I Believe I Have Supporting Evidence That We Aren't Real

reply to post by Itisnowagain


It must be the same as learning something new.At first it all looks so confusing,then comes the Eureka moment! when it all makes sense,but only after some blood sweat and tears.Does the effort pay off.
Whatever the meaning of the human condition is, its my bet that its so simple,that we have missed it.I went back to anecdotes of tribal people..for instance the Innuit...Theirs a pregnant woman in one igloo..and an old man in another..he says to the pregnant woman. "When i die can i have the body of your baby?" She says "yes" knowing the mans a good hunter before he got old.The Old man says "Thats good if i had to wait too long the winds would blow me to far away" He then wanders out into the frozen waste.When the baby is born they call it the same name as the old man.
We are not our bodies,the body has all the defintion of machine.ie.(That which increases effort).allbeit Bio Mechanical.But it does seem to mirror our "Astral" state. Insofar that marks of a previous existance tend to manifest ,with regards to birth marks,where these marks were the cause of the previous incarnations demise. I know that i'm dealing with facts..leading to a deduction..but i'd rather do this than accept a statement based on faith.To have an operational reality it does have to be based on " reasonableness".....Then is it reasonable to say..that cells scraped from a humans mouth...show the same signs of stimulous in a test tube as those cells still in the mouth of the donor a mile appart.This is factual but unresonable to some...So whatever the "Astral" is, three of the dimensions dont worry it. But its obviously in synch with time,for this effect to happen.Therefore the dream state bodies we have and interact with might be created illusions needed for an interactive reality.
In woo woo Witchy Land,one of the main ingredients of casting a spell..was to have a body part of the unfortunate reciepient..be it finger nails or hair...which is "Information" and it would be reasonable to deduce ..part of their astral condition as well. This seems to be Universal in all the shamanistic cultures. It dosn't take much logic to work out the rest. Insofar the Shaman usually goes into a " trance"..Which i guess we might read of as some consiousness state between waking reality..and sleeping reality where he can comunicate with the astral side of the body part...and then formulates unfortunate thoughts and images upon the body part which may or may not be repeated in the unfortunates body during the period of the psychic attack. Of course if you knew what was happening, no doubt their were ways to stop the attack quite easily...but Shamanistic societies are very jealous of letting knowledge get to far abroad. At least this gives a glimpse at what might be reality,suggesting the Astral state might indeed be smeared all over..or rather "Conciousness"..might be smeared all over ..and we might have to create the illusion of compactness in these worlds and the others to have a hope in hell of having a dialogue with the "Whatever"..Phew!

A truly fascinating video and one that this version of myself had missed but maybe my other self caught it when it was on air or another of myself's went around a friends and watched it there......anyway this self missed it and I'm offering you a S+F for bringing it to my attention....as opposed to one of my other self's where its customary to offer a grenade and pin maybe?...who knows....oh my other self does ..... Great thread.
Could this also explain the feelings of deja vous?
If this is indeed the case then we truly are infinite and an obvious curiosity for lets say dimensional visitors, or are they too part of the Augmented Reality?
A profound subject.........

reply to post by Mizzijr


I think the concept is certainly a possiblity, however I think its a bit of circular logic to try to prove it by using examples such as black holes. Since if it were true then the true universe would be completely foreign to us, and likely completely impossible to see or interact with. For instance a Black Hole is an idea ingrained in THIS reality, using THIS realities physics..If this reality is nothing but a holographic construct then it seems quite silly to me to try to assume that this other, greater reality would have physical laws similiar to our own, not to mention objects such as black holes. If the holographic model helps to prove certain anomalies in physics (which it does...at least as one possible explanation, then a greater reality would by its very nature, not have the same anomalies.....unless it itself is a profection from yet ANOTHER even GREATER reality!!!!) I think black holes are a type of thing so ingrained in the Ideas of THIS realities anomalies of gravity and mass, and how they seem to warp space itself, that I just can not fathom any reasonable explanation for why a greater reality would have the same sort of anomaly based construct as a black hole. All in all, however I don't think it really matters. The universe as we know it, is the only possible one we could ever touch. Its sort of like the old story of the Buddhist monk asking the initiate to his Order what he has learned through meditation about Suffering. The initiate replies "Pain in this world is but an Illusion Great Master"....then the Monk says "Well then, I don't suppose you won't mind if I do this!" and begins to smack the initiate on the head very hard with his cane!!! LOL!!!

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Here is a question. What makes me any different than someone you might meet in a dream? Outside of the change in physics between this world and the dream world there is little difference.

Your right I see no difference.

If you think of this universe consisting of only one consciousness then it would be like this......When I look at you I am really just looking at another aspect of my self being that we both originate from the same consciousness. And, if I were asleep and I seen you in my dream am I not just looking at another aspect of my self still, being that all I am seeing in my dream is coming from my own brain?

Have you not met or seen people in your dreams that when you wake you are sure you have never met? Who are they? Just a figment of your imagination? Why did it seem in your dream that you knew them but when you woke you realize you have never met them in "real life"?

I keep dream journals, I meditate, I lucid dream almost on a nightly basis. I am at the point where I can go into a WILD (wake induced lucid dream)

My dreams almost never take place in a place I have seen when awake. I almost never dream of a face I have seen when awake. Who are these people that seem so familiar when I am dreaming but not when I'm awake?

-Alien

reply to post by Mizzijr

I THINK THERES A LOT OF TRUTH in this tougth, i always since i was a kid that i always being watched by somebody up above or in front of me like my life was the center stage or amovie for somebody to watch.i never practice any religion or have a fanatic idea of God,but this proposition seems more sensitive than a bell ringing.

reply to post by Mizzijr


Whatever you've been smoking will you send me some?

The way that understood the commentary about holographic projections, which even the physicist asserted is not fully understood, is not something as simple as the projections of life on this planet are off the event horizon of a black hole. Rather, much as the life information held within the atoms (the building blocks of the universe) are contained on the edge (event horizon) of a black hole, the same may be occurring on the outskirts of our universe (as though our universe is a massive black hole).

Of course I have no idea how this would be or work, the idea is that even the planet itself, even the sun are "projections" from the outskirts.

Let's all keep in mind that math may be inherent, but the symbols (including the numbers 0 through 9 and all the Roman and Greek letters) are all metaphorical representations. The words "projection" and "hologram" as well as "black hole" and even "universe" are all metaphors we use in our language to represent new concepts. We shouldn't base the meaning purely on the basic or popular meaning of the word "projection."

reply to post by tothetenthpower


EXCELLENT

Thank you for posting that video. It has to be one of the most fascinating things I've come upon in a long time!

Uumh...We can't see in our dreams...our brain just has the image of light and whatnot stored and reconstructs it in the dream...

I think that us seeing and experiencing is the event horizon. We are black holes that receive information, but only ever in the present moment. Information is sent (pre sent) and it is received and it disappears. In fact in- form-ation is form that is made inside. All is form, from objects, thoughts, feelings, the body, in fact anything that can be seen or imagined. The thing that sees or receives is not a thing.
Form, information if you like, appears and disappears constantly, sound, colors, thoughts are here and they are gone, moving, changing, unfolding.
The no form is what you are, the one who sees it all.
Are black holes no form?
Are black holes dreaming all of this?

Dreams are very convincing at the time. So is this; what we call the waking state, but how do we know we are really 'awake'? Now i look at this body and think it's mine, but it could just be a character within a dream, in fact all the people i see could be characters in a dream.
But who's dream is it?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Consider this,a person is born into the world a lone child without family,as that person grows and has no siblings the person views the world differently,he/she has no sibling rivialry to live with and in older life no angst against other siblings.
Now consider a person with a large family each person not being alone,but their perspectives are different ,sibling rivalry makes them feel alone and isolated.
It does`nt matter we are all growing and going to somewhere,like information exchanging..

Here is a video that supports the OP's idea.
*Quantum Physics* Welcome To The Matrix

reply to post by Alien Abduct


Very good sentiments and dimensional thinking.Truly enlightening in its spectrum for massaging the mind... .However there are starving children and folks all over the world ,whoms belly does`nt subsidance such thinking and are not spoilt for intellequetual wealth because they are poor,destitute,but however closer to a creator than ,you,I,or anybody else could ever be,this life is not a logans run NWO movie,and diverse people live and survive by what mother earth provides,they do not feel so alone to seek intellectual massaging for their neurons.
Good though and very true,we are part of a bigger picture,how good are we to our fellow inhabitants or ourselves that we sit alone ,thinking ,deep ,selfish ,intellectual rubix cube ideas for pleasure without seeing the true matter of life around, decaying and being destroyed by our own ignorance of ourseves in our own bubbles.
Just so happens the universe is a bubble..go figure..Now I need to meditate to forget my starving belly,or rather ignore the reality...and expand my bubble into the bubble telescope.
Really I agree,I started a thread "Its official the earth is cracking up",this was ,in hindsight absolutely true,if it is true that consciousness affects reality then,its official the earth is cracking up ,could or should cause it too,has it,you decide,you choose,you create your reality and the fate of others.The thread is a opener to the imagination,what one believes to be true in ones mind either is true or is untrue,I meditate that the world is not cracking up and that enough people thinking on the cracking up would prevent another haiti,by pure focus of intent,so many no`s thinking subconsciously on it that no disaster would happen,however on a conscious level inhabitants in a region exhibit consciously awake cracking up .Pure Carl Jung, remember him.Plus physics each action has a equal and opposite reaction.
Zen...Karma...Altriuism...Peace.
if we really want free energy we will,if we really want to see into another distant place in realtime,we will,if enough people believe the planet is totally globally warming then it will freeze,.if this is true then ,what can yoo say?

Originally posted by lestweforget
I just completed doing what i should done before my initial post and watched part 1&2 and another short film on the two slit experiment.
The opening sentence of part 1 states, For most of the time the world is hidden from our sences.
No its not! I only sleep on average 6 hours per day, that is less than a third.

Some other statements i cant accept,
1. Relating to quantum phisics common scense is no guide.
That opens up a pandoras box of possibilities that no one can sensibly question.
2. One phisicist proudly explains the two slit experiment changes reality.
Just because a photon (single particle of light) passes through two slits and shows up on a screen behind as three slits doent change reality, thats like saying an optical illusion changes reality.
3. Part 2 states that the theory of quantum reality is the strangest discovery ever.
Since when is a theory classed as a discovery?
4. We can change reality just by looking at it.
PLEASE! That will do me. The example of a thermometer taking temperature used by a previous poster is seriously flawed.

I know im not the sharpest tool in the shed but it seems quite obvious to me these guys are wasting their time on these theories for without quantum computers there is no quantum phisics, surely these great minds can be used more efficiently.

I think the problem is that you're trying to understand quantum mechanics in "everyday reality" terms. As any quantum physicist can tell you, this is well-nigh impossible. These physicists arrive at their conclusions mostly through the language of mathematics, but the quantum reality they have arrived at could not be conceptualized or visualized using our ordinary reality. This is why they say "common sense is no guide." It doesn't mean it doesn't make sense; merely that quantum reality operates (or seems to operate) under a totally different set of laws.

I think you should read up on quantum mechanics a bit more before branding it as rubbish. Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean it is invalid.

Originally posted by daryllyn
Sorry if anyone else already asked this..

But what about pain? Is that real? I am talking about extreme pain (ie, childbirth, kidney stones, etc).

Pain is also ultimately dependent on the mind. It can be controlled with the mind. Yogis and other mystics can do this. This has even been demonstrated in scientific experiments. And yes, this includes "extreme pain." Just because you feel pain doesn't mean it is proof that this is the ultimate reality.

Originally posted by dude69
Uumh...We can't see in our dreams...our brain just has the image of light and whatnot stored and reconstructs it in the dream...

On that note we can't see when we are awake neither. Our brain is the instrument perceiving the light of which our eyes our feeding it. Behind our eyes is complete blackness. This information that our eyes send us and the information that all our senses send us for that matter is subject to interpretation by our brains.

Our interpretation is subject to our perspective, our perspective is subject to our psychological viewpoint of which has been subjected to and thereby groomed by our environment.

-Alien

The first mistake

It is complicated to come to any kind of definite view of reality, we certainly are trying to come to a conclusion. It seems that we are really peeling an onion that never stops growing, with each layer peeled we are surprised with another convincing truth. How can we say that we are not living in a false reality? How can we say where we really are? How can we say we are real? Do we really need to be real? This is what was great about the movie "blade runner" What is the difference between robots and us? The whole story pointed towards an original sin and where it leads. Sin, I read recently means to miss the point, is that not what all great magicians look to do?

reply to post by ancientthunder


If we are looking for an unchanging reality there is one. If we are talking about reality that is ever changing, impermanent, there is that also. There is the no- thing that is seeing, experiencing, this never changes. Then there is the every-thing, which is everything that can be named, the movie of life. Yet neither appear alone they come together as a package. The experience and the experiencer, two sides of the same coin.