The Witnesses to the Assassination, Assassinated – The Lesser Known Victims of JFK’s death

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This original Thread has been split into 2 parts. In this part, part 1, I’m going try and discuss and hopefully shed some light on the different side of the assassination of John F. Kennedy – The side for many which is rarely ever seen. The conspiracy which followed the conspiracy to assassinate the president.

In other words, the "lesser known figures involved" That being so, some mentioned below are still fairly well known, but, they do still fall into the category of the unknown as IMO, they really don’t get discussed as much as they should – This is why I’m making these THREADS – To discuss those who deserved to be discussed, but rarely are, and bright to light the conspiracy in which they was involved, intentional or not.

Thanks, please continue reading.

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Some may remember, although I doubt it , that around late September last year, I authored a thread titled "The Murder, The Patsy, The Conspiracy" which was sort of my own personal attempt at researching and finding my own sense of enlightenment on the subject of the famous assassination of President John. F. Kennedy. One which I wanted to share with others here on ATS as my Main aim in the writing up of that thread was to gather up all the important information from the case and put it all in one place to study further,... Hopefully with added helpful input from others who are more knowledgeable on the case than me.

Well, after I posted this past thread, admittedly, I've had somewhat of a fascination with this topic as a whole, primarily due to my own belief which if course came about from researching the topic and while writing it up. My belief in that almost everything we was being told about this case was so clearly not the truth, but instead, everything was seemingly pointing to a conspiracy, something I'm confident everyone reading now would find out themselves if they took the time to research it like I did.

..And please don't think when I talk about there being a conspiracy, I'm talking about the assassination itself, because that certainly isn't the case. Although, yes, that was still a conspiracy I'm sure of it, It's just not the one I'm looking at discussing now.

(This thread is dedicated to those whom are cast aside when one thinks of JFK and the conspiracy involved.)

But instead, what I AM talking about here is the aftermath of the event, what I call "the assassination of the witnesses to the assassination". It's one of the main focuses of this thread also - primarily a few whom I feel are important figures in this case - and ones which I feel don't get spoken about as much as they should. Although they are still discussed at length, so, I'm planning on discussing those further cast aside in part 2, which I'm currently about half way through writing up at this point.

You see, the assassination itself, as world changing an event as it was, seems to have turned into the main focus of the conspiracy to many people. It's no surprise really, but that really is something I couldn't agree with still. I feel the bigger conspiracy occurred after the shooting of JFK, and It happened in plain sight for all to see.

Anyway, please continue reading as I've tried to show why I feel there is huge conspiracy involving mere witnesses and those whom accidentally came to know the true information they knew and I'd really love to hear any thoughts on any of the lesser known victims listed specifically below..

Dorothy Kilgallen

Dorothy Kilgallen was a well known journalist at the time of her death, she had reported on the well known sam Sheppard murder case, UFO's and the high profile affair of Marilyn Monroe, among other things. She also often appeared a number of times on television - primarily on the popular TV program, "What's my line?" where she appeared for a total of 15 years up and till her demise.

She was also said to be a good friend of JFK at one point. Possibly one of the reasons she was allegedly so reluctant in posting certain information about him and his affairs which Kilgallen came to know about, I believe, from the individual Florence Pritchard - Yet another mistress of JFK and the one responsible for Kilgallen and the president meeting for the first time.

It was in 1962 though that she seemed to break this rule by becoming one of the first people to discuss the affair between Marilyn Monroe and the president, she famously didn't name any names however, but subtle clues were seemingly left in the column she wrote hinting at whom she may have been talking about, which many believe was the president. Kilgallen later claimed she was talking about Robert though (RFK), Not John. (It's also assumed she was pushed to write this story as she seemingly wasn't comfortable in doing so - Something which is quite a fascinating theory especially when reading what I have to say in this next paragraph.)

Bizarrely though, the date of the posting of this highly important and controversial information concerning Monroe having an affair with a highly well known figure, was none other than the 3rd August, 1962 - In other words, the day before Marilyn Monroe was, herself, found dead in her hotel room under what was certainly highly suspicious circumstances indeed. (Please continue scrolling own the page to see a small section on MM)

Fascinating since kilgallen allegedly didn't want to post such stories and one of the reasons many believed RFK was behind the killing.

JFK was to also die a mere few months after Monroe - something Kilgallen took a keen interest in as she often researched the topic and was said to have found the official story somewhat suspect, like many. She also had very good connections indeed, firstly securing a copy of the police radio log files from the day of the assassination where she was to prove Chief Jesse Curry was lying when he was to later claim he first thought shots were fired from the Texas School Book depository building thus placing more emphasis on Oswald being the shooter, but, instead, what he said was he was just as confused as everyone else: "Get a man on top of the overpass and see what happened up there" he said.

And secondly, she was also able to secure a 102 page segment(!) from the important (and IMO highly suspect) warren commission which was quickly set up by LBJ to (apparently) research and figure out the true outcome from the events in November. She was then, bravely, able to leak from this report evidence showing that the FBI "might have been more profitably employed in probing the facts of the case rather than how I got them" she claimed, among other important details which quite literally forced the warren commission to mention in Its final report - Something I doubt they would have done without Kilgallen.

Kilgallen then also went on to post a seemingly highly controversial article on J.D. Tippit, one showing that he, (Jack) Ruby and (Bernard) Weissman had a meeting together (J.D. Tippit was allegedly shot by Oswald and Ruby was the one whom eventually shot Oswald before he could go on trial) a mere 8 days prior to the assassination of the president - something which thanks to Kilgallen, appeared on the front page of the Journal American - Something we don't hear much about anymore if at all sadly. "Later she was to reveal that the Warren Commission were also tipped off about this gathering. However, their informant added that there was a fourth man at the meeting, an important figure in the Texas oil industry."

She was playing what turned out to be a very dangerous game indeed, especially as certain important case figures were suspiciously dying around her and many people were also said to have been threatened by the Dallas Police as well as FBI Authorities, something she also went on to report and write about. One report was from a woman - Acquilla Clemons - The women who claimed she saw 2 individuals running from the scene of the shooting of J.D. Tippit, and she claimed neither of which resembled Oswald. Clemens, according to Kilgallen claimed. "I'm not supposed to be talking to anybody, might get killed on the way to work."

Kilgallen was also able to secure a private interview with none other than Jack Ruby, a very well known face in he conspiracy and at the time of the interview was in police custody for the murder of Oswald, although I believe no one was or could have been present in this interview but the 2 individuals themselves, and information about the meeting, one which lasted less than 10 minutes, was never to be disclosed so I doubt we'll ever truly know what was discussed as they are both no longer around, but after this, Kilgallen seemed to be spurred on in her research more so than before. What ever was discussed, I personally have no doubt caused this reaction from her.

She even got to a point where she felt she was getting close to uncovering the case - Kilgallen claiming she: "would crack the case" and that "In five more days I'm going to bust this case wide open."

Unfortunately though, she never quite had the chance. Please continue reading what I found to be a HUGELY fascinating and enlightening piece:

Kilgallen began to tell friends that she was close to discovering who assassinated Kennedy. According to David Welsh of Ramparts Magazine Kilgallen "vowed she would 'crack this case.' And another New York show biz friend said Dorothy told him in the last days of her life: "In five more days I'm going to bust this case wide open." Aware of what had happened to Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe, Kilgallen handed a draft copy of her chapter on the assassination to her friend, Florence Smith.

On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead in her New York apartment. She was fully dressed and sitting upright in her bed. The police reported that she had died from taking a cocktail of alcohol and barbiturates. The notes for the chapter she was writing on the case had disappeared. Her friend, Florence Smith, died two days later. The copy of Kilgallen's article were never found.

Some of her friends believed Kilgallen had been murdered. Marc Sinclaire was Kilgallen's personal hairdresser. He often woke Kilgallen in the morning. Kilgallen was usually out to the early hours of the morning and like her husband always slept late. When he found her body he immediately concluded she had been murdered.

(1) Kilgallen was not sleeping in her normal bedroom. Instead she was in the master bedroom, a room she had not occupied for several years.

(2) Kilgallen was wearing false eyelashes. According to Sinclaire she always took her eyelashes off before she went to bed.

(3) She was found sitting up with the book, The Honey Badger, by Robert Ruark, on her lap. Sinclaire claims that she had finished reading the book several weeks earlier (she had discussed the book with Sinclaire at the time).

(4) Kilgallen had poor eyesight and could only read with the aid of glasses. Her glasses were not found in the bedroom where she died.

(5) Kilgallen was found wearing a bolero-type blouse over a nightgown. Sinclaire claimed that this was the kind of thing "she would never wear to go to bed".

Mark Lane also believed that Kilgallen had been murdered. He said that "I would bet you a thousand-to-one that the CIA surrounded her (Kilgallen) as soon as she started writing those stories." The only new person who became close to Kilgallen during the last few months was her new secret lover. In her book, Kilgallen, Lee Israel calls him the "Out-of-Towner".

(Source)

This is also quite an interesting spin on the story IMO also. This out-of-towner..Who could he be? Why did he become close to kilgallen and then seemingly vanish (To the best of my knowledge he did anyway)?

Well, again, please read this interesting piece:

According to Israel she met him in Carrara in June, 1964, during a press junket for journalists working in the film industry. The trip was paid for by Twentieth Century-Fox who used it to publicize three of its films: The Sound of Music, The Agony and the Ecstasy and Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines. Israel claims that the "Out-of-Towner" went up to Kilgallen and asked her if she was Clare Booth Luce. This is in itself an interesting introduction. Kilgallen and Luce did not look like each other. Luce and her husband (Henry Luce) however were to play an important role in the events surrounding the assassination. Luce owned Life Magazine and arranged to buy up the Zapruder Film . Clare Booth Luce had also funded covert operations against Fidel Castro (1961-63).

It has been suggested by John Simkin that Kilgallen suspected that "Out-of-Towner" was a CIA spy. She therefore told her friends this is what he said so that if anything happened to her, a future investigator would realize that he was a CIA agent with links to Clare Booth Luce.

(Source)


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Ron Pataky (left) - The man (Possible CIA recruit) whom may have murdered Dorothy Kilgallen (Right)

Lee Israel has always refused to identify the "Out-of-Towner". In 1993 the investigative reporter, David Herschel, discovered that his real name was Ron Pataky. In 1965 he had been a journalist working for the Columbus Citizen-Journal. He admitted that he was the "Out-of-Towner" and that he worked on articles about the assassination of John F. Kennedy with Kilgallen. Pataky also confessed to meeting Kilgallen several times in the Regency Hotel. However, he denied Lee Israel's claim that he was with her on the night of her death.

In December, 2005, Lee Israel admitted that the "Out-of-Towner" was Ron Pataky and that "he had something to do with it (the murder of Dorothy Kilgallen)".

(Source)

Was the man above the murderer of Dorothy Kilgallen? IMO, It's certainly possible. Anyway, I'd love to hear thoughts on this from others also, the story of Dorothy Kilgallen really has been, for me, one of the most important and fascinating stories from this entire conspiracy.

Gary Underhill

Gary Underhill, a past military figure with strong ties to the CIA and various officials at the time of the assassination of JFK. But, It would seem the death of the president would also mean the death for this man also because of what he had allegedly learned.

Information is quite short on this man so please continue reading this short and fascinating piece below instead of a long drawn out explanation from me:

After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, Underhill told his friend, Charlene Fitsimmons, that he was convinced that he had been killed by members of the CIA. He also said: "Oswald is a patsy. They set him up. It's too much. The bastards have done something outrageous. They've killed the President! I've been listening and hearing things. I couldn't believe they'd get away with it, but they did!"

Underhill believed there was a connection between Executive Action, Fidel Castro and the death of Kennedy: "They tried it in Cuba and they couldn't get away with it. Right after the Bay of Pigs. But Kennedy wouldn't let them do it. And now he'd gotten wind of this and he was really going to blow the whistle on them. And they killed him!"

Underhill told friends that he feared for his life: "I know who they are. That's the problem. They know I know. That's why I'm here. I can't stay in New York."

(Source)

He then Fled.. Death sadly didn't elude him though as he eventually died from what was ruled a suicide. Although, one key point repeatedly brought up about his death is where it had occured, you see, Underhill was right handed which makes the claim that the bullet hole to his head, one which was claimed to have entered through the left hand of his head and side under his ear, quite interesting indeed - Not exactly proof, I know, but an interesting point if true as the question arises, why would he decide to shoot himself in such a way?

Gary Underhill was a writer and researcher in the area of military affairs who is alleged to have had high-level Pentagon connections. Friends say that he did assignments for the CIA. A close friend was shocked when he barged into her home the day after the assassination in a highly agitated state. He had just come from Washington, D.C.

Underhill allegedly said "that the Kennedy murder wasn't as cut and dried as it might appear." According to the friend, "Underhill said that he knew the people involved (and that they knew he knew) and he fled Washington for his life." He indicated that "A small clique in the C.I.A. were responsible" who "were conducting a lucrative business in the Far East" in "gunrunning and other contraband, manipulating political intrigue to serve their ends." Underhill told his friend "Kennedy had gotten wind of something going on so he was killed before he could blow the whistle." The friends at first did not believe this fantastic story and assumed that "he had gone completely mad," despite their respect for his credentials and intelligence.

On May 8, 1964 Gary Underhill was discovered dead, shot through the head. The death was ruled a suicide by District of Columbia police. Some friends wondered if his death was really a suicide since two people who first examined the body indicated that he had been shot behind the left ear but was right-handed. Several friends began to wonder about the frightened claims he had made about the assassination less than six months earlier. Other friends however accepted the death as a suicide indicating their belief that he had been troubled by personal problems and under the care of a psychiatrist. In any event he is dead, and without Gary Underhill to question it is impossible to know if his claims are pure fantasy or based in fact.

(Source)

Lee Bowers

Lee Bowers, one of the more stronger and well known key figures in this entire case, IMO. He had a near perfect view of the grassy knoll position and of course he claimed to have seen shooters also. At the very least, one of his claims was he may have seen figures walking with rifles in the same vicinity as the grassy knoll. The same men came from 3 cars which were situated in the forbidden area near the Texas school book depository building. So, no one should have been in this area so how did these 3 cars come to be there?

Chevrolet. It entered just "seven to nine minutes before the shooting" and also bore a Goldwater campaign sticker. The Chevrolet also was bespattered by red mud and spent rather longer circling the area, driving very close to the 14-foot tower in which Bowers was. It slowly cruised away, pausing at the point which became the assassination spot.

Bowers also reported that he saw two men standing near the picket fence just before the President was killed. One he described as middle-aged and heavy-set and the other in his mid-twenties, wearing a plaid shirt or a plaid coat or jacket. The descriptions came very close to those rendered by Julia Ann Mercer of the two men she had seen in the green pick-up truck. "These men were the only two strangers in the area" said Bowers. "The others were workers whom I knew." Bowers said the two men were there while the shots were fired.

(Source)

Upon the shooting, Bowers' extraordinary claim that he had seen people on th Grassy Knoll, not to forget that he went on to claim he saw a flash of light and smoke (from a gun perhaps?), was actually confirmed by those working on the railway overpass... (Please see the video below (scroll down) for confirmation and video evidence of this)

This is what he saw in his own words (verified by video evidence below):

Mark Lane interviewed Bowers for his book Rush to Judgment (1966): "At the time of the shooting, in the vicinity of where the two men I have described were, there was a flash of light or, as far as I am concerned, something I could not identify, but there was something which occurred which caught my eye in this immediate area on the embankment. Now, what this was, I could not state at that time and at this time I could not identify it, other than there was some unusual occurrence - a flash of light or smoke or something which caused me to feel like something out of the ordinary had occurred there."

(Source)

This is where Lee Bowers worked. (See the small tower to the left of the Schoolbook Depository Building) As you can see, he had an almost perfect view of the grassy knoll and It's obvious to see how he could have seen shooters come into into the car park and head off into there shooting positions.



Unfortunately though, Bowers didn't manage to tell his entire story to the public, He was sadly killed in what became very suspicious circumstances. Here is what he managed to tell the warren commission though first of all.

- Here is the entire transcript from the Warren Commision

Bowers made two significant observations which he revealed to the Commission. First, he saw three unfamiliar cars slowly cruising around the parking area in the 35 minutes before the assassination; the first two left after a few minutes. The driver of the second car appeared to be talking into "a mike or telephone" - "he was holding something up to his mouth with one hand and he was driving with the other."

(Source)

I have to ask at this time, was he communicating with this man on the ground?:

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I manage to find this seriously interesting source discussing how Bowers may have heard what and how he managed to hear what was said on the radio also (something the warren commission stopped Bowers from discussing I believe):

Former CIA contract agent Robert D. Morrow, In his frightening and detailed narrative, First Hand Knowledge--How I participated in the CIA-Mafia Murder of President Kennedy (1992, Shapolsky), may provide some insight. Morrow, an electronics expert, claims that in the summer of 1963, CIA head of Domestic Operations Officer Tracy Barnes, ordered him to procure four Mannlicher 7.35 rifles and four small radio transceivers.

My involvement with the plans to assassinate John F. Kennedy commenced at the end of June, 1963. On July 1, I was contacted by [CIA head of Domestic Operations Officer] Tracy Barnes. He requested that I purchase four Mannlicher 7.35 mm surplus rifles. According to Barnes, the rifles were available in the Baltimore area from Sunny's Supply Stores. Upon my agreement to make the purchase, Barnes requested that I alter the forepiece of each rifle so that the rifles could be dismantled, hidden and reassembled quickly. I thought this last request odd until I was informed that the rifles were to be used for a clandestine operation.

One day later I received a second phone call. It was [Eladio] del Valle calling from, I assumed, Miami. He asked me to supply him with four transceivers which were not detectable by any communications equipment then available on the market. Although his request seemed impossible, I told him that I had an idea which might fulfill his requirement. I could provide him with sub-miniaturized units whose operation would be confined to a range of fifty or one hundred kilohertz. To operate any sizable distance, the units would require an antenna at least several feet in length. A wire taped to the user's leg would easily suffice for this purpose. The set-up would not be pretty, but I could assure him that no one would be monitoring these low frequencies.

Del Valle then requested that I deliver the transceivers and the rifles to David Ferrie. I was surprised by Ferrie's involvement in the transaction. Barnes, in our previous conversation, had neither informed me that the rifles were being made for Clay Shaw in New Orleans nor that David Ferrie would be the person responsible for picking them up once I had completed the required alterations. Del Valle explained to me that the rifles and communications equipment were for his Free Cuba Committee, and that Clay and Ferrie were assisting him in the operation. I assured him that the equipment would be ready on time as I would immediately order the Motorola-made special transceiver units. Motorola was manufacturing the units for railroad communications equipment; they were relatively easy to secure. [emphasis added]

The radio transceivers for del Valle were more difficult to create than I had originally thought they'd be. An unusual amount of power was required for them to transmit over any significant distance. To solve this dilemma, I included an extra pack of four "D" type battery cells to be used for transmitting purposes only. The pack was plugged into the transceiver unit and could easily be carried in the user's pocket. Ironically, I later learned from del Valle that the transmission time was to be limited to five minutes, which meant my additional adjustments had been unnecessary.

(Source)

Del Valle then goes on to say:

"They had better be perfect, compadre. They are for Texas! ...Kennedy is going to get it in Dallas!" as they was seemingly having trouble with them.

And furthermore the radio equipment he chooses just happens to operate in the ultra-low frequency range that is shared with railroad communications equipment--the same sort of equipment Lee Bowers would have been familiar with in his job in the railroad switching tower.

Technically savvy readers will note that the frequency band of 50 - 100 kilohertz is extremely low in terms of conventional radio transmissions. A simple investigation has revealed that the only entities which are authorized by the FCC to use this range--other than railroad employees--are military submarines, who exploit the long-wave characteristics of the energy for long-range underwater communications.

(Source)

A third car, with out-of-state plates and mud up to the windows, probed all around the parking area. Bowers last remembered seeing it about eight minutes before the shooting, pausing "just above the assassination site." He gave detailed descriptions of the cars and their drivers.

(Source)

Bowers also observed two unfamiliar men standing on top of the Knoll at the edge of the parking lot, within 10 or 15 feet of each other - "one man, middle-aged or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt, fairly dark trousers. Another younger man, about mid-twenties, in either a plaid shirt or a plaid coat or jacket." Both were facing toward Elm and Houston, where the motorcade would be coming from. They were the only strangers he remembered seeing. His description shows a remarkable similarity to Julia Ann Mercer's description of two unidentified men climbing the knoll.

When the shots rang out, Bowers' attention was drawn to the area where he had seen the two men; he could still make out the one in the white shirt - "the darker dressed man was too hard to distinguish from the trees." He observed "some commotion" at that spot, "...something out of the ordinary, a sort of milling around...which attracted my eye for some reason, which I could not identify." At that moment, he testified, a motorcycle policeman left the Presidential motorcade and roared up the Grassy Knoll straight to where the two mysterious gentlemen were standing behind the fence. The policeman dismounted, Bowers recalled, then after a moment climbed on his motorcycle and drove off. Later, in a film interview with attorney Mark Lane, he explained that the "commotion" that caught his eye may have been "a flash of light or smoke." His information dovetails with what other witnesses observed from different vantage points.

(Source)

Bowers was then to die from what was very suspicious circumstances indeed

On the morning of August 9, 1966, Lee Bowers, now the vice-president of a construction firm, was driving south from Dallas on business. He was two miles from Midlothian when his brand new company car veered from the road and hit a bridge abutment. A farmer who saw it said the car was going 50 miles an hour, a slow speed for that road. There were no skidmarks to indicate braking.

Bowers died of his wounds at 1 p.m. in a Dallas hospital. He was 41. There was no autopsy, and he was cremated soon afterward. Doctors saw no evidence that he had suffered a heart attack. A doctor from Midlothian, who rode in the ambulance with Bowers, noticed something peculiar about the victim. "He was in a strange state of shock," the old doctor said, "a different kind of shock than an accident victim experiences. I can't explain it. I've never seen anything like it."

Bowers widow at first insisted to Penn Jones that there was nothing suspicious about her husband's death. Then she became flustered and said: "They told him not to talk."

(Source)

Please take the time to watch this particularly interesting video also (It summarises the events and gives an insight into what Bowers REALLY had to share and it's worth watching).



Quick summary of the above video:

0.00 - 1:23, Quick introduction into Lee Bowers, where and who he was. Also a quick summary of the positions of the president, grassy Knoll and Lee Bowers at the time of the shooting.

1:23 - 2:27, Lee Bowers tells us, in his own words, what he saw (which was movement and a flash of light or smoke at the grassy knoll area hinting at a shot being fire). His testimony is then confirmed by workers at the local railroad whom had roughly the same view as Bowers.

2:27 - 2:58, A look at Oswald, and whether he could have been the shooter. Also, Robert Groden discusses the evidence showing A grassy Knoll shooter.

2:58 - 3:32, "4 months after this interview (the one mentioned above) was filmed, Lee Bowers was to die".
A quick explanation is given into the circumstances leading to his death and a serious look is given as to whether he was murdered rather than being involved in nothing but a car accident."According to an eye witness, he (Bowers) was driven off the road by a black car." "He (Bowers) survived for 4 more hours and he told them (ambulance crews) he thought he had been drugged"

3:32 - 4:45, A look at why Bowers had to die considering he already told everything he knew. Something which was false as he was allegedly afraid to tell them everything. Walter Rischel (Friend of Bowers): "He said he saw a car pull up, 2 men get out of the car, when they was carrying what appeared to be rifles." Penn Jones Jr.(Well known journalist and one of the first to challenge the official story) also gives his story from what Bowers had told him.

4:45 - 5:13, More people whom saw more than one shooter in the vicinity of the grassy knoll are discussed. Quick discussion from the HSCA which proved a shot came from the grassy knoll.

5:13 - 6:06, Back to Bowers and the reasoning behind him not telling his full story to the public is discussed. Walter Rischel: "He (Bowers) had disappeared for about 2 days" "And when he came back, one of his fingers was missing"

6:06 - 6:59, Final discussion on how Bowers had died. Craig Rivera: "His death certificate is missing." "There is no autopsy either." And a quick discussion about how there was evidence of figures at the Grassy knoll site, such as foot prints, cigarette butts and muddy footprints on a car in the nearby carpark etc..

Mary Meyers

Mary Meyers, one of the women JFK was alleged to have had a relationship with (affair) in his time in office. She is also coincidentally the wife of a CIA veteran - Cord Meyer. It's alleged that she often rang the president at the oval office (like other mistresses), she often visited and she also was well known for bragging about her high profile relationship to her friends.

Among these things, It's claimed JFK often told her presidential and classified secrets also, such as those which may have involved Cuba - A time where tensions were at an all time high, as well as nuclear disablement secrets among more.

In 1963 - The year of the death of the president - The affair was disclosed by a publisher of the Washington post during a convention. Strangely though, no such things were to be reported by any media outlets what so ever, but It was at around this time the affair was said to have come to a close.

Shortly after this though, in 1964 - a year after JFK himself had died, Meyers was to die also. It was her suspicious death however which is why I feel she more than deserves to be one of the key individuals mentioned whom is involved in the conspiracy involving JFK, but one whom is not mentioned as much as should be.

Reason being, she didn't die from natural causes, but instead, she had been clearly murdered. Suffering 2 gunshot wounds to the head from Point blank range. But, one thing I always found quite interesting Is what she apparently said herself after the death of the president, before she was to die also which was shown in a biography of Timothy Leary:

According to his biography, Flashbacks (1983) Timothy Leary claims that Mary phoned him the day after Kennedy was assassinated: "They couldn't control him any more. He was changing too fast. He was learning too much... They'll cover everything up. I gotta come see you. I'm scared. I'm afraid."

(Source)

So, how did Mary die??

On 12th October, 1964, Mary Pinchot Meyer was shot dead as she walked along the Chesapeake and Ohio towpath in Georgetown. Henry Wiggins, a car mechanic, was working on a vehicle on Canal Road, when he heard a woman shout out: "Someone help me, someone help me". He then heard two gunshots. Wiggins ran to the edge of the wall overlooking the tow path. He later told police he saw "a black man in a light jacket, dark slacks, and a dark cap standing over the body of a white woman."

Mary appeared to be killed by a professional hit man. The first bullet was fired at the back of the head. She did not die straight away. A second shot was fired into the heart. The evidence suggests that in both cases, the gun was virtually touching Mary’s body when it was fired. As the FBI expert testified, the “dark holes on the skin around both entry wounds suggested they had been fired at close-range, possibly point-blank”.

Soon afterwards Raymond Crump, a black man, was found not far from the murder scene. He was arrested and charged with Mary's murder. Police tests were unable to show that Crump had fired the .38 caliber Smith and Wesson gun. There were no trace of nitrates on his hands or clothes. Despite an extensive search of the area no gun could be found. This included a two day search of the tow path by 40 police officers. The police also drained the canal near to the murder scene. Police scuba divers searched the waters away from where Mary was killed. However, no gun could be found. Nor could the prosecution find any link between Crump and any Smith and Wesson gun.

Crump’s lawyer, Dovey Roundtree, was convinced of his innocence. A civil rights lawyer who defended him for free, she argued that Crump was so timid and feeble-minded that if he had been guilty he would have confessed everything while being interrogated by the police.

(Source)

The trial judge was Howard Corcoran. He was the brother of Tommy Corcoran, a close friend of Lyndon B. Johnson. Corcoran had been appointed by Johnson soon after he became president. It is generally acknowledged that Corcoran was under Johnson’s control. His decision to insist that Mary’s private life should not be mentioned in court was very important in disguising the possible motive for the murder. This information was also kept from Crump’s lawyer, Dovey Roundtree. Although she attempted to investigate Mary's background she found little information about her: "It was as if she existed only on the towpath on the day she was murdered."

(Source)


But what would Cord meyers, a CIA man have to say about the death of his wife - Could he provide clues as to whether this really was a murder completely unrelated to Kennedy, or whether Mary, his wife had been silenced?

After leaving the CIA in 1977 Cord Meyer wrote several books including an autobiography, Facing Reality: From World Federalism to the CIA. In the book Meyer commented on the murder of his wife: "I was satisfied by the conclusions of the police investigation that Mary had been the victim of a sexually motivated assault by a single individual and that she had been killed in her struggle to escape." Carol Delaney, the longtime personal assistant to Meyer, later admitted: "Mr. Meyer didn't for a minute think that Ray Crump had murdered his wife or that it had been an attempted rape. But, being an Agency man, he couldn't very well accuse the CIA of the crime, although the murder had all the markings of an in-house rubout."

In February, 2001, the writer, C. David Heymann, asked Cord Meyer about the death of Mary Pinchot Meyer: "My father died of a heart attack the same year Mary was killed, " he whispered. "It was a bad time." And what could he say about Mary Meyer? Who had committed such a heinous crime? "The same sons of bitches," he hissed, "that killed John F. Kennedy."

(Source)

Also, what could of happened to any evidence of the affair?

In March, 1976, James Truitt, a former senior member of staff at the Washington Post, gave an interview to the National Enquirer. Truitt told the newspaper that Meyer was having an affair with John F. Kennedy when he was assassinated. He also claimed that Meyer had told his wife, Ann Truitt, that she was keeping an account of this relationship in her diary. Meyer asked Truitt to take possession of a private diary "if anything ever happened to me".

Ann Truitt was living in Tokyo at the time that Meyer was murdered on 12th October, 1964. She phoned Bradlee at his home and asked him if he had found the diary. Bradlee, who claimed he was unaware of his sister-in-law's affair with Kennedy, knew nothing about the diary. He later recalled what he did after Truitt's phone-call: "We didn't start looking until the next morning, when Tony and I walked around the corner a few blocks to Mary's house. It was locked, as we had expected, but when we got inside, we found Jim Angleton, and to our complete surprise he told us he, too, was looking for Mary's diary."

James Angleton, CIA counterintelligence chief, admitted that he knew of Mary's relationship with John F. Kennedy and was searching her home looking for her diary and any letters that would reveal details of the affair. According to Ben Bradlee, it was Mary's sister, Antoinette Bradlee, who found the diary and letters a few days later. It was claimed that the diary was in a metal box in Mary's studio. The contents of the box were given to Angleton who claimed he burnt the diary. Angleton later admitted that Mary recorded in her diary that she had taken '___' with Kennedy before "they made love".

Leo Damore claimed in an article that appeared in the New York Post that the reason Angleton and Bradlee were looking for the diary was that: "She (Meyer) had access to the highest levels. She was involved in illegal drug activity. What do you think it would do to the beatification of Kennedy if this woman said, 'It wasn't Camelot, it was Caligula's court'?" Damore also said that a figure close to the CIA had told him that Mary's death had been a professional "hit".

(Source)

Rose Cheramie

Rose Cheramie was a very peculiar character IMO, somewhat hard to believe at times due to her lifestyle and her habits. But at the same time, It's incredibly difficult to ignore her and what she had to say, primarily because of what it was, and when she was able to say it.

You see, prior to the assassination of the president, I believe Cheramie had inadvertently heard a conversation of sorts involving Jack Ruby and perhaps Oswald while working in Ruby's club - Oswald often visited Jack ruby's club according to Cheramie prior to the assassination and prior to Jack Ruby killing Oswald in what was claimed to be a killing for Jackie Kennedy, according to Ruby.

On the 20th of November though, merely days before the assassination, she was found unconscious by the side of a roadside in Eunice, Louisiana. She claimed that she was thrown out of a car by 2 "gangsters" who was working for Jack Ruby - the club Cheramie was working at.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f1d2523fabb2.jpg[/atsimg]


This is not all though, Cheramie survived this ordeal (what I assume would have been a silence mission - an attempt at silencing her) she claimed to the doctors that the president was to be killed with in a mere few days time, something which because of her rug habits and the fact she appeared to be under the influence at that time (remember, Before bowers had died, he ALSO claimed he thought he had been drugged). The President then did indeed die 2 days later.

As was said though, she was known for drug taking and was seemingly under the influence at this time so It's no surprise her story was ignored, until the assassination of Kennedy had occurred.

It was at this time though people started taking her seriously as she was, quickly after the assassination, reprimanded for questioning by Police and her story about how she came to know this information was told.

Now, this is where the story seems to get sketchy as I can't find much information about what came of this information she gave, or what happened to Cheramie, that is until her own suspicious and timely death in 1965 - One where she allegedly suffered gunshot wounds to the head as well as severe injuries from a car accident.

"Cheramie died of injuries received from an automobile accident on a strip of highway near Big Sandy, Tex., in the early morning of September 4, 1965. The driver stated Cheramie had been lying in the roadway and although he attempted to avoid hitting her, he ran over the top of her skull, causing fatal injuries. An investigation into the accident and the possibility of a relationship between the victim and the driver produced no evidence of foul play. The case was closed" - Louisiana State Police Memo

(Source)

Even so, her death to this day remains suspicious - Not to forget extremely convenient.

Marilyn Monroe

She isn't really a lesser known victim as she was a high profile star and she is often discussed, so I'm not going to discuss her here. The reason I brought her up though, was because I wanted to highlight a separate thread which I really do admire which looks into the case really very well. Please take the time to check it out also - Marilyn Monroe: The Case Reviewed by TheMythLives.




Again, If anyone has any opinions on these individuals, or any other "lesser knows" please do post them, I'd love to hear about more of them. Or please correct me in places if needs be, As I said at the beginning of this post, this has become such a fascinating topic for me and I'm always open to hearing more about it.

Thanks for taking the time to read, any thoughts?

I'm sure you've probably already heard of it or seen it, but there was a documentary that fell down the memory hole. I think it was "The Men who killed Kennedy". It is still out there on youtube, some say it's 5 parts, but you want the version that is 7 episodes.

www.youtube.com... y&aq=0

Fascinating documentary, I believe it even mentions some of the players you mentioned here.

Well written article, you've pulled lots information into an easily readable post. S&F

Let me be the first to congratulate you on producing an excellent thread. Wish there were more people that took the time to research something properly, come with their own theories and analysis.

Getting tired of seeing the same "breaking news, / proof / real" type of topics that get posted even triple by different users in one hour.

Thanks for effort and time spend on this work of information.

reply to post by phishybongwaters


Thanks for the video, I have watched it before but hey, It can't hurt to watch it again.

reply to post by no special characters


And Thanks! Like I said, It's a fascinating topic so It was a lot of fun researching and writing up.

What are you personal thoughts on it out of curiosity?

great post. certain knowledge is bad for ones health.

have you looked down this avenue.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1c794ec36536.gif[/atsimg]

i know there is a thread here on ats but facinating information also to be found by soldierofthelord on www.letsrollforums.com

this clip was submitted in support of the theory that william greer fired the fatal shot but limit your attentions solely to jackie kennedy. i believe that the editing to similar scenes in the zapruder film (where her hand movements immediately following the fatal shot(s) are edited(to hide the weapon and where she placed it) ) have not been performed here.

maybe rubys statement that he shot oswald for jackie will be seen in a new light.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1c794ec36536.gif[/atsimg]

watch it again and again at 200%....she shoots him with her left hand, passes the gun to her right hand, stashes it behind her husband and turns to escape.....

.....JACKIE KENNEDY KILLED JOHN F. KENNEDY

reply to post by pshea38


I'm not discussing the Assassination of JFK. I want to focus on those who NEVER get focused on, that's why I made this thread. I think this is very important so please can we, from now on, focus on the lesser known victims such as those I mentioned in my OP. Thanks.

EDIT TO ADD: Thanks for your post still, but I really do think It's important to focus on these less seen faces.


I'll be happy to discuss that on the thread I linked to near the beginning of this OP though, after all, I strongly with disagree with what you've said.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by pshea38

 

I'm not discussing the Assassination of JFK. I want to focus on those who NEVER get focused on, that's why I made this thread. I think this is very important so please can we, from now on, focus on the lesser known victims such as those I mentioned in my OP. Thanks.

EDIT TO ADD: Thanks for your post still, but I really do think It's important to focus on these less seen faces.

edit on 25-1-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

sorry rising agent. i didn't mean to detract from your hard work.

reply to post by pshea38


Oh, don't apologize. I'm grateful for your post! , It's just I really feel these people (those whom are mentioned in the OP), and the rest like them, deserve a platform such as this to be discussed - in-depth. After all, when one thinks of this case, they are completely cast aside and the shooting itself takes center stage. So, this thread is hopefully an opportunity to change that if only It's for the time being.

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by pshea38

 

Oh, don't apologize.

I'm grateful for your post!

, It's just I really feel these people (those whom are mentioned in the OP), and the rest like them, deserve a platform such as this to be discussed - in-depth. After all, when one thinks of this case, they are completely cast aside and the shooting itself takes center stage. So, this thread is hopefully an opportunity to change that if only It's for the time being.

edit on 25-1-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

agreed. i have a feeling that the deeper you look into these 'peripherals', the more dead people show up. it would probably be worthwhile looking into all secretservice and official individuals who were killed in action or committed suicide in the years following jfk's death. i bet that would bear fruit.

reply to post by pshea38


Yeah, I've started writing up the second part where I take a look at the many others who passed away from somewhat suspicious circumstance also. And there sure are a lot of them.

Bump (!) because i spent a long time researching and writing up.

Very interesting.
Assassination of the witnesses happens a lot.
Suicide or car accidents seem to be their preferred method.

What an absolutely amazing thread.

While reading this, one conjures up the true possibilities...and especially that out of towner...I think I might just look into this a bit more!

Well written and researched...can't wait for your 2nd part. Thank you for your amazingly hard work

reply to post by Rising Against


Once again, great work RA

I've always wanted someone to do a thread on this topic because it's just so unbelievable that so many prominent people died just before and after the assassination, to have them all in one place is great.

I think people get so bogged down in who pulled and trigger and from where they pulled it that they completely miss all of these obviously connected deaths, something I wasn't aware of until I watched Oliver Stone's film, JFK.

What makes this conspiracy so different is that the old saying, "follow the money", really doesn't apply here. Instead, anyone investigating the JFK case should "follow the blood trail", so to speak.

It makes me wonder how many others have been "silenced" in other conspiracy cases, but have yet to be recognised.

Dead men tell no lies

Once again, thanks for the effort you've put in

Originally posted by BlackPoison94
While reading this, one conjures up the true possibilities...and especially that out of towner...I think I might just look into this a bit more!

Thanks and yeah, the "out-of-towner" really is a fascinating figure IMO. I have no doubt he's involved in the demise of Kilgallen in some way or another and tbh, I think I'd personally go as far as saying he was the true culprit.

But, I'm not the only one..



NOTE: Direct copy from my OP:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/229f90af7055.jpg[/atsimg]

Ron Pataky (left) - The man (Possible CIA recruit) whom may have murdered Dorothy Kilgallen (Right)

Lee Israel has always refused to identify the "Out-of-Towner". In 1993 the investigative reporter, David Herschel, discovered that his real name was Ron Pataky. In 1965 he had been a journalist working for the Columbus Citizen-Journal. He admitted that he was the "Out-of-Towner" and that he worked on articles about the assassination of John F. Kennedy with Kilgallen. Pataky also confessed to meeting Kilgallen several times in the Regency Hotel. However, he denied Lee Israel's claim that he was with her on the night of her death.

In December, 2005, Lee Israel admitted that the "Out-of-Towner" was Ron Pataky and that "he had something to do with it (the murder of Dorothy Kilgallen)".

(Source)


After all, and someone please correct me I'm I'm wrong here, but he did come out of nowhere didn't he, he then met Kilgallen (he approached here, not the other way around) at the time she was becoming heavily involved in researching the true outcome of the demise of JFK. (Hoover - The head of FBI allegedly claimed to have files on Kilgallen also - (source)), then Kilgallen claimed she was SO close to cracking this case. But, surprise, surprise, she never had the chance to reveal what she had as less than a week after this claim (a claim that she'd crack this in 5 days time) she died from an apparent suicide (Which makes absolutely no sense what so ever bearing in mind her claims of cracking this case)....



NOTE: Direct copy from my OP

Kilgallen began to tell friends that she was close to discovering who assassinated Kennedy. According to David Welsh of Ramparts Magazine Kilgallen "vowed she would 'crack this case.' And another New York show biz friend said Dorothy told him in the last days of her life: "In five more days I'm going to bust this case wide open." Aware of what had happened to Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe, Kilgallen handed a draft copy of her chapter on the assassination to her friend, Florence Smith.

On 8th November, 1965, Kilgallen, was found dead in her New York apartment. She was fully dressed and sitting upright in her bed. The police reported that she had died from taking a cocktail of alcohol and barbiturates. The notes for the chapter she was writing on the case had disappeared. Her friend, Florence Smith, died two days later. The copy of Kilgallen's article were never found.

SNIPPED MATERIAL - FOLLOW THE SOURCE TO SEE THE REST

(Source)


Then as far as I know, Pataky suddenly disappears (Please correct me if needs me). So, personally, I have absolutely no doubt he was involved in one way or another. And, I believe Kilgallen was also suspicious of him also, which was one of the reasons she gave a copy of her findings to a friend (whom also died 2 days after kilgallen).

Anyway, I really hope more decide to do research on this topic. I really feel It's incredibly important as I have no doubt there's a conspiracy here and It's in plain site. Not to forget, I get the feeling I'm not far from the truth when it comes to my theory on the demise of Kilgallen.

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Rising Against

 

I've always wanted someone to do a thread on this topic because it's just so unbelievable that so many prominent people died just before and after the assassination, to have them all in one place is great.

I think people get so bogged down in who pulled and trigger and from where they pulled it that they completely miss all of these obviously connected deaths, something I wasn't aware of until I watched Oliver Stone's film, JFK.

Thanks ( ) and I agree, I'm currently writing up a second part on the hundreds, and I have no doubt It's in the hundreds, of other witnesses and/or persons involved who had to die afterwards as well btw. A lot of them being mafia figures such as Giancana, nicoletti, roselli etc., and a lot of them CIA/Government officials (One of which was on the warren commission - Thomas Hale Boggs - was never found after a mysterious plane crash In Alaska I believe.)

So, yeah, there really is a lot of figures to discuss and IMO they all more than deserve to be discussed - and for once have the discussion of whom killed JFK cast aside. The assassination is rightly so the remembering factor when someone looks into this entire case admittedly, but I don't feel It deserves the amount of attention It gets.

The "lesser knowns" all deserve a platform such as this to be discussed.

reply to post by Rising Against


Yeah probably all true, but the real truth is all none of us are ever going to know the real truth about this whole JFK stuff for at least 50 - 100 years. That will not be until everyone is past caring, which will take this long. The secret is so embarrassing in that either it was an internal hit or the fact an international government or crime syndicate was able to do this it will not be released for a long long long time. The Warren commission report when released with have big thick black texta censoring all the important bits. This is guaranteed! There are people that will go to any length to protect this as the OP has pointed out! Then to make matters worse the truth is probably already out there but because there are so many theories we cannot "See the leaves for the trees"

I know it has been said but it is threads like this that makes this site what it is , deserves more time than a quick read .
Fantastic effort!

Hello, and thanks for posting...
i enjoyed, if thats apropriate, the well presented info.
one thing ive heard of is this james Angleton.
if not mistaken he may have been impersonating one of the other conspirators....
memory is frail but perhaps dave ferrie?
One thing is certain, the bastards are continuing with the conspiracy today.....it hasnt stopped since the first shot was fired.....the coup goes on.....

Originally posted by stirling
one thing ive heard of is this james Angleton.
if not mistaken he may have been impersonating one of the other conspirators....
memory is frail but perhaps dave ferrie?

Here's a really interesting link on James Angleton which I think you will find interesting.

I don't know much about him admittedly, but I know that link is worth checking out.