In the 21st century, why does Freemasonry still discriminate against women ?

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

The earliest enactments of the western mysteries were not segregated according to gender as far as I can tell.

Depends on which mysteries we're talking about. The earliest ones do indeed appear to be gender segregated, some of which are still in existence in shamanic tribes. The Osirian Mysteries were segregated, with the Mysteries of Isis being only for females. The Mysteries of Mithras were also male-only, while the Grecian Mysteries conferred at Eleusis were open to both sexes.

I think the Golden Dawn did a good thing by allowing women, but the Rosicrucian mysteries and Masonic ones are not identical, with the Masonic being those of the Osirian-Mithraic model.

reply to post by Masonic Light

I think the Golden Dawn did a good thing by allowing women, but the Rosicrucian mysteries and Masonic ones are not identical, with the Masonic being those of the Osirian-Mithraic model.

I am sure if it does it's a tightly gaurded secret, but do these mysteries actually disclose what the heck happens to the missing socks after your clothes come out of the dryer?

If they do just cough twice, if they don't just cough once.

Thanks.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I am sure if it does it's a tightly gaurded secret, but do these mysteries actually disclose what the heck happens to the missing socks after your clothes come out of the dryer?

Those mysteries are reserved to devotees of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. According to her Adepts, such socks are raptured.

reply to post by Masonic Light

“We believe in One Unicorn, The Pink, The Invisible. Creator of Uncertainty, Keeper of Chaos, our Maker, revealed unto us in the alt.atheist usenet forum. She that Raptures Socks, She will smite those that mock Her brethren. When heathens partake in baloney, she invites her loyal servants to join the feast. We shall eat our fill, yea every belly shall be full with pure, untarnished, unadulterated, suffer-free pizza. Her revelations show us the folly of all religions, our personal insignificance, the understanding of existence, and the importance of 42. Spread Her Word.”

www.varsity.co.nz...

42? That's Jack Lambert's number, and yes I am sure Pittsburgh would have won the most recent Super Bowl if he was playing.

At last the true religon has been found, break out the tomato sauce, role the dough, grade the cheese and let us eat pizza till we are bloated and full and rejoice that the dark days of humanity are finally at an end.

Hold on while I check with my Conch Shell though, I would not want to upset Lord Vishnu.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Depends on which mysteries we're talking about. The earliest ones do indeed appear to be gender segregated, some of which are still in existence in shamanic tribes. The Osirian Mysteries were segregated, with the Mysteries of Isis being only for females. The Mysteries of Mithras were also male-only, while the Grecian Mysteries conferred at Eleusis were open to both sexes.

By Western mysteries, I was referring to the Eleusian, I should have been more specific. Mithras was a much later adoption and worked in conjuction with the military occupation, serving to assimilate tribalism into Roman legions. And in terms of Egypt, Persia and the Levant, the 'mysteries' that precede segregation of communion, generally, as in those that are not simply rites of passage, which do, clearly, differ between the gender experience, are rarely talked about outside of archaelogical circles.

When you look to the earliest expressions of 'religion', environment is the key factor. Since the practices, or the cultural structure that developed in the Near East, has come to dominate the 'West', that of Eve being made of Adam, and therefore an extension of him and his property. In Egypt, especially in the earlier dynasties, there is a clear understanding of the physiological differences between the genders, which is coupled with a comprehension of the similarities of intellect, the part of the brain that they represent as the 'crown' in symbology.

The way in which Shamanism is practiced depends upon the environment and then the economy. The harsher the environment, the harder it is to reproduce and the greater the emphasis on protecting reproducing females and off-spring. The mother is valued and to an extent enjoyed ease. Interestingly enough, a recent study by the University of York Department of Archaeology found that the development of the 'Sling' to carry small children, while leaving the hands free, 60,000 years ago was a possible catalyst for our social development. In so far as, instead of being stuck in caves with nothing much to do but paint and the such like, due to the danger of predators, the mother's could get busy and started growing things around the caves and started keeping animals. I digress though, Shamanism, in short depends on the environment and the dominant cultural influence as to whether it is segregational or not, though most cultures do have an inner core 'Secret Society' of Hunters, which is male only. The Mithriac Cults were very much a refinement of that structure, something familiar but prissied up, knowing enough to create awe with 'magic'...Kipling's The Man who would be King...sort of thing.

Men need something which is their own space - so do women.

If men and women can't escape from each other sometimes, everyone will go nuts.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
The Mithriac Cults were very much a refinement of that structure, something familiar but prissied up, knowing enough to create awe with 'magic'...Kipling's The Man who would be King...sort of thing.

And, of course, both Kipling and the character he wrote in "The Man Who Would Be King" were Masons.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


There are other branches of Masonsry for women. My Great-Grandmother belonged to the Order of the Eastern Star when I grew up with her. I was raised in Baldwinsville New York so I don't know if they are everywhere. She never talked about it but, got dressed up beautifully and attended these meetings alone without my Great Grandfather. This was over 30 years ago but, I looked it up to see if I could get some old photos from the group and they are affiliated.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes


I don't believe in the conspiracy theory that Freemasonry is some sort of malevolent organisation, or that members hold some esoteric knowledge that non-Masons are not privy to.
In fact, I consider Freemasonry to be little more than an old boy's club.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

You sure about that? That's exactly what they want us to think. Bohemian Grove, Illuminati and Freemasonry are ALL RELATED.

Here is footage Alex Jones shot of Bohemian Grove, the only outsider we know of that has gone in. It shows the Cremation of Care ceremony, a burning of an effigy in front of a giant owl statue. Old men in a cult, scary.

www.youtube.com...

When some of the most powerful men in the world get together and participate in these types of strange rituals, it makes you think that maybe they do not have the peoples' best interests in mind.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
And, of course, both Kipling and the character he wrote in "The Man Who Would Be King" were Masons.

Yes I know. 'If' is a favourite poem of mine. 'Kim' one of the finest spy novels ever written, in my opinion. Kipling ticks many of my boxes. I've also always enjoyed the acting of Ernest Bourgnine.

I have no issue with Freemasons as individuals.

This is my favourite Kipling, talks of other types of 'magic' and is very much in keeping with the discussion if not the OP...

boop.org...

A man who saw far more than that which was presented to him.

I am currently reading The Hobbit to my son. By another Freemason. We read The Chronicles of Narnia not long back. Yet another one. I have learnt a great deal from those two in particular. Good men.

Originally posted by Topato
You sure about that? That's exactly what they want us to think. Bohemian Grove, Illuminati and Freemasonry are ALL RELATED.

Here is footage Alex Jones shot of Bohemian Grove, the only outsider we know of that has gone in. It shows the Cremation of Care ceremony, a burning of an effigy in front of a giant owl statue. Old men in a cult, scary.

www.youtube.com...

When some of the most powerful men in the world get together and participate in these types of strange rituals, it makes you think that maybe they do not have the peoples' best interests in mind.

So, which ones in Alex Jones' video were Freemasons. How do you know? Did you recognize them from your local lodge? See pictures of them in Freemason magazines? Or on lodge websites? And which people in Alex's video are the most powerful men in the world? I'd love to put the faces to some actual names...

(Sorry to go offtopic, but Topato apparently has "proof" that none of the internet, nor the thousands of threads about Alex Jones on ATS, have ever shown before!)

reply to post by JoshNorton


Topato has one, old, tired video that has been rehashed a million times. Even the elite men that go to these things realize what a silly and worthless event that it is.

I guess people don't realize that the main function of all these events is to see, and be seen. It is networking. It is validation. It isn't some supernatural event, it is a high-end retreat where you can make sure your peers and competitors know that you are part of the group. Maybe you make a contact that helps you get a contract or a campaign donation. Maybe you get a leg up on a competitor that wasn't invited. Who knows, but the point is, there is no supernatural power, and it is not related to Freemasonry.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

 

******************************************************************************************
As to your baseless claim of "subjugation of women." Maybe you should meet some Masonic wives before you toss that out there. Family is extremely important, and Masonry is a vessel for "making good men better," so you necessarily find some of the happiest and most successful marriages you've ever seen. Masonic brothers help one another out through hard marital times, and we teach love, respect, charity, etc. I'll bet you the shirt off my back that you cannot find a woman married to a Mason that will tell you we subjugate women. You might find some that say we hijack too much of their husband's time, but you won't find any that say we are not the utmost respectful and kind to women.

edit on 25-1-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given=

I am the wife of a Mason and you have lost your bet. Masons - some at least - most definitely subjugate women.

Further:

1. I have seen absolutely no evidence in the more that 10 years that my husband has been a Mason that family is extremely important. In fact only evidence to the contrary, for example mason only social gatherings organised on Sunday afternoons. Tomorrow is Valentine's day and just maybe I would like to spend the evening with my husband, but, no, he has a 'commitment' at Lodge. Coming home at 12:30 at night (not just him, many of his 'brothers' do the same,) knowing that I do not sleep well due to crime (I have already been robbed at gun point during the night in my home) and that I need to get up at 5 to go to work the next day. Less that 4.5 hours sleep a night is NOT kind to me, Nor to the other wives that put up with the same.

Hijacking my husband's time is NOT kind to me.

So please explain how family is important when it takes my husband away from his family 2-3 times a week and puts him in danger because he is driving late at night (the society we live in is extremely violent).

2. The argument that sex would get in the way is non-sense. My husband's mother lodge has several gays, and I suspect strongly that one of them had a crush on my husband,

3. Excluding women based on the fact that tradititionally women did not belong to stone mason's guilds is not historically accurate. There is historic evidence that women did indeed become stone masons, and were admitted to the guilds, esepecially in the case where the wife supported her husband in his work i.e. she was skilled) and he died, allowing the wife to carrying on her husband's trade and support the family.

4. I know for some men that masonry is about making business contacts, or social-climbing reason (yes, I know that this is not encouraged) but it IS a fact, but for my husband it is for spiritual reasons, So, by my sex I am denied sharing this very personal aspect of his life with him (but the gays can?) and not participate in his spiritual life.

5. I was invited to join a 'co-ed' lodge, While my husband would be welcome at this lodge as a visitor, if the word got out, he would chucked out of his male masonry lodge as they are forbidden from from associating with lodges they don't recognise e.g a 'co-ed' lodge. I wonder why on earth would this be other than to exert undue control over the members?

6. My husband's lodge has never, in 10 years, invited wives to any social event. Oh, I forgot about a year-end dinner where the gay with a crush on my husband looked daggers at me all night.

7. I have accompanied my husband to a ladies' night at another lodge. Um... let's see... Karaoke night. How exciting and intellectually stimulating.

8. One 'well-respected' mason in my husband's lodge couldn't give me a water-tight reason for excluding women. He eventually fell to the argument that men need to get together to do manly things. My mind boggles as to exactly what that means.

Subjugation does not have to be overt in the sense of beating up your wife. Belonging to an organisation that excludes women is enough. Not too many years ago, in the courntry where I live at least, jewish people were not allowed into most country clubs. This seems ludicrous today and very discrimnatory. How is freemasonry any different?

edit on 13-2-2011 by Ouette because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-2-2011 by Ouette because: (no reason given)

extra DIV