Why we could never win, Ten years ongoing by a Soldier

I see it all the time on the news, when people talk even here on ATS. They talk about the wars. Well I want to talk about just one. Iraq let me clear a few things up about Iraq. There hasn't been a war there in almost nine and a half year. The only War there can be said to have taken place. Was at the start and let me tell you that was no war.

That was shooting Fish in a barrel. More to the Point of this thread tho To tell the side of the story that isn't talked about much I can't speak for all the Soldiers out their. I can't give you a huge over view, I can only Give you my Side that took place when I was there. I can only tell you why I think we can't win this war.

I was a 31B MP doing Convoy Sec out of Camp Taji Iraq we rolled to all four points on the Map. I left a part of me their as all soldiers do, if you saw combat you can say that you never really came home. What did my brothers die for? hell I don't know I"m still trying to figure that one out. To make it easy on us we fought for land we fought to keep the roads open. We fought to keep our convoy safe. we fought to protect each other.

One big Police action made up of hundreds of little battles a day. What they don't really tell you on the news. Is that in the latter part of this ten years maybe the last five. The Soldiers stopped being the main target. The Soldiers got caught in the middle of a civil war. The sunnis vs shiites there are other fractions there as well.
but those are the two main ones.

Now we come to the crux of the situation. small little story about how we cannot win. Tango takes down two soldiers and blows up 10 Civi's starts shooting and has us pinned. Well we take him out. guess who just took his place. You have to remember this just like us is some ones dad,brother son friend. in ten min's time it took you to kill that S.O.B there are now ten more in his place.

Family's a big deal their not like in the states. In less than ten hours time if they find out we killed the S.O.B were getting attacked.. (most of the family's in the states don't find out for at least 24-48 hours depending)
so now our nameless faceless enemy has just doubled (for sake of argument)

How do you win? There is no way the united states or any country over their win! It can't be done in this age and day with out the host nation getting attacked by other nations for the atrocities it would take.

I could tell you how to win that war in both country's and have our soldiers home in a few months time. I tell you if we did it we would the soldiers would lose more of their souls than they already have. We can get our heads taken off but we can't do the same. our hands are tied.

to win we would have to be worse than the enemy to break them to win we would have to destroy them. In their culture that would mean eradicating them all. I can tell you as a soldier that I couldn't do that.. we know its the only way to win. In doing it we would also lose.

There is no Victory in this we can't win and be under the R.O.E of we have to be better than them. You wonder why so many soldiers are killing them self's rather than go back? I don't mean to sound like I'm better than you because I"m not. I'm just telling you the truth, you don't understand. sure you can grasp the concept of war. but you haven't lived thru it, you haven't seen it.

put your self in our boots for a change. If you saw your best friend get his head blown off.. or your four friend die in less than a half sec due to an E.F.P would you be able to really talk about it. With people who don't know what its like or even what your talking about?

Their is a reason I say you don't know. When we come back no one listens to us. They give us Drugs phyic meds and what not. to try and shut us up. Like we would really talk to the pricks at the V.A any ways.
They don't know what we did. what we sacrificed who we sacrificed. to get the job done to get home.

what most wont tell you when they say they left a little part of them self's their.. that little part? It was their soul...

Sorry to Rant sorry if you don't like what I have to say. sorry that we couldn't win.

The only way to have REALLY won was when we first went in
to bomb the whole place out of existence. Did not have to be nuclear.
I understand then even the innocent people would of died.
I do not believe this war was really for us to win.
I think it has now become a test area.
The soldiers are the test subjects.
They are testing the new drones, the new spy satellites,
what ever else they have. You don't know how something works
until you test it for real. I give all respect to the Military service people.
Thanks for serving.
We are keeping muslim extremist on the run, and testing our new toys..
I think that is what it boild down to..
Besides you military guys would get sour if you didn't have any live action.
Got to keep you guys enganged, in case of a real war and attack on America, you guys will know
exactly what to do.
This is not about *winning* we killed more of them then they did of us.
I call that a win anyday.

This is experimental war it is not meant to win.

If they really were trying to *win* as you put, it would of been leveled.
They would of let the arabs repopulate it, it would work out alright for a while,
well atleast until they started another civil war again...

Just wanted to point out the soldiers side of things. I'm not talking about the officers either the grunts. Were not there to test any thing. Were there to keep our buddy's alive.

I'm so sorry Reaper for what you've been through. How do you feel about the invasion of Iraq in the beginning. What do you think it was really for?

well truth be told I don't buy the O.S but I can tell you from what I saw I didn't see any WMD's saw some pretty bad ass bunkers tho one was a bio lab state of the art for the 1980's but it was empty still had writing in arabic on the boards. couldn't say tho when was the last time it was used.

I think we went in their thinking it was going to be a quick win just like in the 1990's but once the war was over a few hours later. we set to starting the rebuilding we found out we bit off more than we can chew.

there is no way to win this war.. you would have to kill off every one in the region.. like I said that would just cost us more lives in a bigger war.

Afghanistan is even worse and longer, eh? Yet that's been seemingly downplayed and at times virtually ignored. We should have taken a huge lesson from the Soviets on that one. But no....

The soviets most likely came to the same conclusion we did.. you can win but at what cost? the soviets could have plowed thru and killed every one.. and for a while their it looked like they were going to.. but they didn't why? same reason we don't we can't fight like that and maintain that were better than they are.. if we were to throw in the towel and start going after them as they did us.

I think this war would be over by next week..

reply to post by Reaper2137


Your rant is more than justified its what we are all thinking. My cousin served over in afghanistan the year before last and will be returning for a second tour later this year. When i see him he doesnt have war storys, which suprised me, to him it was just like another day in the office, but you look after your freinds whilst over there.

The russians where there for the best part of 20 years and as soon as they left it was exactly like it was before within months of them being there. There is no 'winning hearts and minds' for the people of iraq/afghan, expecially the ones who have suffered losses from the civilian side, which there have been many!

And im sure that when the US/British and allied forces leave (if ever) nothing much will have changed within the two countries.

Respect for our armed services 'just doing their job'!

Originally posted by Spinster
reply to post by Reaper2137

 

Your rant is more than justified its what we are all thinking. My cousin served over in afghanistan the year before last and will be returning for a second tour later this year. When i see him he doesnt have war storys, which suprised me, to him it was just like another day in the office, but you look after your freinds whilst over there.

The russians where there for the best part of 20 years and as soon as they left it was exactly like it was before within months of them being there. There is no 'winning hearts and minds' for the people of iraq/afghan, expecially the ones who have suffered losses from the civilian side, which there have been many!

And im sure that when the US/British and allied forces leave (if ever) nothing much will have changed within the two countries.

Respect for our armed services 'just doing their job'!

I thank your cousin for his hard work and the part he left behind but its in good company.
thanks for your kind words. tho love you avatar lol..

reply to post by Spinster


I'm in the British army I have done 3 tours of Iraq and two tours of afghan and I totally disagree with you, hearts and minds do work I have seen it first hand.

We dont need to be all gun HO, if we go stomping through afghan shooting everything we would get slaughtered it's there country they know it inside out especially the mountains the Taliban a reasonably professional and have been at war for years they know how to fight you cannot underestimate them that's were the Russians got it wrong.

Originally posted by simples
reply to post by Spinster

 

I'm in the British army I have done 3 tours of Iraq and two tours of afghan and I totally disagree with you, hearts and minds do work I have seen it first hand.

We dont need to be all gun HO, if we go stomping through afghan shooting everything we would get slaughtered it's there country they know it inside out especially the mountains the Taliban a reasonably professional and have been at war for years they know how to fight you cannot underestimate them that's were the Russians got it wrong.

more talking about iraq than afgan but I see both your points. I've seen hearts and minds work first hand but than again I've seen the same people that were changed blow us up a few weeks later...

The points are well taken, but one thing is missing.

In looking back through history, the precedents for this "war" is not WW I, WW II, Korea, or even Vietnam. Instead, we should be looking at the entire Christian-Muslim conflicts, starting with the First Crusade, then proceeding all the way to the First World War, and all of the "agreements" that were made after that event. The Jews, Kurds, Arabs and other Muslims who were basically shafted as the British, French, and the U.S. (to a lesser extent) split the world up to fit their financial needs.

The true fundamentalist Muslims that see our current battles as simply the continuation of the Crusades, are raising their children to continue this conflict through those children, their children, and their childrens' childrens. Were the 12th Century Muslims willing to sacrifice their lives for what they believed? Yes! In the 15th Center, were those Muslims willing to fight and die for what they believed? Yes! In the 20th Century were the Muslims willing to fight and die for what they believed? Yes! What makes you think the 21st Century Muslims still do not wish to avenge all those believers of the past millineum? Will the Muslims of the 22nd Century still be willing to die for what they believe? Of course they will!

Therefore, the point of this "war" is to change the location of the battles. Instead of New York and Washington, they are Iraq and Afghanistan. As time passes, new locations will crop up and we will send our men and women to fight there. It is as inevitable as reading the same history book a second time, expecting a different story.

This is, unfortunately, what the people of BOTH sides face, for now and the future!

thank you for sharing that with us...

kx

reply to post by simples


I was more responding to what reaper2137 said in his post about the war being unwinable, you being a vet of three tours i cannot argue with what you experienced, you say you disagree with my post, but is it just about the winning the hearts and minds of the people you disagree with or everything?

In response to your post and reaper2137's, you both say that the local population you both encountered seem to be very happy to see the liberation that takes places there, but as reaper say those people quickly turn, as do the those serving in the iraq/afghan police, who i beleive have killed several british/US soldiers when they did turn.

The main crux of my original post was responding to the OP, desregarding everything that is currently going on withing the two countrys, and more focusing on whether the actual conflict is 'winable' or whether things will just stay exactly the same.

Respect for your service.

Sorry spinster should of made it clear I was just disagreeing with the hearts and minds thing in your post

Great post man thanks for everything. I can't imagine what its like there.

I think civil war was the goal in the first place. I believe they want to divide Iraq eventually. Israeli's are already buying up land in northern Iraq and want to make an oil pipeline going to Haifa.

Thanks for all the posts and kind words.

its rather sad to see so many post asking why we are there and why we haven't won.

maybe now people won't ask that so much lol.. at least from the soldiers perspective

We were never meant to win.

The New World Order wreaks of dying empire odor.

if 911 was a military hoax, pushed on the public by a complicit media(see letesrollforum.com, septemberclues.info) in which very few, if any, people died, then the given motivation for going to war(freedom, democracy, liberation,revenge) was a complete pretence. lithium and oil are the booty( along with the futher regional empowering of israel) and the 'worthwhile' collateral damage is the loss of thousands of soldiers and countless innocents. is it any wonder that it is viewed as an unwinnable war, when it wasn't a war in the first place, just an annexation of foreign natural resourses. there will be no withdrawal until all the plundering is done. no disrespect meant to reaper2137 or any of the innocent people who have vainly lost their lives or been tragically affected.

We were told we were going into Iraq for a cpl of reasons. WMD's - despite Hans Blix stating there was 'no smoking gun,' while Blair's 45 minutes to doom speach was exposed as being an out and out lie. (Hans Blix's findings have been verified by subsequent events. i.e. there never was any WMD's)
We were also told we were invading to liberate the Iraqi's from an evil dictator. (Despite going to war for regime change alone being illegal).

The public were told the Iraqi's would be out throwing flowers at the soldiers' feet. The people of Iraq were never declared our enemy....we are there purportedly to help them. One of the posts on this thread declares a desire to nuke the entire area - so much for helping these people. (In any event they'll never do that - if they don't care about people they care about control of that oil supply). Our political leaders don't appear to have read their history books, and if they have, they certainly didn't inform the men and women who make up our armed forces.

The OP is correct in that this was never a war - it is an invasion and occupation motivated purely by profit. There was no altruistic reasoning behind this at all - its simply about the cash that can be reeped. If the citizens of the US and UK weren't aware of this - the people of Iraq were.

Our political and corporate leaders never cared about the people of Iraq, they knew Sadam was no threat (his neghbours would have been yelling loudly if he was), and lastly they don't give a damn about the young men and women they've sent out there to do their fighting for them.

The so-called 'civil war' between different factions was deliberately fomented by our leaders. Remember the British soldiers dressed as Arabs, with the bomb making equipment in their car, shooting at Iraqi police? That was in 2005.

The policy of pre-emptive warfare is illegal and bizarre - it makes us the aggressor and the 'bad guys.'