Feds come knocking for home inspections

Thought this was an interesting article with a few too many questions left unanswered:

A sanitation district in Pennsylvania has notified homeowners that its representatives will be making personal visits to every structure served by its network of drainpipes because that's what the federal Environmental Protection Agency is demanding. The letter informs homeowners the inspections will probably take only about 15 minutes, but that all properties "will be considered a source of clear water discharges until an inspection can be conducted." The effort, according to officials at the Coplay Whitehall Sewer Authority, is to prevent water from sources such as sump pumps or downspouts from being channeled into a water treatment process.

"I do consider this the equivalent of illegal search and invasion of my home without just cause and [it] establishes a situation where I am guilty and must prove innocence," one homeowner, who asked that his identity be withheld, told WND.

"This inspection is to determine if I am 'discharging' 'clean water' into the sewer system. At no point in the letter does it say exactly what will be looked at, (I guess leaky faucets will be a crime) what else may be being evaluated while my property is being inspected, what is on the 'check list' or report that is being done, and really exactly who is doing the inspection," he said.

Feds Come Knocking...

Ok. Time for a few questions:

Why is the EPA all of a sudden so concerned about "clear water discharge"? (Which seems to mean water that has already been processed at the treatment plant going into the sewer system and/or sump pumps or downspouts from being channeled into a water treatment process.) WHAT!?

all properties "will be considered a source of clear water discharges until an inspection can be conducted."

What exactly does this mean? If you don't let them inspect, they're going to shut off your water till you do?

At first, it sounds as though the EPA is demanding home inspections. Then, it says CWSA finds it necessary in order to comply. Which is it?

The effort, according to officials at the Coplay Whitehall Sewer Authority, is to prevent water from sources such as sump pumps or downspouts from being channeled into a water treatment process.

Now, tell me if I'm misinterpreting this, but does this mean thay want to see if your filtering rainwater or pumped water to make it drinkable? Or am I just being cynical?

The sanitation district's own website confirms there apparently are other ways to obtain some information, since it describes how it "utilizes a 'state of the art' television inspection system, reviewing 30 miles of line/year to assure maintenance of an exemplary 'tight' system."

Somehow, this all just sounds too convenient. And how is it that either one has the right to demand access to your home?

As additional info, I went to the EPA's site and looked up "Sanitary Sewer Overflows".
cfpub.epa.gov...

The Constitution clearly states that a warrant must be issued in order to search citizens property.

Nuff said.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourth Amendment

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The Constitution clearly states that a warrant must be issued in order to search citizens property.

Nuff said.

Agreed. But it looks like they're gonna search approximately 13,500 homes illegally then.

This is 100% B.S. They can't accuse you of being guilty of violations until proven innocent. This will get challenged in court, no doubt.

The drive behind this DATA. They don't have information about their systems they should have, and this is an effort on their part to get the data they need.

Around the country utility departments are trying to get their water/sewer systems stored into computer databases so they can "model" their systems for potential issues, improvements, planning, etc.

The problem is that for the last 40+ years they've been sitting on their butts raking in the money and not improving their systems. Now those systems are beginning to fall apart, so they NEED the DATA the engineers require to know how to plan for improvements.

I know, because this is a big part of my job (consulting for utility departments).

reply to post by harrytuttle

Exactly. But they don't even say they have found anything.

Originally posted by muzzleflashThe Constitution clearly states that a warrant must be issued in order to search citizens property.
Nuff said.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fourth Amendment

edit on 23-1-2011 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

While I do agree with you in principle one needs to pick one's battles; the EPA is not a law enforcement agency which is why your argument will not hold (no pun intended) water if you should chose to not allow them to inspect your home. If they started talking about lead paint, windows, or any other such nonsense or had carbon monoxide detectors and other devices with them - I'd question their true intent and kick their asses out.

I'd also demand a copy of whatever report or notes where submitted or generated from such an inspection as a condition of admission.

The water works will argue that you chose to have city water and therefore must submit to their "inspection" to continue to have service. You could have a well dug I suppose and septic installed if you didn't want city services, maybe not though I don't know the laws in this area.

I personally would not enjoy such an intrusion but I also have nothing to hide; if you have a basement access just let them in that way so they are not going through your house. They can see the pipes and drains they are looking for and you don't have the feds stopping through your stuff...win-win.

Just my 2 cents and we all know a penny isn't worth what it once was.

here's my question..
exactly what could possibly be in the water that wouldn't be allowed into the treatment process? i mean, after all, it IS sewer water. water from run offs all over the city, drainage from the streets (road dust, motor oil, transmission fluid and fuel), job sites(oil, hydraulic fluid, various chemicals)... urine (human and otherwise), animal fecal matter. you mean they think, the stuff coming from your home is worse than that? maybe it's just me.. but that seems a little nuts.
or maybe i'm just not understanding...

or.. are they looking for something? some one should keep an eye on this story..

reply to post by Golf66

If I'm understanding the article correctly, they want access to the whole house and property. At least it seems to insinuate as much.

The inspections are happening all around PA. And there is no longer a choice to "opt out" of the municipal water source. In over a dozen places I have checked you are no longer allowed to have your own well. In the past year, stimulus money was used to ensure that all people in the municipality were connected to the system. In my particular area, residents had the choice to allow workers to do it for them (for $1200), or they could do it themselves as long as they payed the $100 inspection fee afterward to meet specifications.

Even residents formerly connected to home well systems were required to be linked into the system, and starting this year will be charged for their water usage.

Rest assured, if any inspections come around my area, I will fight it. Based on the sound of that forewarning, it does indeed sound like they are inspecting simply to make sure that people are not getting their water from any other source other than the city supply.

This is downright unconstitutional as it is; to throw and illegal search/inspection to the mix only raises the stakes even farther.

reply to post by gwydionblack

Now it's all starting to make more sense. I knew they were looking for something. But it sounds like they're looking for people who are filtering or "processing" their own water of any kind. Rainwater, wells, etc.
Thanks for that info.

Originally posted by harrytuttle
This is 100% B.S. They can't accuse you of being guilty of violations until proven innocent. This will get challenged in court, no doubt.

The drive behind this DATA. They don't have information about their systems they should have, and this is an effort on their part to get the data they need.

Around the country utility departments are trying to get their water/sewer systems stored into computer databases so they can "model" their systems for potential issues, improvements, planning, etc.

The problem is that for the last 40+ years they've been sitting on their butts raking in the money and not improving their systems. Now those systems are beginning to fall apart, so they NEED the DATA the engineers require to know how to plan for improvements.

I know, because this is a big part of my job (consulting for utility departments).

edit on 23-1-2011 by harrytuttle because: (no reason given)

The sanitation district's own website confirms there apparently are other ways to obtain some information, since it describes how it "utilizes a 'state of the art' television inspection system, reviewing 30 miles of line/year to assure maintenance of an exemplary 'tight' system."

Do this system not store computer data? Or is it strictly for monitoring?

A shower filter is necessary if you have city or municipal water to keep from absorbing chlorine through the skin.
A good reverse Osmosis filter can be had for a few hundred to filter out "legal levels" of contaminants along with our favorite and most widely used neurological poison - fluoride.

Good luck.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Golf66

 

If I'm understanding the article correctly, they want access to the whole house and property. At least it seems to insinuate as much.

If that is true I would tell them to - "suck it" as they can't see anything in the walls.

The only pipes they can see are the ones that are exposed. Like I said; I'd go along if they demonstrated their intent clearly but a "Hey, let's have a look around" inspection and I would send em packing.

I am so glad I have moved to the country - my well; my water and my sewage is my responsibility and strictly my business.

Welcome to the police state - may I recommend any place in NW Missouri for relocation. The cost of living is cheap, gun laws are relaxed, you can kill someone to protect your property etc.

However, there are no real jobs other than agriculture unless you live in the city.

I am retired military and have my 40 acres paid for so income is not an issue for me - we grow raise most of our food not much I need money for other than my kids entertainment and education.

reply to post by Golf66

In my area, wells cannot be used. But so far, they haven't forced anyone to fill them in. No new wells can be drilled though.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by Golf66

 

In my area, wells cannot be used. But so far, they haven't forced anyone to fill them in. No new wells can be drilled though.

edit on 23-1-2011 by Klassified because: Grammar

Correction: Existing wells can be used, but not for drinking or bathing, etc. and not connected to the faucets inside the house.

This sounds like the same situation we have in urban areas of Oz which makes the intent of the inspections less 'evil' than it's being made out to be. The core problem they're addressing (or trying to) is that sewage treatment facilities get inundated every time it rains which necessitates huge investment in increasing holding & treatment capacity. That increase during rain means that a lot of 'clean water' in the form of stormwater is being channelled into the sewers instead of into stormwater drains where it should be going and locating the major offending locations will potentially save a lot of municipal money (when it's repaired/altered).

The basic rules of what can & can't go into parts of the waste water system would be laid down in the government Act or legislation that established the local authority and deliberately channelling stormwater into the sewer mains is universally discouraged which doesn't stop people doing it for expediency though.

To ensure safe access to inspect selected properties, the official inspector could be accompanied by law enforcement officer(s) of course and the 'inspection' can be as simple as introducing a flourescein dye to the upper end of the onsite stormwater system (roof gutter downpipe) and observing for signs of it in the sewage main outlet.

ETA: Just to stay slightly on the conspiracy side of the fence here
These 'inspectors' often have extensive rights of access for purpose of performing their duties, in fact greater legal right of access than law enforcement personnel without the need of a search warrant. Police officers can (& do) gain access to properties without a warrant by accompanying the inspectors to ensure they get the unimpeded access they require. Of course, while there, the police may just happen to have a good look around at the same time







.

reply to post by Pilgrum

Thanks for that addition. This is something the article didn't cover very well. And this part is somewhat understandable. So what is the necessity for entering someones home then? Couldn't all of this be checked from outside?

reply to post by Klassified


The search can be narrowed down from outside just by checking flow volumes in various branches of the mains but ultimately sites will need to be entered and inspected in order to find the exact point where clean water is getting into the system.

ETA: Just to stay slightly on the conspiracy side of the fence here These 'inspectors' often have extensive rights of access for purpose of performing their duties, in fact greater legal right of access than law enforcement personnel without the need of a search warrant. Police officers can (& do) gain access to properties without a warrant by accompanying the inspectors to ensure they get the unimpeded access they require. Of course, while there, the police may just happen to have a good look around at the same time

This being good ole US of A. Most of us know, if they want in your home, they're always after something more or other than what they say they are.

Thanks again for your expertise. It's always great to have some input from folks who work in the field of topic.