conspiracy? Why even post this on a conspiracy website? WTF? Why don't you take this to some white power website??????????? Giving ATS a bad image.

reply to post by Baguette


It's posted in the 'Social. Issues' Forum where members can discuss things on 'Social Issues: Review issues related to social programs, the arts, and immigration'.

I really don't understand where your self-righteous indignation is coming from.

reply to post by Baguette


How is criticising someone for making a decision based on his religious views (ie Islam) racist?
Islam is not a race it is a religion - you could claim you feel someone is being discriminatory but not roll out the racist card it's pathetic. Are people no longer allowed to cricticise something?
As for the White power - what is this based on. I don't recall seeing anyone posting hateful comments about Muslims on this topic? People are disgruntled with what appears to be one way traffic in what is acceptable, meaning Muslims are able to do as they please by ignoring our laws, being selective in what parts of the UK culture they embrace, and rejecting parts of it when it seems convenient to do so. read my previous post.
Perhaps you could add more detail to backup your reasoning behind making your statement?

Also in case you hadn't noticed - this website has a multitude of different topic areas to post in - not all of which are strictly conspiracies like social issues for example

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by KingDoey

 

Y'know, I admit I'm not familiar with how it works in the UK. But here in the United States, a person is free to refuse to service a customer or potential customer at their own discretion. That is, if I walk into a store, I am not entitled to make a purchase there, and the owner or any of the owner's employees are completely within their rights to refuse me service, for whatever reason they like. It may strike me as unfair, but it's completely their right.

Actually, you are quite wrong on this.

In America you can not refuse service if a person is homosexual, female, or of a visible minority.

If you wish I can link you to the threads discussing it, ad nausem, on these very boards. In all cases the law thought very differently of your assertation that American's can "refuse service"

reply to post by peck420


Actually, I think you can. It's not against the law but you can be sued for discrimination

reply to post by Crakeur


I don't know if you know this, but here goes...

Try suing someone that hasn't broken the law .

Originally posted by Crakeur
First off, what kind of horrific, prejudiced rag is the daily star? they went and capitalized the word Muslim? Fear monger much?

Since he is the driver, he has the right ot refuse a passenger, plain and simple. if his beliefs are such that he cannot be around alcohol, so be it. I don't agree with his decision to not drive the woman but that's his perogative. One can only hope that there will come a time when someone refuses to do something for him based on a set of beliefs contrary to his own and then he will see the light.

or not.

until then, he might want to stick a sign on his cab that says "no alcohol in the cab"

I disagree. If the passenger is not a threat, then it's not his call to discriminate on the basis of his religious beliefs. We're talking the UK, not Riyadh. And if he doesn't like it, he can get out of the business. What is the difference between a B&B denying service to a gay couple, and this?

...and I'm the Liberal!

Originally posted by nocents
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Would it still be a "big whop" if you were blind and they refused your service dog for the same reason as refusing the alcohol ? Even though is illegal.

Yup. Know why? 'cause there's another cab right behind 'em who'll take my fare. What if the cabby just doesn't want to have a shedding, farty, slobbery animal in their vehicle? What if the cabby is a cynophobe, or is allergic?

Your issue seems to be with the cabby being Muslim, rather than any actions or opinions held by him.

My intent was to include a link or two, but there are too many instances to choose from, and in multiple countries. So if you wish google 'muslim cab driver refuses guide dog', and enjoy.

edit on 27-1-2011 by nocents because: to ad stuff

I'm well aware of these stories, and my reaction remains the same; tough luck, spend your money on a different cabby who doesn't mind your animal's company. He's the guy right behind hte one who wouldn't pick you up.

reply to post by peck420


Yes, in fact, you can do exactly this. If you tell someone to get out of your store, they have to obey, or you can call the cops on grounds that that person is trespassing. You can even tell them, "I don't cater to blacks / gays / the testicle-impaired".

However, these people are bound to tell their friends and family about it. Saying "Sorry, I don't sell to slants, get out" is your legal right - but it's also bad for business.

reply to post by peck420


how many people are in jail for age discrimination?

none

how many lawsuits are there a year? - plenty
many are victorious.

sexual harrassment is not against the law but you can be sued for it.

No, in the US you cannot refuse service to someone whenever you want or you will face a discrimination lawsuit.

Please Speak English will get you sued.
Not renting a room to a gay couple will get you sued.

A private owned business will get sued for refusing service.

so last night I had to run out and grab something from the drug store near my apartment. the city is a mess from the storm yesterday and now, with the temps dropping, it's getting icy as hell.

so, there's a guy on the corner, with a smallish dog. The dog is standing behind him, somewhat hidden by a huge mound of plowed snow. The guy is hailing a cab. A cab pulls over and the guy opens the door to let his dog hop in. The cab driver tells the man that he cannot take him with the dog because he is allergic to dogs. The man with the dog says that's nonsense and it's his job to take him. The driver says he would but then his car will make him sick all night and he's not getting off work until the morning.

A shouting match ensues. The dog owner is berating the driver, calling him names. The cabbie is trying to be polite about it but, eventually, the foul language kicks in and he drives away.

So, the cabbie leaves the guy on the side of the road because the alternative is to suffer all night long. For what, maybe ten bucks? There are cabs all over the city. While they fought, several empty cabs drove by. The dog owner wasted time and energy fighting when he could have been in another cab.

If you think about it from the driver's perspective, even if he wasn't really allergic to dogs, the cab is his responsibility for the next 8 or so hours. Most drivers rent the car for the night and, with the city the way it was yesterday, he'd probably wind up having to clean the seats thanks to the dog hopping up there to sit next to his owner. Nobody wants to hop into a cab and sit down in a puddle.

Is it wrong to refuse someone based on your faith? I think so but I think they have that right. Does it help them blend into society? Not at all. Everyone wants equality, everyone wants their fair share of the proverbial pie but, by doing things like refusing someone because they are carrying beer doesn't help. Still, it's their cab.

Since nobody answered my question about how things are done elsewhere, I cannot assume how it is done but I'm guessing that there are either designated cab stations where people line up for a cab or it is like it is here, where you hail a cab as they pass by,

If it is the former, what's the big deal? There'll be another cab pulling up shortly and the only reason to write about this nonstory is to promote anti-muslim sentiment.

If the way it's done is via free for all, hail your cab as it passes by, then it is a bit worse, but, still, the story is in the news for the sole purpose of promoting anti-muslim sentiment.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

I'm well aware of these stories, and my reaction remains the same; tough luck, spend your money on a different cabby who doesn't mind your animal's company. He's the guy right behind hte one who wouldn't pick you up.

How do you feel about the B&B incident where a gay couple was refused service? Do you think they should have just shut up and go down the road to another? Or do you think they were justified in their lawsuit?

reply to post by Crakeur


There is a major difference between the random pet owner wanting to take his pet into places and a blind or disabled person who uses an aid dog. It's illegal to refuse service to them, at least in the States. It's apparently an issue in the UK, too, from what I'm reading, although not often prosecuted. But advocates are apparently rallying for stricter laws.

Not exactly a cab story but I know when we worked on the airlines, random pets had to be handled a certain way while aid dogs were practically treated as a human passenger.

As for the alcohol story, I couldn't care much less. To me alcohol is a minor issue. Someone with a handicap is pretty major.

reply to post by Crakeur


Just because a law is broken doesn't mean that you go to jail.

Law breaks down into three broad categories: criminal, civil, and contractual. (Contractual is often treated similar to civil)

If you break a civil or contractual law, 99% of the time, you will face punitive (monetary) damages. No jail terms.

It is criminal law that delivers the vast majority of prison sentences.

This case, anti-discriminitaion, is a civil matter. If you break this law you will most likely face fines, and in the rare (extreme) cases will be issued a cease business order.

None of this changes the fact that a LAW was broken. (If it had occured in the US, I am not 100% sure on the UK anit-discrim laws.)

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by peck420

 

Yes, in fact, you can do exactly this. If you tell someone to get out of your store, they have to obey, or you can call the cops on grounds that that person is trespassing. You can even tell them, "I don't cater to blacks / gays / the testicle-impaired".
However, these people are bound to tell their friends and family about it. Saying "Sorry, I don't sell to slants, get out" is your legal right - but it's also bad for business.

edit on 27-1-2011 by TheWalkingFox because: (no reason given)

The "sensitivity crowd" here on ATS will be all over you for taking this position!!!

The day is not far off when a cabbie will lose his job for refusing to take on a customer carrying a bag of rainbow frosted cupcakes. In this day and age, gays can call up a cake shop and request rainbow frosted cupcakes, and when the owner refuses because he operates a cake shop, his store is surrounded by the angry decrying the shop owner as being a homophobic.

If it was my business, I'd close up shop and move to another state. I believe in "The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone". These days the tail wags the dog and a self-employed business owner has no rights but to cater to anything that walks in the door.

Originally posted by Crakeur

so, there's a guy on the corner, with a smallish dog. The dog is standing behind him, somewhat hidden by a huge mound of plowed snow. The guy is hailing a cab. A cab pulls over and the guy opens the door to let his dog hop in. The cab driver tells the man that he cannot take him with the dog because he is allergic to dogs. The man with the dog says that's nonsense and it's his job to take him. The driver says he would but then his car will make him sick all night and he's not getting off work until the morning.
So, the cabbie leaves the guy on the side of the road because the alternative is to suffer all night long.

I don't know how it works down there, but here the cabbie has to answer to the licensing commission. He ought to have the right to refuse the fare, as others may have health issues regarding the dog...cleanliness can also be an issue.

If it is a seeing eye or 'helper' dog, the fare would have the paper work and it's tough luck for the cabbie. But refusing on a religious basis counts as tough noogies entirely, and the cabbie could get his license suspended or lifted entirely.

And that, in my humble opinion is the way it ought to be. Taxis are a public business and should comport themselves accordingly. If they don't like it...quit.

Discrimination is discrimination. Faith based discrimination is still discrimination. The bed and breakfast deal with the gay couple is the same as this scenario with the woman and the taxi, he is refusing service because of his religious beliefs as were the B&B owners. The circumstances are different but the common denominator is religious beliefs, so if you found that you sided with the gay couple, you really should side with the woman and her beers.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Yes, in fact, you can do exactly this. If you tell someone to get out of your store, they have to obey, or you can call the cops on grounds that that person is trespassing. You can even tell them, "I don't cater to blacks / gays / the testicle-impaired".

This isn't true in the UK, where the story took place.

Most of the jobs that I had, throughout my late teens and early twenties, were in retail. There is absolutely no way that I could refuse service to anybody, unless they transgressed a company policy.

All company policies have to stay within in the law. Consequently, someone who is legally working should not be able to discriminate against anybody for arbitrary, non-legal reasons.

If they do, then they quite rightly have violated the law of the land.


While I appreciate that you're not justifying the ''right'' of people in the US to discriminate on these grounds - you are just stating the facts of the situation in the US - we, in the UK, are more proactive on these issues, and we quite rightly outlaw egregious discrimination amongst all citizens.

Good show !

reply to post by jjkenobi


Yep, you can get sued. In case you're not keeping up, in the US you can legally file suit over anything. Is your chocolate bar sweaty? Did the heel of your shoe come unglued? Neighbor's dog pooping in your petunias? Local school teaching evolution? You can file suit.

However, you can't have people arrested for these.

"Filing suit" is worlds different from "pressing charges."