Masons!

Three of maybe many reasons why you keep secrecy could be because :

1) You use rituals that are powerful, and would probably annoy a lot of people if they found out. You're beyond duality to an extent, and many religious people just wouldn't understand this, it'd cause mayhem if they knew of your rituals. Not because they're evil, but because religious types would see it as magic, when what it actually is is just applying advanced methods to achieve your goals.

2) You know about our reality, and that's it's not as real as so many would like to think. Part of your task is keeping stability and not letting utter chaos break out. Those that realise and try messing with reality are monitored, those that mess with it continually are dealt with. Warnings at first, then if they don't listen, further steps are taken.

3) You know that we're not alone in the universe, and one of your tasks is to guide us to the point where we can accept that. Part of your task has maybe been given to you by 'others' and you have to keep quiet because if you don't, again, chaos will break out because we're not ready. If someone finds out about this and tries to leak this info, they can be silenced, because they don't know the consequences at all of what they'd be doing.


Just putting this out there because I'm interested in the response, and because I think whatever you're moving towards is pretty close now anyway, so some people sussing things isn't as much of a big deal. And even if someone posts the total truth up it can just be denied, of course. There's probably people all over the net that have nailed it already, not that they'll have it confirmed, obviously. I know I'll never get a yay or nay, but it's interesting either way.

Maybe one or more of you Masons that know things can message me and say I'm on the right track if I am? Again, I realise you can't flat out say yes or no. If you did I'm not bothered about researching deeper really, just happy having an idea.

Just my thoughts. But I think only a handful at the top know the real truth behind masonry. All others below that are at different levels of understanding.

That is flattering that you give our organization so much power. You never even listed an option that we might just be a charitable mens fraternity whose only mission is to make good men better. By your choices, we should have capes or cool underground lairs.

Let me ask you this, where have you heard all the information that you have thus far? Was if from masons? Perhaps some Christian web sites? Where you get your info has a lot to do with what you learn.

reply to post by Essence


Honestly, it really is none of the above.

As networkdude said it is really much more mundane answer, but in some ways much more profound.

Originally posted by network dude
That is flattering that you give our organization so much power. You never even listed an option that we might just be a charitable mens fraternity whose only mission is to make good men better. By your choices, we should have capes or cool underground lairs.

I think that's also what you do as part of your tasks, but at higher levels maybe other tasks become known, like one or more of the ones I listed.

Originally posted by network dude
Let me ask you this, where have you heard all the information that you have thus far? Was if from masons? Perhaps some Christian web sites? Where you get your info has a lot to do with what you learn.

Read a decent bit of occult stuff a while back as I was learning about Magick, and various other things. To be honest, if my first post was totally spot on I'm not hugely bothered, I just accept the world isn't what we think it is now. It's no huge deal to me. And further than this thread I'm really not bothered about pursuing things.

I guess I just like to think our world isn't as dull as it seems. Hopefully because it isn't.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
reply to post by Essence

 

Honestly, it really is none of the above.

As networkdude said it is really much more mundane answer, but in some ways much more profound.

Not that I'm going to believe you fully, but cheers for the reply. I get that you might be right and am open minded about it.

I hope my lodge shows me their underground secret world domination lair when I go through the EA degree on Feb 3. Or do I have to wait until I am a MM?

Originally posted by fordrew
I hope my lodge shows me their underground secret world domination lair when I get my EA degree on Feb 3. Or do I have to wait until I am a MM?

I'm fine with you thinking I'm a nut, it's cool.

I think the knowledge of Masons was powerful a couple of thousand years ago. #1 it had protected trade secrets, #2 it had cutting edge knowledge of geometry, mathematics, and astronomy, #3 it has a democratic hierarchy that has turned out to be the basis of modern democracy.

So, there were good reasons for keeping themselves secret and safe from public scrutiny.

Now, we do it for fun, nostalgia, and tradition.

We keep secrets, just because we always kept secrets. Our knowledge should be common knowledge for anyone so inclined to learn a little. No superpower.

I know, I was disappointed too. I made it to 3rd Degree, and then the chairs, and then Worshipful Master, but alas, I still have to go to work everyday, and my wife still makes me take the trash out.

Originally posted by Essence
I think that's also what you do as part of your tasks, but at higher levels maybe other tasks become known, like one or more of the ones I listed.

By 'higher levels', what do you mean?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
By 'higher levels', what do you mean?

I don't know! I honestly aren't bothered about researching into a group nowadays if I'm not going to get the answers, so I don't know levels, etc. I'd guess that there's level 33 though, and things will still be quiet, but you'll have other levels from that point onwards. Or maybe level 33's are picked for another group entirely. I just think there's bigger conspiracies about and if you guys aren't involved, well, I'd be slightly disappointed.

And even if I was right, this would be the standard set of responses I guess, so I'm still totally unsure. That no longer nags at me though like it used to, so no biggie.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I think the knowledge of Masons was powerful a couple of thousand years ago. #1 it had protected trade secrets, #2 it had cutting edge knowledge of geometry, mathematics, and astronomy, #3 it has a democratic hierarchy that has turned out to be the basis of modern democracy.

edit on 22-1-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

I'd really like to think you still did things like this if you used to. Then again though as things have progressed with maths, science, etc, on the outside world, that will have naturally passed I suppose.

And maybe after getting to this point, I've just got the wrong group. Maybe it's the Illuminati that are more like what I described, if they even exist.

Originally posted by Essence
I don't know! I honestly aren't bothered about researching into a group nowadays if I'm not going to get the answers, so I don't know levels, etc. I'd guess that there's level 33 though, and things will still be quiet, but you'll have other levels from that point onwards. Or maybe level 33's are picked for another group entirely. I just think there's bigger conspiracies about and if you guys aren't involved, well, I'd be slightly disappointed.

I think a small amount of research could be quite revealing. You will find that the 'higher levels', by your definition, exist in an appedant body known as the Scottish Rite. This is the group typically cited due to its use of degrees 4-33. A percentage of Masons belong to this group but by no means do all Masons belong.

Do you feel it makes sense that a group which has no jurisdictional control or influence over the other, larger party would somehow be a viable entity to cite for manipulation of the instituion as a whole?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Do you feel it makes sense that a group which has no jurisdictional control or influence over the other, larger party would somehow be a viable entity to cite for manipulation of the instituion as a whole?

Like I said, I have no idea really. I don't want to be winding you guys up either, you must get enough of it around here so will just leave it. Thanks for the replies though.

reply to post by Essence


No need to leave, we are used to getting wound up, and we would rather educate folks that are truly interested, rather than run them off. I thought your first post was pretty neutral. You had some ideas, and you are getting some answers. Keep it up.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Essence

 

No need to leave, we are used to getting wound up, and we would rather educate folks that are truly interested, rather than run them off. I thought your first post was pretty neutral. You had some ideas, and you are getting some answers. Keep it up.

Awesome, cheers. If I have any other ideas or questions, will post back.

reply to post by Essence


when you were learning about magic, did you learn about Hermes and the Kybalion?

If you have an interest in these topics, then yes, you are asking about the right group, but if you are looking for the world domination guys, they are down the hall.

Since you sound sincere in your questions, you deserve a sincere response. Masonry is none of the things you mentioned in your OP. It can be very meaningful or it can be a nice break from daily mundane tasks. It is different to most members since it gives back only what has been put in. The Illuminati as originally organized was disbanded over 200 years ago. It is a fascinating group to study and I feel very strongly that most members of this site would have been eager to get applications for membership if they truly knew what it was about. The perversion of that name that exists today is only in the mind of the conspiracy theorist. They attach the name Illuminati to any group that seem to have power or money. When in fact that was not at all what the real Illuminati was looking for. If you have questions, feel free to ask any of us. We are more than happy to share any and all knowledge we have gained. We just won't waste it on those who have no desire to hear it. But it is not "exciting" like I think you might have originally thought. Life changing, yes, exciting, no.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Essence

 

when you were learning about magic, did you learn about Hermes and the Kybalion?

If you have an interest in these topics, then yes, you are asking about the right group, but if you are looking for the world domination guys, they are down the hall.

Since you sound sincere in your questions, you deserve a sincere response. Masonry is none of the things you mentioned in your OP. It can be very meaningful or it can be a nice break from daily mundane tasks. It is different to most members since it gives back only what has been put in. The Illuminati as originally organized was disbanded over 200 years ago. It is a fascinating group to study and I feel very strongly that most members of this site would have been eager to get applications for membership if they truly knew what it was about. The perversion of that name that exists today is only in the mind of the conspiracy theorist. They attach the name Illuminati to any group that seem to have power or money. When in fact that was not at all what the real Illuminati was looking for. If you have questions, feel free to ask any of us. We are more than happy to share any and all knowledge we have gained. We just won't waste it on those who have no desire to hear it. But it is not "exciting" like I think you might have originally thought. Life changing, yes, exciting, no.

Had read about Hermes and possibly some of his writings, but don't think I'd read the Kybalion, so cheers for mentioning it. And thanks again for offering to answer any other questions. Am mainly researching the paranormal at the moment, but if I get back into this area at any point, will remember to ask if I get stuck.

reply to post by Essence

You're mixing "secrecy" with "privacy".

1) There's nothing magic or paranormal about the ritual.

2) & 3) We're not a society of puppet masters to control the world.

Our rituals impart lessons of morality on the candidate and induct him into our venerable Craft. There is no insane secret that would blow the mind of a non-member. We're about charity, doing good for our community by bettering one's self.

There is nothing magic(k)al about masonry.

The secrets the world thinks we keep are different than the REAL secrets.

The REAL secrets can be discovered by any man or woman, masonry is not required!

A mason won't tell you the 'little' secrets like the passwords and handshakes because he promised his brothers he wouldn't and it's a test of his integrity. A password or handshake won't get you anything. It's simply a test of yourself being able to keep your word.

There is nothing secret or magical or supernatural in our rituals. If you aren't a mason you might even think they are silly.

When people say they CAN'T give you the TRUE secret of a Freemason, they mean it literally.

Maybe it would make sense to a musician. If you went to piano lessons and learned all the notes and chords it wouldn't make you a brilliant composer.

Likewise if you went to an amazing concert and heard the music live from a brilliant orchestra; music so powerful it moved you to tears or laughter or unimaginable joy.... how could you 'give' that music to another musician.

No amount of musical notation on paper, or learning the piece or finding a conductor or orchestra to play it will EVER equal the personal experience you felt the first time you heard it.

You can give someone notes on paper, but you are UNABLE to give them the secret of the experience.



That's the way masonry is. First you learn the notes. Then you learn the chords. Then you learn piece by piece how they fit together and one day you have this magnificent symphony that only you can hear.

THAT is the secret of Freemasons. THAT is what I can't give you.

If you tortured me enough would I give you the handshake and password? Probably, I don't have a high pain tolerance. But would any amount of torture, threat, pain or blackmail ever get the REAL secret? NO!

No mason can give you the secret. You have to find it yourself.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate, and disagree with many of my brothers. To be honest, I think Essence is on to something.

Going back to his original post, he listed 3 points:

1) You use rituals that are powerful, and would probably annoy a lot of people if they found out. You're beyond duality to an extent, and many religious people just wouldn't understand this, it'd cause mayhem if they knew of your rituals. Not because they're evil, but because religious types would see it as magic, when what it actually is is just applying advanced methods to achieve your goals.

This actually has a lot of truth to it. Now obviously, especially in the Blue Lodge, the rituals are often displayed in a less than solemn manner, and too many times I've seen the Legend of the Third Degree, which is a dramatic tragedy, treated as if it's supposed to be a comedy. Nevertheless, Masonic ritual is beyond any shadow of a doubt based upon the Ancient Mysteries, and the symbolism and included rites are rich with meaning.

2) You know about our reality, and that's it's not as real as so many would like to think. Part of your task is keeping stability and not letting utter chaos break out. Those that realise and try messing with reality are monitored, those that mess with it continually are dealt with. Warnings at first, then if they don't listen, further steps are taken.

The Hermetic philosophy, upon which so much in Freemasonry is based, recognizes that "reality" as perceived by the average guy in the street (what philosophy calls "naive realism") is nowhere near as "real" as most folks think it is. However, most Masons are as blissfully unaware of this as most non-Masons, and certainly we do not moniotr anybody who seeks enligtenment, or otherwise.

3) You know that we're not alone in the universe, and one of your tasks is to guide us to the point where we can accept that. Part of your task has maybe been given to you by 'others' and you have to keep quiet because if you don't, again, chaos will break out because we're not ready. If someone finds out about this and tries to leak this info, they can be silenced, because they don't know the consequences at all of what they'd be doing.

We have absolutely no idea whether or not we are alone in the universe. On one hand, it would seem unlikely that we are alone. On the other hand though, even if the universe is teeming with life, we are likely all so far apart as to never be able to know for sure.

Originally posted by emsed1
There is nothing magic(k)al about masonry.

THE Occult Science of the Ancient Magi was concealed under the shadows of the Ancient Mysteries: it was imperfectly revealed or rather disfigured by the Gnostics: it is guessed at under the obscurities that cover the pretended crimes of the Templars; and it is found enveloped in enigmas that seem impenetrable, in the Rites of the Highest Masonry. Pike, Morals and Dogma, p. 839

Magic is the science of the Ancient Magi: and the Christian religion, which has imposed silence on the lying oracles, and put an end to the prestiges of the false Gods, itself reveres those Magi who came from the East, guided by a Star, to adore the Saviour of the world in His cradle.

Tradition also gives these Magi the title of "Kings;" because initiation into Magism constitutes a genuine royalty; and because the grand art of the Magi is styled by all the Adepts, "The Royal Art," or the Holy Realm or Empire, Sanctum Regnum.

The Star which guided them is that same Blazing Star, the image whereof we find in all initiations. To the Alchemists it is the sign of the Quintessence; to the Magists, the Grand Arcanum; to the Kabalists, the Sacred Pentagram. The study of this Pentagram could not but lead the Magi to the knowledge of the New Name which was about to raise itself above all names, and cause all creatures capable of adoration to bend the knee.

Magic unites in one and the same science, whatsoever Philosophy can possess that is most certain, and Religion of the Infallible and the Eternal. It perfectly and incontestably reconciles these two terms that at first blush seem so opposed to each other; faith and reason, science and creed, authority and liberty. ibid., p. 841-842