New College Fraternity thread

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
It's been awhile since Nikki's been on here, but maybe she can answer how sororities usually handle the grades issue when they are dealing with initiation. I know every sorority has a short pledge period and initiates before the end of the first semester so I was just curious. Is grades a huge problem and what process do sororities usually take.


NIKKI WHERE ARE YOU!!!!

sorry guys been MIA lately. Trying to get my brain together before grad school madness begins

Well since we only have a 6 week pledging period of course its impossible to determine who has what grades. Even if you have a 4.0 6 weeks into the semester you can still bomb your classes and fail. We have the general GPA guidelines: minimum GPAs to rush, hold chapter offices, etc. When a girl joins a sorority or signs up for rush, she signs a paper giving Panhellenic/her sorority access to her grades. When girls rush, every sorority has a copy of every girl's application beforehand, including high school and/or college GPAs. If we really like a girl (she's pretty, lots of community service, nice, etc) but she has not so good grades, we will vote on it. This one girl went through one time she had been on the swim team, was beautiful as could be, sweet, etc, she could have been in any house she wanted, except she had a blaring 1.9 and ACADEMIC PROBATION splattered across her application. Surprisingly she got bid into one of the top houses, but they were the ONLY house to even invite her back after the 3rd day. Goes to show some houses value beauty over brains.

Overall grades aren't too bad a problem. I am proud to say my house went from having the lowest GPA to the highest throughout my active years. We get the new members' grades when they come out, and anyone under a 2.0 has to do X many study hours and no social events, under a 2.5 has to do Y many study hours and can attend 1 social event. Of course they also cannot hold offices. We also have members with low GPAs do grade checks once or twice throughout the semester, the sorority has a form for the professor to fill out & give a grade or explain how they think the girl is doing. And if you don't turn in your grade checks obviously you get punished somehow (loss of social activity, fine, etc). Technically you aren't supposed to be able to take a Lil Sis if your GPA is too low also, but we don't usually enforce that. Ultimately if a member really gets a bad GPA she ends up moving home and dropping out anyway. But there have been a couple instances where we voted to expel girls not just because of, but partly due to their grades (also other reasons). But again its rare. My house is still up there GPA wise and I couldn't be more proud Of course we also do cheesy sorority girl stuff like give out awards and treats to girls with good grades, most improved GPA, etc.

That help you out a bit Slick?

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
Going back to the plan and discussion, there are some schools that are so persistent with privacy rights that they do not disclose grades to fraternities even though the members would give permission. In those instances, those chapters usually do something similar to my plan in order to get the grades needed to initiate.

Wait, so not all schools/orgs have their members sign something giving IFC/Panhellenic/their org access to their grades? I know at least all the sororities do that, girls have to put their high school and college GPAs on their rush applications too. Not sure about the fraternities though, but I am pretty sure at least at my school they have to sign something also. Is it more the school or the org that doesn't want access to the member's grades?
I think that is absolutely ridiculous. I love our rights to privacy and all but when you pledge your membership to an organization you are promising to meet certain requirements. Therefore, said organization should be able to confirm you are meeting those requirements AT ANY TIME. When you get a job, they ask if you take drugs. Regardless of whether you say yes or no, or pass the first test, they should still be and are able to test you ANY TIME. So how is this different? I know so many people who failed out of school, yet were too ashamed to tell their parents so they lived out a lie, told their parents they were still in school instead of moving home and ultimately wasted time and money. Had they been in an organization like mine, someone would have noticed when the grades started slipping, someone could have said "Hey get your act together or you're gonna get kicked out."
To sum it up I think that's ridiculous. If school/orgs can't get access to members' GPAs, then what's the point of using a GPA requirement for membership???

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
Billybob, what do you think of my proposal concerning initiating new members before getting the final semester grades from the university?

Going back to the plan and discussion, there are some schools that are so persistent with privacy rights that they do not disclose grades to fraternities even though the members would give permission. In those instances, those chapters usually do something similar to my plan in order to get the grades needed to initiate. In order to continue active status, members must bring their final grade report to the academic director of the chapter to make sure they are over the gpa requirement to remain active.

So, the chapters (and the active brothers) need to get up and work on getting the info from their pledges in order to see whether they can initiate early in their first semester.

Thats what I was getting I guess. Except we dont walk around with the pledges. We have never had a problem with them lying about grades so we trust them to get them by themselves. We have had some pledges whos grades were not where they were suppose to be and when the next semester started they were placed on academic probation. It works for us.

In my sorority fall pledges aren't initiated until the spring semester. Basically, they are pledges from Sept.-Feb. when classes start up again and grades are released. It makes for a long process and it can cause some hard feelings between the fall and spring pledge classes. Spring pledges are initiated the same semester--we get their fall semester grades during spring rush and don't give them a bid if they don't already have a 2.0.

Also, if you don't make grades (2.0) you won't be initiated. Instead you are held over and given one more semester to meet the grade requirements. If you succeed, then you will be initiated in the fall.

Originally posted by nikkerbokker

Originally posted by qwerty99
She left out all the skits and songs they have to learn. The girls here have to have a rush workshop a week befor.

The most us guys did before rush was 10 minutes before find out who is coming to the house.

You have no idea...our rush workshops start the previous semester and we have them for 8 hours a day 4 days a week before rush, its nuts. We sing songs, learn conversation "stuff", plan for house tours, philanthropy day...not to mention the fun process that is recruitment!!! I don't think most people realize how much time and effort it can take. And it can be really heartbreaking sometimes to put forth so much effort, meet a girl you really like and have her drop your house, a lot of younger girls get very upset during their first recruitment because they meet their "future lil sis" only to find out she dropped the next day. LOL girls from the house still call me "Nikki what're the words to this song again?" and of course despite my bi*ching and moaning you know I'm still there helping as an alumna

OK now let loose with your flames

I feel them coming...

I would just like to say that not ALL sororities are like that. As a matter of fact, I'd estmiate that MOST are not. The ones that are like that are usually at really big schools with a huge Greek scene-like Old Miss, Arkansas, University of Texas, Illinois, Florida, FSU, etc. Most of your other schools with smaller or more casual greek scenes are MUCH less fanatic about this stuff. My school had 7 sororities and 10 fraternities and we were NEVER like this. Yes, we might say-"wear a pink top and black pants or skirt" but we'd never have to do a dress rehearsal or get a tan or highlights or whatever. The shade of pink could vary and we would not have a cow! We were encouraged to look nice, but never told do look exactly the same. I would say that the example above is a stereotype and while it obviously does happen, it is the exception not the rule.

[edit on 14-8-2004 by sunshinekappa]

Originally posted by nikkerbokker
Just a thought that crosses my mind occassionally...

Every now and then I will hear someone refer to their "brother fraternity" or "sister sorority". I have heard that every Panhel sorority is assigned a national brother IFC fraternity or vice versa, something to that effect. I have also heard that brother fraternities/sister sororities are obsolete, or that they never existed in the first place. Does anyone know what's up with the brother fraternity/sister sorority system? I heard once that my org's bro fraternity is Theta Chi, but we never did anything to recognize it (ie we didn't do things especially with Theta Chi or anything). Slick this might be something you know a thing or two about, working for a national HQ. Did such pairings ever exist, and if so, how were they determined and when did it end? Any thoughts/comments are appreciated

And for the record this isn't referring to a Big Bros/Lil Sisters program, which I know is frowned upon nationally because it usually involves hazing.

NONE of the National Panhellenic sosorities have recognised, offical brother fraternities. This would 1) endanger their single sex status and 2) cause possible loyalty confilicts within the groups themselves. NPC sororities are discourged and often forbade at a local level to be affiliated with unofficial "little brother/little sister" organizations as well. This often causes drama and conflist and there is enough of that already! There is ONE constitutionally bound brother -sister organization in the NPHC (historically black greek GLO) and it is Zeta Phi Beta and Phi Beta Sigma. They hafve the same colors and everything. I have no idea about their rituals or proceedures or anything like that but that is the only one I know of. Kappa Delta Phi Fraternity and Kappa Delta Phi National Affliated Sorority (KDPhiNAS as they refer to themselves) are the same organization but a section for boys and a section for girls. i am assuming they have different rituals and hold separate meetings etc. but do not know for certain. They are not affiliated with the NPC. There may be latina or latino organizations that were founded together and are considered brother/sister organizations but as far as the 26 most common sororities on campuses today (the ones in the NPC-National Panhellenic Conference)-they DO NOT have brother organizations.

Know you may here a girls say "they are our brother organization" or something like that but it is an unofficial, local affiliation that is is not sanctioned by either national headquarters.

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
How does everyone feel about local fraternities? I can say I'm not really a big fan. Mostly it has to do with the bad press they give off and make legitimate national fraternities look bad. But I also believe that without a large association, a local is more like a club than a fraternity. I know its semantics, but I wish colleges would make a concerted effort to make all local fraternities to go national and maybe we wouldn't have as much bad press and negativity going around (MTV Fraternity Life for instance).

Just my two cents.

I do not have a problem with local fraternities because most if not all fraternities were at some point-local. However, i do have a problem with ANY fraternity acting in the manner that the fraternities on MTV are portrayed. However, for each "bad" local you show me, i can show you a "bad" chapter of a national. 6 of one, half of a dozen of the other?

Originally posted by alias101
Does anyone know anything about the Beta Theta Pi fraternity?

I have their ritual. Other than that, don't know too much.

Originally posted by conflation

Originally posted by nikkerbokker
One sorority even had their members sign a contract promising to have fake nails & blonde highlights done for rush, as well as tan at least twice per week before rush.

Wow, that's amazing. I've heard of sororities forcing their members to wear makeup and nail polish and dress a certain way for Rush, but that's really over the top. Tanning is sort of a skin cancer risk, too. Wonder if there could be liability issues.

Once again, I would like to say this is the exception NOT the rule!There is also a difference between saying "anyone who wants to touch up her highlights before rush can get it done at yada yada for a discount" and "You MUST get highlights before rush at yada yada"....
Panhellenic also has a rule that no sorority can force its members to wear exactly matching outfits. They may wear similar, but not exactly matching. Any sorority doing this may be brought up on infractions and have to pay fines. Even at Old Miss, they might say-wear a button up white collared shirt, tucked in with a brown belt that has a silver buckle, brown closed toes leather loafers, khaki pants that are not jeans and are not capris and silver lavelier necklace." BUT they CANNOT say "wear this particular GAP white collard button up with these particular Banana Republic pants and these 9west shoes and belt and these Tiffanys earrings." They CAN NOT do that. Telling a girl with Shakira like roots "hey-you thinking about doing something about that before next week?" is different than "You will go get your hair done".

Originally posted by dtdfever1

Originally posted by nikkerbokker
In my sorority (and every other sorority on my campus) the pledge program takes 6 weeks. Its definitely much longer for the fraternities though.

Why is it 6 weeks? I have found there is no good reason why fraternities have their's take as long as they do. Do you think sororities could go even shorter in the coming years?

If you go to the Kappa Delta website, you can view their new member manual (pledge manual) it has a week by week synopsis of what is taught and learned that week during pledging. Since pledges only meet once a week, 6 weeks is not that long really. But maybe looking at their itinerary would be helpful for you to understand.

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
Does anyone know of a fraternity or sorority ritual that is not inspired by masonic teachings? You could argue that those sorority rituals written by fraternity men aren't necessarily masonic unless the writer had that kind of background.

Of course, you could also argue that there is no real difference between a masonic ritual and any other type of rituals relating to fraternal organizations.

I am actually not that familiar with masonic rituals yet so I am not sure. But I would guess that most sororities that had rituals written by women would not be like a masonic one because most of those ladies (none of them??) were masons, so how would they know? However, masonic rituals, from what I've gathered, have thier roots in other religions philosophies ancient rituals etc, so it would not be unheard of for some of them to have similarities anyway. Most rituals in general follow a pretty uniform order or have some of the same elements (admittance, ritual cleansing, revelation of mysteries, oaths of secrecy, personal sacrifice, acceptance into the group, ec), so that is going to be a common thread between them regardless of masonic affiliation.

Originally posted by slickwilly95991
I read in pledged about how black sororities are more community service oriented while traditional sororities are more social. I've only really witnessed black organizations on 2 campuses and not really noticed any difference between their traditional counterpart. What is it like on your campuses? I've noticed about the same community service, the only difference being the types of benefit. For instance, traditional organizations tend to give to bigger issues, like american cancer society, red cross, children's network, make a wish, etc. While black organizations tend to support black issues, NAACP, Negro College Fund, Sickle cell, other cultural and civil rights type issues.
Just curious what others think on this issue.

Historically black GLO's are self described as service organizations not social ones. Part of their agenda or purpose is to uplift the African American community. They have community chapters that are not part of any college and one may join a community chapter even if you didn't join a college one. They are highly secretive in their selection process and do not RUSH like the NPC ones do. They hold informational meetings and then if a girl decides she want to join, she contacts that chapter-not about joining, but about how she can start doing community service with them etc. One is actually required to prove her serious intent before an invitation to join is given. Then the pledging starts and that is very secret. I have no idea how long or what it entails. But they are Expected to remain active after college and not go alumnae. Their dues are very expensive and one is required to pay initiation, pledging and the first few YEARS of national and chapter dues up front. So it is very expensive(about $2,000) and I've heard that alumnae and community dues are even higher, so you must be VERY serious about joining. Regardless of the chapter, it is considered elite in the black community to belong to any of these groups. Whereas, belonging to say Kappa Delta at Columbus State College is not as prestigious as being a Kappa Delta at Old Miss. Every girl that rushes at Columbus State (unless she has really really bad grades or something) gets a bid into a sorority, but at Old Miss only about half get to join.

[edit on 14-8-2004 by sunshinekappa]

at my school when you fill out your rush sheet you put your gpa down. the sororities don't go looking at them.
side note. SunshineKappa where did you come from. you can out of nowhere and jumped in like you have been here the whole time.

Just wanted to jump in and say hello to Nikki, Slick, dtd and everyone else! Looks like SunshineKappa has filled in nicely since I have been away. Keep it coming everything looks great. I will be over in the ring hunt for a while so U2U me if I dont peep in here too often.

Try not to let the man get ya down, and be careful with the ritual advertisement.


S&C

Originally posted by sunshinekappa
Once again, I would like to say this is the exception NOT the rule!There is also a difference between saying "anyone who wants to touch up her highlights before rush can get it done at yada yada for a discount" and "You MUST get highlights before rush at yada yada"....
Panhellenic also has a rule that no sorority can force its members to wear exactly matching outfits. They may wear similar, but not exactly matching. Any sorority doing this may be brought up on infractions and have to pay fines. Even at Old Miss, they might say-wear a button up white collared shirt, tucked in with a brown belt that has a silver buckle, brown closed toes leather loafers, khaki pants that are not jeans and are not capris and silver lavelier necklace." BUT they CANNOT say "wear this particular GAP white collard button up with these particular Banana Republic pants and these 9west shoes and belt and these Tiffanys earrings." They CAN NOT do that. Telling a girl with Shakira like roots "hey-you thinking about doing something about that before next week?" is different than "You will go get your hair done".

It sounds like rush can be really expensive, both for the chapter and for the individual members. There are the "similar" clothes, the decorations, the skits, ....

rush is nothing compared to big sis/lil sis. they have to buy so much for their lil sis. where i go to school the big sis's buy gifts for their lil sis everyday for a week and then shower them on the last day. that is costly.

Sorry it seems like I jumped in from out of nowhere. I registered several months ago and lost my password. I have been lurking for quite a while.

Originally posted by conflation

Originally posted by sunshinekappa
Once again, I would like to say this is the exception NOT the rule!There is also a difference between saying "anyone who wants to touch up her highlights before rush can get it done at yada yada for a discount" and "You MUST get highlights before rush at yada yada"....
Panhellenic also has a rule that no sorority can force its members to wear exactly matching outfits. They may wear similar, but not exactly matching. Any sorority doing this may be brought up on infractions and have to pay fines. Even at Old Miss, they might say-wear a button up white collared shirt, tucked in with a brown belt that has a silver buckle, brown closed toes leather loafers, khaki pants that are not jeans and are not capris and silver lavelier necklace." BUT they CANNOT say "wear this particular GAP white collard button up with these particular Banana Republic pants and these 9west shoes and belt and these Tiffanys earrings." They CAN NOT do that. Telling a girl with Shakira like roots "hey-you thinking about doing something about that before next week?" is different than "You will go get your hair done".

It sounds like rush can be really expensive, both for the chapter and for the individual members. There are the "similar" clothes, the decorations, the skits, ....

Once again, it really depends on the school. The bigger the chapter, the more expensive it can get. But I would not want to discourage a young woman from joining at any school. Many schools, it is very affordable. My dues are only $50 per month. That took care of my dues, and going to formal. Now t-shirts, gifts etc are different. But we buy our friends presents and do fun things anyway regardless of it being sorority or not. At some schools-like University of Florida, it is actually cheaper to be ina sorority and live in the house and be on their meal plan than it is to live in the dorms and be on the dorm meal plan. Sororities hav to be upfront abot the money required before you pledge. That way no one is blindsided.

that is how it is at our school. It really is cheaper to be greek than not be greek. the bars give the greek community coupons(i know it is cheezy) to the bar to get in cheaper than the non greek. so i guess it does pay to pay for your friends.

Originally posted by qwerty99
that is how it is at our school. It really is cheaper to be greek than not be greek. the bars give the greek community coupons(i know it is cheezy) to the bar to get in cheaper than the non greek. so i guess it does pay to pay for your friends.

Just in case any potential new members are reading this board, I'd like to tell everyone that the financial aspects of most groups are public knowledge and the money goes towards very specific things. I know my dues went to insurance, formal, food, housing, utilities, leadership confrences, programming, some social funstions, transportation etc. The books have to be immaculately kept and are audited by a committee once a year and by the national organization once a year as well as monthly reports that have to be filed. Administration costs as well are taken out of dues-stamps, letterhead, postage etc. we also offer scholarships and grants and emergency funds for members in need. All of these things come out of our dues. Most campus and professional organizations have dues that must be paid so that things can run smoothly. And I wish my campus gave a discount to us at the bars! Man, that would be nice. But alas, our well drinks costs the same!