Vermont Is Gearing Up to Strike a Major Blow to Corporate Personhood

Originally posted by Flatfish
I believe that you have totally missed the point. I do not advocate limiting the speech of any human being nor have I promoted the idea that we should impair someones ability to redress their government. The whole point here is that corporations are not people. Our constitution does not guarantee that voice to corporate entities. I think it says something like; "Of, By & For, The People." IMO, No entity other than individual members of the living, breathing, pool of citizen voters, should be given the right to redress their government. If you can't vote, then you shouldn't have a voice.

After rereading yours and my comments I might have slightly missed some of your points you have been trying to make, but the overall understanding was there.

Take for instance the above you have written. In your opinion you believe that only a registered voter (human being) should be able to redress their government. The problem is, under the current and past administrations they have intertwined government into every aspect of not only the people, but of businesses. By doing so, those businesses are directly affected by the actions that take place in the halls of Congress.

In that, do they not have the right to redress the government in regards to the policies or laws made against them? Or do they have to go through red-tape, set up a PAC, spend more money, and jump through hoops to redress?
Furthermore, my definition of the corporate elite would go something like this; Anyone who can afford to hire a paid lobbyist and send them to Washington to bribe our elected officials into passing legislation centered around their special interest.

Currently, Lobbyist lined up outside the offices of our congressmen & women on a daily basis are the biggest impediment to my ability to redress my government. The voice of common voter is being drowned out by special interest money. Ever hear the old saying; "Money Talks & Bull# Walks?" Guess who has all the money?

Is not then also the blame of the politicians? Lobbying, may it be from the people or from paid persons that I have hired to represent my company are an essential part of the system. It is this concept, the part where a corporation has paid someone to represent them in Washington that will always be protected. This is an area we don't need more government. We need less. Especially the tax codes and the loop-holes that allow such corporate welfare and power to exist.

reply to post by ownbestenemy


Sorry, but America was not established on the principle that corporations should have a representative government. However, it was established on the belief that "People" should. When paid lobbyist are able to crowd the actual voter out of the room, how are the people supposed to be heard? Check out what's going on here; www.msnbc.msn.com... Here's a few other examples; www.huffingtonpost.com...
www.glgroup.com...

Yes, politicians are to blame. The reason that politicians won't move to eliminate paid lobbyist is due to the fact that becoming a paid lobbyist after leaving congress is part of their retirement plan. It just perpetuates the corruption and we should not allow it to continue.

The people who work for corporations should be able to lobby congress, the people who invest in corporations should be able to lobby congress, the owners of the corporations should be able to lobby congress but no one should be allowed to pay someone else to lobby congress. So long as this is allowed to continue, those without money will have no voice and what we end up with is a government that is "Of, By & For Corporate Interest."

reply to post by Flatfish


I never said that a business operating under the legal definition of a corporation is a major player within a representative government, but you cannot exclude that people occupy those businesses. There is no law that states, nor should there be, I cannot pay someone to lobby Congress. The corporation itself is not lobbying, there is a person representing that business doing so.

Most want to levy the blame for corrupt lobbying all upon the businesses doing so when it should be the apathetic and ignorant voter along with easily swayed politicians to allow the Government to control the markets via lobbying.