Explorations into the Ultraterrestrial Hypothesis:A Journey into Extradimensional Realities & Otherw

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I appreciate your post and your way of thinking.You made some great points.I understand most individuals skepticism dealing with the topics in my Op,and for the majority these subjects,theories and reports upon initially viewing seem to be "constructs" of mere hallucinations,overactive imaginations or the ramblings of a delusional person and in some cases,attention seekers looking for their 15 minutes of limelight.

Personally though,I feel that even if it is a very small percentage of the overall number of reports,that some of them are just as they seem: Incredible,unbelievable experiences that happen to credible,normal individuals that have no reason to fabricate their stories nor are they looking for attention.

In most cases the complete opposite happens to the person(s) involved,where only negativity in sues from their sharing of their experience(s).I agree not only with the parapsychological aspect not getting enough attention but the phenomena and experiences being discarded,disputed and ignored as a whole in general.Although presently these subjects have caught the attention & respect they deserve and hopefully that attitude and acceptance continues to increase and possibly we can get a better understanding of what exactly is going on

As far as Keen being 100% credible and not coming from a science background, imo doesn't take away from his overall commitment,research and what he has offered to the paranormal & UFO community.I enjoy his ideas and as with the previously other two mentioned researchers Vallee and Hynek,Between the three have paved the way for modern paranormal & UFO researchers and their work is invaluable to us even presently.


Imbrogno does come from a science background and as I have previously stated,I recommend his material pertaining to the Op and personally believe he continues to carry the torch in breaking new ground and keeping alternative ideas & theories relevant to the UFO & Paranormal phenomena available to those interested in exploring different avenues of research & theory.

So I would definitely check him out before coming to any conclusions as you have said(Files from the edge,interdimensional universe and ultraterrestrial contact are the three I have read and they come highly reccomended )

Most of what we "think" we know even in mainstream science is simply as you have put it 'Speculative' I am only pointing out that science has often been wrong and the overall route we take in discerning unknown,weird and paranormal research or the lack of relating to anomalous phenomena is shoddy at best.As long as modern science continues to think,theorize and look only within the physical Material world for answers we may never get the answers we desire and deserve to know.

there needs to be a new paradigm offered,digested and implemented if we are to hope for our science & educators to prove or disprove anything along the lines of UFOs,paranormal and parapsychological aspects of the unknown.

I hate to put labels on anything unexplainable myself,I was only pointing out the similarities involving Jinn and the legends about them relavent to ultraterrestrials and extradimenional entities.

You are right in saying we may never know,but I personally refuse to accept that and continue to ponder our reality and let my imagination run wild to the magnificent wonders that lie hidden within & externally from ourselves

Don't know how I missed this before but S&F, PerfectPerception!

Throwing around words like Ultraterrestrial or Interdimensional while at the same time marginalizing the ETH doesn't seem to be too popular around here ha, but I think the basic concept is picking up steam.

I'm going to dig into your links and I'm sure I'll be back. But before I go do that, I'll leave the following link to an excellent article that not only addresses the issue of whether many of our ufologists have short-changed us by ignoring the high-strangeness aspects of many cases but also references some interesting incidents that I hadn't heard of before.

Curiouser and Curiouser: ‘High Strangeness’ UFO Encounters.
Gareth J. Medway

Aww heck, I'll throw this one in here as well because it's fascinating imo, well-written and also includes the drawing of the entity "Lam" whom Aleister Crowley claimed contact with:

Ritual Magic, Mind Control and the UFO Phenomenon

Sheesh--I can't control my linking --one more and I'm fo' real off to peruse your links. It's an excellent OP by mikeboydus and synthesizes a lot of topics that will probably interest anyone drawn to the subject matter of this OP:

They Come From Within

Btw, mikeboydus: Gotta give Keel his due credit...he was one of the first--certainly one of the most vociferous--to proffer/popularize the concept. I have the personal belief that Hynek & Vallee were swayed by his writing/observations.

Perception is everything. Our dimensions run parallel enough, you can see the figures in your peripherial vision or a.k.a. Your Mind's Eye. The more you meditate the easier you can see them.. Tiny rifts in time. Time travel is controlled Deja vu.

reply to post by 9Cib27


I also believe a parallel dimension runs along side our 3rd density dimension,it is so close,yet not visible to us 99% of time and for the common individual not experienced.
some who are sensitive are more likely to see and experience these anomalies.

reply to post by The GUT


thank you for the links and input.
I will have to go check out the websites,articles and thread when I get the chance.appreciate it.

I wanted to present information that dealt with the interdimensional/ultraterrestrial aspect and theory of ufo & alien reports and the beings themselves.The e.t.h. (extraterrestrial theory hypothesis) is the most well known,researched and popularly recognized as the origins of these experiences.
I feel that could be a mistake on researchers & those whom experienced these mysterious happenings,limiting our ideas and theories to only the e.t.h.,is narrow mindedness and foolish imo.

Thanks for all that information but let me ask you this: what type of human energy do the ultraterrestrials feed off of? Like emotions, love, hate, or ?

Originally posted by Topato
Thanks for all that information but let me ask you this: what type of human energy do the ultraterrestrials feed off of? Like emotions, love, hate, or ?

There's no evidence that they do actually do that if this scenario is true. Some people think they do, others don't. Same goes for the control system aspect, but when it comes to that I'd say that yeah, there's some type of control system. The problem is what type of control system? Good or bad? I think it's neutral but there's no way to back up that claim at all. When it comes down to it I don't think we're able to grasp what's actually going on. We can only really make theories. Some will probably know, but for some reason they don't speak.

Wrote an article on my site about this the other day, because personally this theory is one that interests me more than any other. There's rules about linking to websites/promoting websites so am just pasting it without a link :

The term Ultraterrestrial was first used by the Journalist and Ufologist John Keel in his 1970 book Operation Trojan Horse. (He also wrote The Mothman Prophecies.) It differs from the theory of Extraterrestrials in that Ultraterrestrials (Written as ET's and UT's from now onwards.) didn't have to come from vast distances of space via space travel, and that they could even be an advanced race from this planet, capable of shapeshifting and crossing into/coming from different dimensions and/or realities. Keel also thought that many accounts of mythical beings like Elves, Vampires, etc, could be attributed to the same phenomena.

Several other Ufologists have had and do still have, similar or even the same types of ideas. Scientist and Ufologist Jacques Vallee also believed that the UFO phenomena could be related to mythological beings recorded throughout history, and that they could cross dimensions/realities. He advanced his own theory known as the Interdimensional Hypothesis which covered this, and deals with it in several of his books. One widely regarded as one of his best is Passport To Magonia, written in 1969.

Another, J. Allen Hynek, was one of the most well known and respected Ufologists, and also a Scientist. He was also a scientific consultant to the U.S. Air Force for projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book, projects that tried to study UFO's from 1947-1969. He co-wrote The Edge of Reality with Vallee on the subject in 1975. Philip Imbrogno is also a well respected Ufologist and co-wrote a book on the Hudson Valley UFO's with Hynek called Night Siege. He's also the author of the book Ultraterrestrial Contact. Jerome Clark was influenced by both Keel and Vallee's theories, and later co-wrote a book on the subject with Loren Coleman. Finally Mac Tonnies came up with the Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis, similar to some of the ideas of Vallee and Keel.

Amongst these theories there's also the idea that several sightings and abduction scenarios are more psychological in nature, and that whoever's causing them can actually alter the way we perceive things. So in many cases it's more down to manipulation of the minds of witnesses and abductees.

So if you leave to one side the theory that it's the military with advanced technology responsible for the phenomenon, where does Ufology go with these conflicting ET and UT theories? Hynek seemed to be on the right track. From his speech at the first International UFO Congress in Chicago, 1977 :

"There is sufficient evidence to defend both the ETI (Extraterrestrial Intelligence) and the EDI (Extradimensional Intelligence) Hypothesis."

"Do we have two aspects of one phenomenon, or two different sets of phenomena?"

It might turn out that the theories and hypotheses mentioned above could all be true to some degree, and that there are ET and UT UFO's out there. The question will be how to go about telling the difference between types. Would you have to bring in an extra classification system that tries to distinguish between each type? And how much would that complicate the Vallee and Hynek classification systems that are already used for UFO encounters?

Of course, in the end, maybe it's just the military with advanced technology after all, and they've got millions of us all over the world wondering what's going on. But if that's the case, how does it explain for all the sightings throughout history? Flying around in advanced tech is one thing, but with the types of things witnessed and experienced it seems way too complex to pass everything off as that.

Will leave this with a quote from Vallee, from Alternate Perceptions Magazine, 2006 :

"When you begin to study this phenomenon the first-degree ET hypothesis seems like the best one. With the passage of time and the accumulation of reports, including those from people that reported psychic effects, it becomes clear that it is too limited to explain the facts. As always in science, when such a situation presents itself, you must go back to basics and re-examine the data. We need to open the full spectrum of potential hypotheses instead of simply selecting data that fit our preconceptions."



Some Links :

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...
www.jacquesvallee.net...
www.book-of-thoth.com...
issuu.com...

Some ideas to help keep people's minds open if there's any reality to them :

Abilities :

a) can change dimensions.
b) alter time.
c) alter reality.
d) cloak themselves.
e) shapeshift.
f) change Human perception,
g) alter feelings, thoughts and memories.
h) can program our minds and/or bodies with certain information, thoughts, feelings, memories, (and/or can remove and/or alter memories.) habits, sensations or perceptions.
i) a mixture of the above.

Origins :

Could be Aliens from another place in the universe, or from a dimension near Earth and have been here longer, the same time as, or for a shorter time than Humans have. Could be Humans that are from Earth that have evolved further than us, or a different species from Earth that's evolved past us in some ways or all ways. Or could be a mixture.

Could be working with :

a) members of governments.
b) some members of the public.
c) Aliens from other places.
d) a species that's evolved past us in some or all ways from this planet.
e) any mixture of the above.

Activities. Could be :

a) keeping us at a certain level.
b) helping us evolve.
c) working with us for scientific, technological, psychological or spiritual reasons, or a mixture.
d) wanting to use our energy in certain ways.
e) wanting to use our bodies in certain ways.
f) just watching us evolve while not interfering.
g) protecting us from another/several other species.
h) helping another/several other species attack us.
i) attacking both ourselves and another/several other species.
j) protecting both ourselves and another/several other species.
k) just watching us evolve and protecting the planet and/or other animals.
l) just watching us evolve and protecting the solar system, bigger area for certain reasons.
m) just watching us evolve and protecting another dimension/other dimensions.
n) any mixture of the above.



Am just listing possibilities for research basically.

A thought about some religious and mythological figures too : they might have been aware of Ultraterrestrials and had the ability to defend themselves/be helped by their influence, (or maybe there's UT factions that help, attack us, or both.) or maybe they shared one of, some of, or all of their abilities. Or they were actually Ultraterrestrials once they got their abilities, and either we can do the same if developed enough, or they were just sent to help, or in some cases with mythological figures, to possibly hinder or stall our progress for certain reasons.

Sorry, the last post was basic compared to what it is now after about 30 edits, and I think it about covers the bases. If you think there's anything significant that might've been missed there, thanks if you can let me know.

Originally posted by PerfectPerception
I remember reading somewhere that drawings/depictions of conjured & channeled entities by magicians & mediums had a strikingly similarity to modern day "alien" being reports.

PerfectPerception, intriguing thread and Spacevisitor's post here of Aleister Crowley's 'Lam' does indeed look a bit freaky - I also think the sheer variety of reports tends to lend more credence to alternative explanations like the IDH and I don't know if you've read it but Jacques Vallee touches on some interesting points in this book:

Dimensions -Jacques Vallee.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dfcd5787c297.jpg[/atsimg]

In Dimensions, the first volume of a trilogy, Dr. Jacques Vallee reexamines the historical record that led to the modern UFO phenomenon and to the belief in alien contact. He then tackles the enigma of abduction reports, which come from various times and various countries, as well as the psychic and spiritual components of the contact experience. In the last portion of the book, he notes the factors that inhibit research into the phenomenon – the triple coverup and political motivations – and concludes that the extraterrestrial theory is simply not strange enough to explain the facts.

Link (pdf)

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12


Thanks for the link! I should probably own that book already, but that will do at least until I get hold of it. Looking forward to reading the chapter titled 'The Control System' already, seeing as I've been obsessing like mad over it recently, and also part two, where it's split into Emotional, Psychic, Celestial and Spiritual. Thanks again.

I actually think Vallee is about to become a big influence on me anyway. Will hopefully end up with all his books somehow, there's just something about the way he describes things that makes sense.

Originally posted by AutOmatIc
Excellent post OP s&f! I often have entertained the theory that what we are only beginning to scratch the surface of truth, that extraterrestrials are indeed interdimensional, and have possibly been around for much longer than previously thought.

Good post by op.
ET's may well be from our dimension as well as other dimension.
Intradimensional transition is not all that easy as the physics and chemistry of each dimension is unique
and creatures from one dimension cannot necessarily survive in other dimensions.

Originally posted by Ophiuchus 13
reply to post by PerfectPerception

 

I enjoyed the read very informative and well written.

S&F

Ditto :-)

You were...promising.... Till you launched the ultraterrestrials term. No offense intended but I am a man that tend to go to the 'plausible' side and how more plausible and boring something is, how closer it is towards the truth. Local folklore is something made up by people based upon things they couldn explain at the time, or merely to entertain oneselves with such as stories.
Just as everything, the most succesfull folklore reaches the furthest (like most poeple know about elves).
It is in no way ultraterrestrial in my mind. Ofcourse, your theorie is a cute angle to the whole.

reply to post by PerfectPerception


i lived on Superstition montain in Arizona in the 1960s.

encounters with beings that defied my understanding of physics, led me to study the sacred texts of many Faiths to try and understand the events i witnessed.

i came to the conclusion that many dimentions exists.

one type of beings made sounds like very rapidly beating wings, had an earthy smell and could go through walls, while preventing me to see him.
left the room when attacked by a desert cat.( an earth spirit?)

others were visible, but not all made of the same type of matter.
a white light being resembling human that was seen by many visitors.(angel?)
his visits would really spook the cat and dog, who tought i could protect them, made me laugh.

two huge oval eyes, surrounded by grey mist.
seen twice at the instant of death of pets.

i am non dominational, and reading the sacred text of various Faiths, came to the conclusion that we interpret what we see according to our culture.

i never felt in danger and they never harmed anyone.

There have been threads on ATS discussing a parallel dimension, an anti-earth, and multiple time line dimensions. I believe one of the threads talks about a test done in a University of San Diego lab, (I could be wrong, but it was in California), they did some electron experiment with temperature, and discovered that 1 electron is actually in two places at once which suggests a parallel dimension (something along those lines). Meaning you can be eating pizza in New York at 8pm, and you can be sitting in traffic in Los Angeles at 2pm. I think the conclusion was something like that. Sorry I can't provide a link, hopefully someone has read what I'm talking about.

I googled searched for anti earth but to my surprise nothing came up, it sounds like something out of a comic book, but I've heard Michio Kaku use the term before. So I started looking up antimatter and antiparticles and eventually I was led to quantum mechanics. I guess some of the philosophy with the quantum world has to do a lot with probability, and I was directed to the Many Worlds Interpretation which is pretty interesting.

It basically states that every outcome exists in a parallel dimension. If that is the case, then what if one scenario ended up developing some strange advanced life more advanced than humans.

Jesus Christ has been representing The Man in The Trinity,
now some new religion with the duality prominent in it can
emerge, terrestrials plus UTS.

reply to post by game over man
during the 1960s, while in the Us Air Force, i met a family that asked if i would translate passages written in French to English.

a passage was about the Kabbalah.

Love, Gentleness, Wisdom, Harmony, Justice, Beauty, Strength, Firmness, Kingdom, and Crown.

the meaning of each concept found in the previous two, all working together.

then the article said the origin was unknown.

that according to some tradition, it was said to have been known to Moses, teaching that predate the creation of man, and was of origin, teaching for the Archangels.

if you look at this as concepts, where religion and science meet.

how beings of other dimentions could interact with us, is likely.

You know it occurs to me that not everyone understands what the OP is trying to get at in a thread like this: This is probably NOT an opportunity to just spew your latest religious theory. There actually is a body of evidence (yes evidence) and interpretation here that if you are actually familiar with it then that will in all probability make variious and sundry religious groups extremely uncomfortable. Having said that I also start to realize the full scale of the task that is hinted at in these (those coherent and rational) musings.