The Truth about Libertarians

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Actually I am free, I do what I want when I want. Just a happy coincidence that what I want to do doesn't conflict with any laws.

Sorry, but libertarians want every single thing privatized, do you know what that means? That means that corporations run absolutely everything. You seriously think that corporations care about your freedom? They don't, they care only about their bottom line.

Seriously, completely private education? How exactly would that work out for inner city kids? How would that work out for the poor? Not too well I imagine.

And don't you think that if I wanted a 401K I would go out and get one? How did those do when the economy tanked? Gee, I bet a lot of people who were once pretty set in their retirement had to scramble for other sources of income. I don't think that handing the money I have invested in my retirement via social security needs to be given to the Bernie Madoffs of the world. Somehow I just don't think that AIG is a trustworthy company to trust with my retirement.

The libertarian ideal of society would create a serf overlord state where the poor would be stomped on and the wealthy would hold all the power and there would be no protections for the weakest among us.

It's supposed to be WE the People, not ME the People.

reply to post by whatukno


Libertarians seem to want personal responsibility. Things like the education for inner city kids are the problem of the culture that they have become a part of. You create your own future. If you are waiting for a hero to save you, what you will get is a tyrant to enslave you.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty. " - Thomas Jefferson

Timidity is not a trait that I find myself drawn to.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I understand the viewpoint libertarians take.

Basically, libertarians feel that this world is me first and screw the rest of society.

It's an understanding of "I want what I want and [snip] you or anyone else"

Libertarians don't seem to want a unified unified United States, they want a dysfunctional grouping of tiny tiny (house sized) countries with absolutely ZERO government.

The only difference between Libertarians and a country full of insane psycho killers is the country of insane psycho killers would be more united.

My problem with the Libertarian ideal is that what we need more than anything is protection from those who wield all the power. Take away the laws protecting us and leave the corporate elite to their own devices and the Corporatism we see now will multiply into an even bigger monster.

Libertarism - Survival of the fittest. Want your neighbors land? Just shoot him and take it! Thats what I am afraid Libertarism will bring to this country although that example is a little extreme.

reply to post by whatukno


Amazing how in a world of infinite variation and possibility you can write off the entire future of mankind in such a certain and specific way.

Truly you must be clairvoyant. Or an idiot. Whichever.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Libertarism - Survival of the fittest. Want your neighbors land? Just shoot him and take it! Thats what I am afraid Libertarism will bring to this country although that example is a little extreme.

Why would you? Is it worth becoming an enemy of everyone?

If you so wanted to shoot someone and take their land/property now what is preveting that? Not the "law." The "law" only come after the fact.

People need to stop watching all of these apocalypse movies and playing these apocalypse games. Seriously.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

I understand the viewpoint libertarians take.

Basically, libertarians feel that this world is me first and screw the rest of society.

It's an understanding of "I want what I want and [snip] you or anyone else"

Libertarians don't seem to want a unified unified United States, they want a dysfunctional grouping of tiny tiny (house sized) countries with absolutely ZERO government.

The only difference between Libertarians and a country full of insane psycho killers is the country of insane psycho killers would be more united.

Lots of emotional, fear driven rhetoric in that. Not sure what to say. But given that the Libertarians support a view put forth by our founding fathers, who mop the floor of intellectualism with the mental midgets in politics today, I have far more faith in them than the "Republicrats".

Less government = more freedom. Unless you have a viewpoint that reconciles that single truth, It is likely not something I will be interested in.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I am more of a We The People kind of guy, not a Me The Person kind of guy.

I believe in the United States, stronger together, weaker apart, you know, "a house divided against itself cannot stand."?

I would rather live in a Republic with a government than a corporate oligarchy which is exactly what Libertarians endorse.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
Libertarism - Survival of the fittest. Want your neighbors land? Just shoot him and take it! Thats what I am afraid Libertarism will bring to this country although that example is a little extreme.

Why would you? Is it worth becoming an enemy of everyone?

If you so wanted to shoot someone and take their land/property now what is preveting that? Not the "law." The "law" only come after the fact.

People need to stop watching all of these apocalypse movies and playing these apocalypse games. Seriously.

WTH are you talking about? Apocalypse?

What I am saying is that if you let man be man with no consequences for his actions then things will turn much worse than they are now.

reply to post by whatukno


I think you have a fear driven opinion of what a Liberterian endorses. Right now it certainly isn't "We The People".

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Who said there are no consequences? If we are to discuss this, you cannot make up erroneous facts to inject into the conversation.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I disagree, it still is WE the people, I thought this last election showed that.

Alaska is a perfect example of how this system still works, Lisa Murkowski won in Alaska despite being a write in candidate, it really does work, but you have to try.

Just privatizing everything doesn't solve problems, all that does is give more power to multinational corporations which already hold too much power in this government.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
What I am saying is that if you let man be man with no consequences for his actions then things will turn much worse than they are now.

But there are consequences even without "law."

It's not like "law" as a consequence has made the world any safer. Is the consequence of "law" the only thing keeping you civil? Is it?

Besides, libertarian does not equate to lawlessness.


Seeing these ridiculous ideas people have I'm beginning to wonder if there isnt some type of maturity gap between those who seek liberty and those who fear it. Some magical trait which civilizes one by default and where the other must feel civility is enforced through violence.

reply to post by whatukno


'I find there are two ways to decide your political views.

1. You absorb your parents beliefs
2. Your life outcomes determine your beliefs.

Hence the poor vote Democrat usually, because they get hand outs. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

The Middle Class and Wealthy usually vote more Conservative than most, and the vast majority of Libertarians and "Tea Party" members were Middle Class.

It's not surprising.

And for your information, most of our states are twice the size of European countries. We'd get along just fine without a Federal Government stealing our money and throwing it away.

Let's look at the Libertarian ideal utopia of a completely privatized society.

Education: If you have the money you can get a decent education. Don't have the money? Well your screwed, which means being cut off from opportunities. Furthering the divide between the haves and the have nots.

Law Enforcement/Emergency Services: Well this is an easy one, without any laws, there would be no need for law enforcement, and like the anarchist, the libertarian thinks that no crimes are ever committed. But, if you do think you may be in danger, in the privatized society if you have the money you can pay for private security forces. Get yourself a Wakenhut security guard to protect you.

Of course, along with this is the freedom of no speed limits. But of course everyone always drives correctly and no one ever drives drunk.

House fire? Better hope you can pay the bill for the fire department. No longer being subsidized by a government, Fire services will hand you a hefty bill to extinguish what is left of your smoldering ruin of a house.

Health Care: The libertarian believes that the health care system should only be open to those that can afford it. If not, well, you aren't worth enough to society to bother with anyway and your slow and painful demise will only serve as a lesson to others to not be poor.

Of course if you can afford Health Insurance, the libertarian thinks it's perfectly acceptable for those health insurance companies to drop you if you are deemed too much of a financial liability.

Infrastructure: Oh won't all those toll bridges and roads be nice?

Oh and let's think about this, you have a job, nice good steady work, then for some reason you get fired. Better find another job in a hurry, no unemployment insurance, no food stamps, no social safety net of any kind. So better find some sort of work quick.

Can't find a job? Well I am sure that starvation isn't TOO horrible of a way to die.

Oh speaking of horrible ways to die. You make it to your golden retirement years, and your 401K is about to mature, oops, all of a sudden theres a market crash, oh, so sorry, but your retirement is worth about as much as a big mac at the local McDonnalds you will be forced to work at till the day you die.

YAY privatized society!

Oh and don't worry about all that smog, the corporations without the jack boots at the EPA know best and that brown air is just fine for you. Oh what's that smell coming out of your tap, don't worry bout that, sure your water may now be flammable but corporations know whats best.

Sure there are massive constant oil spills in the gulf and off of every shore, but corporations know whats best.

Hey! Wasn't this a national park? Not anymore, now it's a strip mining operation! Natural resources? More like PROFIT!

I wonder, what would the Libertarians do about a military? PMCs? Basically our army would be replaced by mercenaries?

reply to post by whatukno


So what your saying is you know absolutely nothing about Libertarianism?

Originally posted by whatukno
Let's look at the Libertarian ideal utopia of a completely privatized society.

Education: If you have the money you can get a decent education. Don't have the money? Well your screwed, which means being cut off from opportunities. Furthering the divide between the haves and the have nots.

Law Enforcement/Emergency Services: Well this is an easy one, without any laws, there would be no need for law enforcement, and like the anarchist, the libertarian thinks that no crimes are ever committed. But, if you do think you may be in danger, in the privatized society if you have the money you can pay for private security forces. Get yourself a Wakenhut security guard to protect you.

Of course, along with this is the freedom of no speed limits. But of course everyone always drives correctly and no one ever drives drunk.

House fire? Better hope you can pay the bill for the fire department. No longer being subsidized by a government, Fire services will hand you a hefty bill to extinguish what is left of your smoldering ruin of a house.

Health Care: The libertarian believes that the health care system should only be open to those that can afford it. If not, well, you aren't worth enough to society to bother with anyway and your slow and painful demise will only serve as a lesson to others to not be poor.

Of course if you can afford Health Insurance, the libertarian thinks it's perfectly acceptable for those health insurance companies to drop you if you are deemed too much of a financial liability.

Infrastructure: Oh won't all those toll bridges and roads be nice?

Oh and let's think about this, you have a job, nice good steady work, then for some reason you get fired. Better find another job in a hurry, no unemployment insurance, no food stamps, no social safety net of any kind. So better find some sort of work quick.

Can't find a job? Well I am sure that starvation isn't TOO horrible of a way to die.

Oh speaking of horrible ways to die. You make it to your golden retirement years, and your 401K is about to mature, oops, all of a sudden theres a market crash, oh, so sorry, but your retirement is worth about as much as a big mac at the local McDonnalds you will be forced to work at till the day you die.

YAY privatized society!

Oh and don't worry about all that smog, the corporations without the jack boots at the EPA know best and that brown air is just fine for you. Oh what's that smell coming out of your tap, don't worry bout that, sure your water may now be flammable but corporations know whats best.

Sure there are massive constant oil spills in the gulf and off of every shore, but corporations know whats best.

Hey! Wasn't this a national park? Not anymore, now it's a strip mining operation! Natural resources? More like PROFIT!

I wonder, what would the Libertarians do about a military? PMCs? Basically our army would be replaced by mercenaries?

edit on 1/28/2011 by whatukno because: (no reason given)

This is a masterpiece of half thought out supposition. Congrats...you are a veritable Michelangelo.

You seem to have this illusion that things run well as it is. That unemployment is not meant to exist as a slush funded by employers, or that things like education and fire departments lie at the local level. Or that if you didn't pay property taxes you would have money left over for your childs tuition. Or that, at the age of 70, you shouldn't have to pay taxes to support a local school district.

So...what do you base the fiction that you type up on? Jaqermeister?

My biggest issue with libertarians is that they completely ingore positive liberty. They act like if negative liberty is all that is to liberalism.

More extreme forms of libertarianism are also against basic human rights.

reply to post by Rockpuck

So what your saying is you know absolutely nothing about Libertarianism?

I am taking my view on Libertarianism from the link in the OP. How am I wrong?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

This is a masterpiece of half thought out supposition. Congrats...you are a veritable Michelangelo.

Actually I thought it was well thought out and pretty much supports the ideals held by Libertarians. But thank you for the complement anyway, I do try and find the truth in the matter no matter what it is.

You seem to have this illusion that things run well as it is.

Actually no, I don't think that things run well as it is, everything has room for improvement, however some things are better left to the people and not to private corporations. See, I subscribe to the socialist ideal of WE the People, and trying to form a more perfect union. and I don't want this country turning into a Corporate Oligarchy like it appears that Libertarians want.

reply to post by muzzleflash


The "Authoritarians" pass laws that let the state tell you what to do.

The Libertarians redact laws so that the wealthy can tell you what to do.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd rather live in an America with a mild aroma of authoritarianism, than the libertarian dream of an America that looks like a Philippine "Free Market Zone."