New College Fraternity thread

Originally posted by nikkerbokker
Just a thought that crosses my mind occassionally...

Every now and then I will hear someone refer to their "brother fraternity" or "sister sorority". I have heard that every Panhel sorority is assigned a national brother IFC fraternity or vice versa, something to that effect. I have also heard that brother fraternities/sister sororities are obsolete, or that they never existed in the first place. Does anyone know what's up with the brother fraternity/sister sorority system? I heard once that my org's bro fraternity is Theta Chi, but we never did anything to recognize it (ie we didn't do things especially with Theta Chi or anything). Slick this might be something you know a thing or two about, working for a national HQ. Did such pairings ever exist, and if so, how were they determined and when did it end? Any thoughts/comments are appreciated

And for the record this isn't referring to a Big Bros/Lil Sisters program, which I know is frowned upon nationally because it usually involves hazing.

My fraternity's (Kappa Sigma) sister sorority is Chi Omega, as Dr. Charles Richardson (our then National Vice President) helped 4 girls at U. of Arkansas incorporate.

But as far as things go on a local level, we don't really recognize it either.

Also, keep in mind that there are 66 IFC Fraternities (I believe that's correct, as ours and a few others broke away and founded a new consortium) and only 26 Panhel sororities.

Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by Googler

Originally posted by dtdfever1
Does anyone know about the Sigma Phi Society. I heard they were one of the first fraternities to use greek letters (somewhere after Phi Beta Kappa), but I haven't been able to find any info on why they didn't survive, if they merged, and all the timeline type information. If someone could help me out I would appreciate it.

Also does anyone have the Phi Beta Kappa initiation that I could have? I know they aren't a fraternity anymore and since their ceremony is open, I'm sure there won't be any problems on sending it. Let me know if you have it or where I could find it if it's on the web somewhere. Thanks.

Yes, Sigma Phi was founded at Union, and still exists. They have a chapter at my school.

Thanks googler. Do you know if they have a website? I'll go to the Union college website and see about other info.

www.sigmaphi.org...

Googler, I was searching the Union College website searching for Sigma Phi and I found something called the Minerva houses. Can you tell me about those?

I know Minerva is a greek god that is worshipped by members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, but I don't think this has anything to do with that. What can you tell me.

Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by SimonGray

Other threads may exist because there are over 660,000 board posts! I can't keep an eye on every one of them, sheesh...


If a representative of a body has the right to request information being removed, then I will deal with the matter as I see fit.

If you have problems with mutual respect among ATS and other parties, then go to another website which is happy to violate international legal systems.

[edit on 14-7-2004 by SimonGray]

Where the hell did this come from? I thought he had his own thread going at the top of the board. Why come and ruin our conversation?

and why put it in the middle of a conversation where nothing "too secretive" has been violated....?

Be careful chysolaras, I just got in trouble for excessive quoting!!!!! I guess we're not supposed to know what everyone is talking about when we make a statement. Oh well.

Originally posted by dtdfever1
Googler, I was searching the Union College website searching for Sigma Phi and I found something called the Minerva houses. Can you tell me about those?

I know Minerva is a greek god that is worshipped by members of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, but I don't think this has anything to do with that. What can you tell me.

dtdfever, I'm sorry you got in trouble. It happens sometimes. They are all a little too testy.

As far as Minerva is concerned. I don't think Sigma Alpha Epsilon "worships" Minerva. They may respect what the greek goddess stands for more than anything. As far as the Union college thing, I'm not sure. I haven't checked it out, but since Minerva is the patron god of wisdom, maybe these houses have something to do with the idea of acquiring wisdom and these places are like temples for doing so. Just a thought.

Originally posted by Googler

Also, keep in mind that there are 66 IFC Fraternities (I believe that's correct, as ours and a few others broke away and founded a new consortium) and only 26 Panhel sororities.

Googler, can you tell me how that has gone since breaking away from the NIC? I think you guys and Phi Delts have a pretty good point. I'm not sure what all of the programs are for that they develop. If anything it only helps out local fraternities who can go to the website and pick up ideas and documents for them to steal and make them seem more legitimate.

Maybe in time the NIC will wake up and the membership will change the direction back to the original intent and you guys could get back with us.

How does everyone feel about local fraternities? I can say I'm not really a big fan. Mostly it has to do with the bad press they give off and make legitimate national fraternities look bad. But I also believe that without a large association, a local is more like a club than a fraternity. I know its semantics, but I wish colleges would make a concerted effort to make all local fraternities to go national and maybe we wouldn't have as much bad press and negativity going around (MTV Fraternity Life for instance).

Just my two cents.

We don't have any local fraternities here, except maybe a multi-cultural one but I'm not sure. They are all IFC/Panhel/USFC. But from what I have read on this board, heard/read in the news and from people at other schools, I can say I agree with Slick. I personally wouldn't be attracted to joining a house that isn't part of a larger national organization. A big reason why fraternities appeal to people is because of a strong national alumni base which provides for career and other opportunities. I am certain no local org can match the alumni base of any major IFC or Panhel house. If they are strong enough to survive locally, wouldn't it be the natural next step to expand, as many of our founders did? But if you're looking for a smaller house or whatever, then a local fraternity might be for you I guess. But I personally wouldn't consider joining one.

And like Slick mentioned, MTV didn't exactly help by using a local house in their show. At the very least they could have mentioned that this is a local chapter, the only existing chapter of XYZ fraternity and that it isn't associated with the NIC. Instead for the sake of reality TV, and since I know Panhel would never let a chapter participate in such a show and I doubt NIC would either, I guess MTV had to take what they could get and play it off like it was the "real deal" (not that local fraternities aren't the real deal also but you get what I'm saying). Its just sad to think of how many impressionable young minds watched that show and are entering college now thinking that's how it's going to be.

I remember signing a petition a couple of years ago that Panhellenic was passing around to try to have that show banned, and I haven't seen/heard about it so I guess (hope) its gone for good. So many friends who watched that show asked me "Is that what its really like?" so when I finally watched an episode I about died. Within the first 15 minutes I had seen so many rush violations and "pledge events" that would be considered hazing under Panhel rule. OK I am finished ranting, thanks for letting me get it all off my chest


[edit on 15-7-2004 by nikkerbokker]

There are small chapters of national fraternities who are probably better than local chapters. The problem with locals is that there isn't any national presence to watch over them and make them accountable. Not only that locals don't have rules to follow to keep themselves safe. They can go and buy kegs and have keg parties if they want. Although the state may have anti-hazing laws, the locals don't have an influence to end hazing. Locals are small enough not to have the legal help they may need if something goes wrong (ie: death, rape. etc) while the national has insurance policies and such.

It would be everyone's best interest (local fraternities, national fraternities, and the colleges) to have locals go national.

Amen Slick. All the points you raised and more as excellent. Who is going to crack down on local chapters if they get in trouble for drinking or whatever? Who will ensure that hazing and huge raging parties don't happen? Who is going to make sure they keep a minimum GPA, maintain a nice chapter house and overall ensure a successful organization? How devastating would it be to join a local org, only to come back some 30 years later and its gone. No matter where I end up in life, I always know I can contact Sigma Kappa and instantly be reconnected with many close friends and contacts, and I'm certain most people feel the same way about their own GLOs. I just can't imagine members of local orgs being able to claim the same thing.

Well, I am finally glad that we could surpass the removed fraternity thread in the number of posts. But it does seem a lot of the people who contributed to the thread just aren't here anymore. It's a shame. There is only like 6 people but before it was more like 20. Hopefully it will build steam up once again. I guess it does take same time to rebuilt after being torn down.

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
Well, I am finally glad that we could surpass the removed fraternity thread in the number of posts. But it does seem a lot of the people who contributed to the thread just aren't here anymore. It's a shame. There is only like 6 people but before it was more like 20. Hopefully it will build steam up once again. I guess it does take same time to rebuilt after being torn down.

So is your goal to simply to increase your points/posts count?

This is a privatly owned website and has been stated as such many times to you. Your "torn down" thread comment holds no merit when the content was asked to be removed. End of story.

I think Simon said it quite clearly...

If you have problems with mutual respect among ATS and other parties, then go to another website which is happy to violate international legal systems.

Originally posted by dtdfever1
I guess we're not supposed to know what everyone is talking about when we make a statement.

For the quoting, see this:
ABOUT ATS: Warnings for excessive quoting, and how to quote

You are certainly allowed to quote relevant bits, as I did to your post above. Just not all the text.

Slick I doubt seriously that Kappa Sigma will ever rejoin the NIC, as we were the ones who came up with the Fraternal Leadership Assoc.(FLA). Our current WGM (National President) Kevin Kaplan has made it quite clear that our goals and ideals just arent in line with what the NIC is presenting right now. From what I can gather it has turned into a hollow organization that has been collecting dues for years and has no advancements, improvements or contributions to modern greek life to show for it. To the best of my knowledge it is basically set up to siphon money from the larger more advanced fraternities just to prop up the floundering small fraternities and local societies that choose to join. Not to mention they have rejected every request for a national campaign to promote fraternities in a positive manner. I truly believe that the FLA will take those steps to ensure that there is a positive message being presented on a national level and that it will work towards the advancement of its member organizations not just sit and stagnate like the NIC. I would highly encourage you to enquire more about what is going on with the FLA and present those findings to your superior officers or trustees in your organization. I dont really see the NIC staying around for much longer when all the big dogs start to leave the yard and take their funding with them. Just my $3.50 on the subject.

Zed I dont think that Slick is after any posting record on here. What I think he was trying to say is that there was alot of interest generated around the topic and it is sad that the information that wasnt "trade secret" was destroyed along with everything else. But bottom line I have to agree with Simon on the fact that it is his site, and he personally bares any responsibility or liability for anything presented on here. If he chooses to take the low road and comply with a request from an organization to remove trade secret material then he has every right to do so . If it were me covering my own keister I probably would have done the same thing. It isnt worth hassle of a court summons.

On that same note I am going to have representatives from a local jewler call and request that all clues and info pertaining to the ring hunt be revealed and forwarded to my email address due to the fact that it is causing me emotional distress. Anyone think I have a chance on this?

It seems that ATS is not afraid of the Illuminati, Bilderbergs, CIA, the Military-Industrial Complex or the New World Order but Phi Psi has them shaking....but seriously. The last list seems to have gotten a lot of attention because people thought they might learn some "secrets"...hey how many funny ways are there to give a handshake anyway. The real secret of fraternities and sororities is that their intent is to promote traditional American values such as mutual respect and commitment to your friends, good scholarship and good citizenship...hay these days that is seditious stuff.

I am a counselor to a number of undergraduates in may fraternity. Last week I was having lunch with the chapter president from a small mid-western liberal arts college, and I do mean liberal. He made a interesting comment; he said "on my campus we have a group for everything, bi-this, transgender-that and even the athletic teams are becoming politically correct, the fraternity is the only place that's truly "men only" where guys can be guys." I agree with that so long as they conduct themselves as gentlemen and not barbarians, but it is a good point.

If the national organizations do a good job they will offer men a chance to learn leadership skills and teach them how to conduct themselves in a mature way in whatever their chosen field or social setting will be. My worry is that some organizations are becoming too PC and I think that the NIC is on of the key culprits in facilitating this.

Anyway just some random thoughts...anyone wanna talk about Rituals.....

I think I agree with everything that has been posted so far. When I said I was glad that this thread had finally surpassed the "Removal of College Fraternity Secrets" thread was being we finally are back on track on the topic at hand. A lot of people were upset and kept replying to something that wouldn't be rectified by the Establishment. I simply wanted to let everyone know we have our forum back where we can discuss all things greek.

Was it actually Phi Kappa Psi who complained? I don't recall anyone talking about their ritual or anyone trading it? I don't think anyone has it. I may be wrong. If you do let me know I would like to see it and study and research it.

About the NIC/FLA...I think at some point the NIC will realize what needs to be done. I can't go into my affiliation but the reason why my organization isn't dropping is the possibility of an alumnus becoming the next president. Hopefully if he gets elected there will be a change of policy. We'll see. If I rise up a little higher in the national council I may start pushing to drop. It is a waste of money.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by dtdfever1
I guess we're not supposed to know what everyone is talking about when we make a statement.

You are certainly allowed to quote relevant bits, as I did to your post above. Just not all the text.

The RELEVANT portions were quoted. But whatever, I'm here to talk about fraternities, rituals, and secrets.

Does the FLA have a national website? I looked but couldn't find one. Do they have officers and stuff? What are the current dues? I don't know if my fraternity is thinking about leaving or not. I haven't heard anything. The convention is coming up so maybe they will say something then.

Slick are you sure SAE doesn't worship Minerva? I watched one time when they were moving and I saw a statue of a greek goddess. I looked it up on the internet and it looked like Minerva. Why have a statue, an idol if you please, if you don't worship it?

I'm still looking for Phi Beta Kappa information. Does anybody know anyone that has it? I'm curious about how the first greek ritual was composed. We don't have a chapter at my school so I will never be able to go through it. Let me know.