The Rise of the Chav

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
By the logic of this thread, all of us members of this conspiracy site are insane, paranoid nutters and should be locked up.

No, the logic of this thread is that there is a problem, a social problem in the UK that needs to be adressed.

You seem like you just want to troll this thread and turn it into an argument about stereotyping people as all the same...

What this thread is about is trying to adress a social problem.

If you do not wish to contribute to this thread in that manner then I imagine this thread isn't for you, if you persist in your trolling I will not be replying to you, as you are simply derailing a VALID discussion.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
The chav definition is a young person who wears expensive clothes and accessories but has no taste.

I know a few chavs, who are happy to be called that, yet they are decent people. I wouldn't be friends with them if that was the case.

It seems we have a few snobs here.

I think you have YOUR chav definition somewhat skewed, yes they are young and that's where the similarities in your definition end, A true chav will buy cheap clothing and accesories from a local market, most often faked goods in order to look like they have money, when 8/10 this is not the case, they are lazy dole dossing people.

Well prehaps your friends are into chav culture, but if they are wearing expensive clothes then I highly doubt they are actual chavs, I bet they live in a fairly affluent area? Take it from someone who does not, where actual chavs are prevelent...

I'm hardly a snob, if that were the case then I wouldn't be living in the area that I do and earning less than 100 pounds a week...

My friends love the chav culture. They do work, actually one works in a care home and doesn't make that much money. Yes, he buys fake goods but so what? Have you never downloaded free music from the internet because you can?

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
By the logic of this thread, all of us members of this conspiracy site are insane, paranoid nutters and should be locked up.

No, the logic of this thread is that there is a problem, a social problem in the UK that needs to be adressed.

You seem like you just want to troll this thread and turn it into an argument about stereotyping people as all the same...

What this thread is about is trying to adress a social problem.

If you do not wish to contribute to this thread in that manner then I imagine this thread isn't for you, if you persist in your trolling I will not be replying to you, as you are simply derailing a VALID discussion.

edit on 25-1-2011 by Resentedhalo08 because: (no reason given)

TROLLING!!!! Seriously?

This thread is about stereotyping people! that's the point Im making.

I agree we have social problems in this Country.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
Yes, he buys fake goods but so what? Have you never downloaded free music from the internet because you can?

Oh well, sod the economy... lets just spend all our money on fake goods and download free music!

That is a very poor logic and IMO a lousy attitude, No I have never downloaded free music and I wouldn't do it, as a developing music artist myself I would hate to take hard earned money out of my fellow musicians pockets.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
TROLLING!!!! Seriously?

This thread is about stereotyping people! that's the point Im making.

I agree we have social problems in this Country.

No, this thread is NOT about stereotyping people, that is where you are mistaken.

Yes I may have made an initial stereotypical comment as a joke in the OP, but that's as far as this thread goes in that manner.

The purpose of this thread IMO is to discuss a social problem that affects a lot of people.

Quite strange, the first time I heard of "chavs" was in old copies of the Gay Times magazine.
From the depictions there I just thought they were sporty young men in tracksuits and shaved hair.
Later it said they look sporty, but hardly ever play sport.
Interestingly there were a number of sex-lines and videos advertised about chav men.
One article spoke of "council estate fantasies", and that some upper-class Brits have a fetish for chavs!
Along with ageism, this classism was called one of the hypocrisies of the British gay scene.
I'm not sure if this is still the case.

In our region of SA white youth culture has focused more on rock, while the gangsta rap thing was prevalent in colored communities.
However, a new white rap culture has emerged with similar garishness (illustrated by groups like Die Antwoord).
Strange that the upper classes would find the lower class "sexy", or worthy of emulating.

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
TROLLING!!!! Seriously?

This thread is about stereotyping people! that's the point Im making.

I agree we have social problems in this Country.

No, this thread is NOT about stereotyping people, that is where you are mistaken.

Yes I may have made an initial stereotypical comment as a joke in the OP, but that's as far as this thread goes in that manner.

The purpose of this thread IMO is to discuss a social problem that affects a lot of people.

In the past 10-15 years Britain has seen the rise of a social underclass known as the Chav, for people who are not from the UK and are unaware of this term please look HERE for a definition of the term. Here is a picture of the typical Chav,

This is classism and elitism.

Originally posted by JonoEnglish

In the past 10-15 years Britain has seen the rise of a social underclass known as the Chav, for people who are not from the UK and are unaware of this term please look HERE for a definition of the term. Here is a picture of the typical Chav,

This is classism and elitism.

No that was part of the joke in the OP

The "meat" of the thread begins after I say I was making a joke.

Originally posted by halfoldman
Quite strange, the first time I heard of "chavs" was in old copies of the Gay Times magazine.

Interestingly there were a number of sex-lines and videos advertised about chav men.
One article spoke of "council estate fantasies", and that some upper-class Brits have a fetish for chavs!

Strange that the upper classes would find the lower class "sexy", or worthy of emulating.

I would imagine it is a form of upper class fetishism and prehaps a sense of one upmanship (no pun intended)

reply to post by Resentedhalo08

Chavs are generally poorly educated, white and working class (this is not a dig btw, I am a proud working class male), I think the problem is down to society and one that has failed many young people who believe that in dressing like this and adopting a certain culture that in many ways is at odds of that of the UK's, there is a massive problem here and that is alchohol and binge drinking which in turn adds to a lot of anti-social behaviour that blights the country.

So because of the way someone dresses and they identify with a certain culture that makes them a massive problem?

I know many people who have gone through University that go out binge drinking and behave anti-socially. Go to any high street in town on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night!

We do have a drinking roblem here in the UK but thats not down to chav's.

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


In our country we call them BOGANS. Some of our lower class Bogans (Ferals or Sewer Rats) are quite entertainable (try sitting near them on public transport!) but at the end of the day they are just foul mouthed trouble making destructive common peasants who should be driven out of our cities. The working class Bogans (usually labourers, tradesmen and construction site workers) are a pretty good bunch - until you get a carton of beer in to them and they turn feral.

You can blame Australian broadcasting for such ridiculous shows as 'Neighbours' and 'Home and Away'. They are perpetuating Chav culture (both here and there) and I am ashamed of my homeland for this.

Oh and BTW, Chavs here are called Deros (from Derelict).

Well, a lot of these individuals are victims of society. Growing up under-priviledged in an area which typically values education much lower than a middle-class area. Often these individuals will grow up with very low self-worth, after-all, in a materialistic and capitalist society, it's hardly a desirable trait to be a "have not". It's hardly inspiring to see that your grades are way below average, because your school is so poor. One way of combatting this is to build a "rep" for themselves, gaining recognition and as a result, self-esteem.

Also, as typically these individuals from inner-city areas will have poorer qualifications, due to quality of schools, the general opinion of education in the neighbourbood, less materials to aid them with their studies, etc. this makes them much less employable in the future. This is a massive problem now, particularly with the sheer lack of job opportunities available- the latest stat shows around 20% of 16-24 year olds are unemployed and in no form of education or training, a shocking stat.

Of course, a "viable" alternative to employment is crime- drugs, theft, etc. Again, an at least partial product of a society which promotes the fact that you, as a person, are valued by what you own- that combined with the natural human greed factor- someone sees the new iphone advertised, they want it. How is someone who is unemployed going to get that, I wonder?

Once an area "embraces" a violent culture, it is incredibly hard to get out, due to the fact that fear becomes a massive motivater. Just look at the amount of youth knife crime in the UK today, ask a lot of these kids carrying them, why they are doing so- I bet the vast majority would say self-defence, because everyone else, including the kids they hate have them. So the whole thing is just a self-perpetuating cycle, which very few seem to have the will, vision or desire to break out of.

It's far worse than just a small, generational problem, in my opinion. A lot of these individuals are let down- why should they feel they have to act as society expects, when in their eyes society has let them down so badly and dealt them such a bad hand? It's not fair that some people are born half way up the ladder of life, whilst others are born flat on their arses looking upwards. Granted, noone ever said life was going to be fair, but try explaining that to a kid of 10 who has to make the sub-concious and concious choice about whether or not to play the game of life by their rules. In a world in which the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, it will only end in one way.

I can understand both jon and halos views .
If i may imo life has got harder for kids , I was one of the 1st kids in 1987 in my school whose parents were divorced , nowadays sadly its seems to be the norm , 98 % of my freinds now their parents have split up .
So we have broken homes , lack of POSITIVE male role models bleak job opportunities cheap booze u know the type white ligtning special brew etc , we have ghost towns where shops and houses are bordered up n become crack or heroin houses .
Think about the effect this has on fragile impressionable minds .
The root to this problem is very deep and i fear things will only get worse without real cultural change .


ps halo what type of music do you make ?

Originally posted by JonoEnglish
reply to post by Resentedhalo08

 

Chavs are generally poorly educated, white and working class (this is not a dig btw, I am a proud working class male), I think the problem is down to society and one that has failed many young people who believe that in dressing like this and adopting a certain culture that in many ways is at odds of that of the UK's, there is a massive problem here and that is alchohol and binge drinking which in turn adds to a lot of anti-social behaviour that blights the country.

So because of the way someone dresses and they identify with a certain culture that makes them a massive problem?

No, the attitude of a certain number of those people is a large factor in the problem

I know many people who have gone through University that go out binge drinking and behave anti-socially. Go to any high street in town on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night!

Yes and that is part of a bigger social problem that is linked to this one.

We do have a drinking roblem here in the UK but thats not down to chav's.

Yes the UK has a big binge drinking problem, that is down to educating people to respect alchohol and to know their limits, if you were to read the words that I used properly, "alchohol and binge drinking which in turn adds to a lot of anti-social behaviour that blights the country", then you see that I am not soley blaming the UK's binge drinking problem on Chavs alone, but their binge drinking and anti-social behaviour is adding to an existing problem.

Originally posted by TheGhostViking
If i may imo life has got harder for kids , I was one of the 1st kids in 1987 in my school whose parents were divorced , nowadays sadly its seems to be the norm , 98 % of my freinds now their parents have split up .
So we have broken homes , lack of POSITIVE male role models bleak job opportunities cheap booze u know the type white ligtning special brew etc , we have ghost towns where shops and houses are bordered up n become crack or heroin houses .
Think about the effect this has on fragile impressionable minds .
The root to this problem is very deep and i fear things will only get worse without real cultural change .


ps halo what type of music do you make ?

All very valid points! Yes it is definately a problem that has risen in the last 10-15 years, there is a distinct lack of family values and also the role families play has changed over the years.

Cheap alchohol is a part of it yes, but if people were better educated about it and were taught to respect it from an early age and then when they come to drink alchohol in their adult years to learn their limits, all this starts at home with the parents, my parents did it with me and I have a great appreciation and respect for alchohol.

I'm in a metal band, touring later on this year with some pretty big bands and will be getting radio airplay soon.

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


I hope the lyrics in your heavy metal songs promote morality and not imply anything naughty.
I hope your fans behave themselves at your gigs and you tell them off for being too rowdy.

(btw, I don't or haven't downloaded music for free even at the time most people did. I had naff speakers)

reply to post by Resentedhalo08


It does'nt help when their parents are feral too however you can't entirely blame the parents whole heartedly....it's the system of today unlike those of the 1950s to early 1970s. Thanks to the far left libertarians who decided our kids are old enough to become adults at the age of 18. You can no longer descipline a kid without being threatened with a legal challenge. In our country kids can get Youth Allowance upon turning 16. If they are caught stealing, they get only get told off by Police with hardly even a fine. And the list goes on.

Parents have no rights in Australia once theirr child turns 16 yet they can't vote until they are 18.

reply to post by TheGhostViking


I agree, life is tough for the kids of today.
Although in my time, also in the 80's, many families went through hardships when the coal mines were closed down. Whole communities were left to rot with little or no prospect of getting a job.

I think kids today are becoming too distant from their parent or parents by the amount of technology we have. In my day you were very rich if you had a portable tv in your bedroom. Now kids have compters, the internet, games consoles etc. All taking them away from the family living room.

i don't know maybe I'm wrong on that.

reply to post by Hefficide


I suppose our Chavs are a bit like your Gangsta's Without guns, because they dont have guns they hang around on street corners and mouth-off at the elderly and Have replaced thier weapons with intimidating bicycles that were probably stolen.

I work with these "kids" every day as a Social worker but they seem "lost" in all senses of the term