Why Gold and Silver are dropping ...

reply to post by SaturnFX


would you agree regarding bursting bubbles that the .com perceived wealth finally came to near naught?
2nd
f

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by SaturnFXI think the overall point is...currency itself is just an illusion.

An illusion compared to what reality? The law of the jungle?

Bartering

But how does that help me? Am I supposed to start bartering at the grocery store? Or with the cable company?

Or am I supposed to prepare for the possible need for bartering in a post-apocalypic wasteland, even if it cripples my budget in the here-and-now?

I just don't see how your entire line of reasoning is supposed to do anything for anyone except yourself.

Originally posted by OnTheFelt
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Your first mistake is pricing gold to dollars. Gold buggers like myself do not price in leveraged speculation and charts. We price gold in the behaviors of nations and their people.

Oh lord! This is some vodo right here friend. Truth is ones first mistake is paying for gold in cash to beginn with.

If the TPTB and its monkeys make the price cheaper, well then, let me be the first to back up my truck for delivery. What you fail to understand is that physical gold is the best way to preserve wealth when currency is debased. Silver is second to gold.

I can think of about 100 things that will be worth far more than gold when currency is debased. Gold is rather a clumbsy trading instrument outside of its relationship to cash value. Golds relationship to cash, which is what one has to pay for it, is like a fluctualing majic scale that has little realtionship with real world exchange considerations when the SHTF. And you said it "If the TPTB and its monkeys make the price cheaper"....and all remember that these "monkeys" are playing at both ends....you cant beat the monkey at their own game and gold/paper is their game.

You are looking at this market as a speculator and are therefore soon to be fleeced. About the time you figure out the difference between wealth and money.

You are talking about a game that only the wealthy can play to begin with. One will never learn about wealth by speculating or hording of gold. Gold simply gives the simple an illusion of some sort of wealth and economic acumen. Gold is the backup con for the paper boys when their paper fails.

Bottom line... 5 to 10 years from now, gold and silver will still have value, any value. All paper assets will have been obliterated. Simple as that.

A wheelbarrow full of paper....a wheelbarrow full of gold....both have their time if things get bad enough.

Sure the paper will have gone full cycle and be replaced with something new but that new whatever it may be is not what most people will have access to because in the interim their paper holdings of old will get exchanged for fractions on the new but gold and silver will maintain their original value.

Gold will likewise be subject to the "fractions" and will not keep its "original" value simply becouse its value in this sort of exchange is based on on cash. How can something hold "original' value when the "original" exchange value has been fractionalized? It cant. You will end up giving a truckload of gold for a small stack of new paper.

That's how its done during a currency reform and debt restructuring.

Right.

The Dollar is based on debt. The debt cannot be repaid. Therefore the promise to pay becomes more like a maybe and we'll see how much sort of thing. Repayment in full is impossible, even the debt service in full is impossible.

But they will take your gold and give you paper and then set about on the same cycle of devaluation of paper. Its a way to "steal" gold and in the meantime get you to float their paper buy spending it on gold. Thats what all this gold buying is doing now its floating their paper scam.

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by SaturnFXI think the overall point is...currency itself is just an illusion.

An illusion compared to what reality? The law of the jungle?

Well what would I want with gold if everyone was starving and I had a celler full of food? And I had hords with gold wanting to buy food? I could sell it and then starve. Eat gold. Now if a guy traded me ammo so that I could hunt meat then whats gold? A valueless shiny metal.

Originally posted by unityemissions
It's easy... fools have been saying not to buy precious metals for a long time.

I first heard this when it was at it's low in October of 2008. I

at them then, purchased my first bit the first week of November, and have been doing so with every extra bit since then.

The price has since tripled in what? 27 months now. Yeah, whatever guys. You can say it's a scam. You can abstract to the point of oblivion, but the reality is it's purchasing power has been increasing for quite some time in recent years, and will continue to do so as the fiat currencies become toast.

edit on 20-1-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

Dude this is great but you got to hit the window.

If a guy had bought gold years ago of a large amount he could have sold at 1000oz and in the bad economy and made hay with his cash. But if one waits and doesnt hit that honey spot they cant sell gold when the price starts droping. A holder has to know when to get out and needs to buy a lot of it when its cheep. Thats why it largly a wealthy mans game.

This idea of holding gold for the long run only matters when you buy cheep and sell when the market is high and hot and that is always durring bad times so you can get more for your cash using it . Look at the price of homes now, you can really pick up a deal. The man with cash two years ago could just come in and buy well in a buyers market.

Buying cheep and seling high before the market falls is the only use for gold. When gold drops its just like a run on the bank, no one wants to buy and you cant get your cash out. But if a guy is only buying 10k worth of gold when its at its curent prices its not going to pay out well. If I had a mill in gold right now that i bought when it was around 300oz I would sell and buy depressed real estate pay off the house ect.

IMHO gold and silver will always have value in any system, barter for goods or paper money. Will paper money always have value? no not the current paper money. So how do you get value for the current paper money you do have, in small amounts? Buy oil paintings? No probably not feasible for most of us. Buy property? sure if you have enough money too but if you have small amounts of cash available then you won't be able to buy more property. Someone mentioned ammo, that would only be useful in a SHTF scenario otherwise ammo is available at the Walmart. Gold and silver have value now as they did in the past, they will still have value in the future. As far as metals go the only other metal to buy would be cooper as it's value is related to it's usefulness and can be used fairly easily.

reply to post by Logarock


Thats what I'm saying. We either accept the reality of an illusion, or we embrace the law of the jungle and the tooth-and-nail bartering that comes with it. The end of living and the beginning of survival.

That makes it a little more than a mere "illusion" in my book. That makes it something worth fighting for which in turn makes it real even if it isn't.

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Student X

Originally posted by SaturnFXI think the overall point is...currency itself is just an illusion.

An illusion compared to what reality? The law of the jungle?

Bartering

But how does that help me? Am I supposed to start bartering at the grocery store? Or with the cable company?

Or am I supposed to prepare for the possible need for bartering in a post-apocalypic wasteland, even if it cripples my budget in the here-and-now?

I just don't see how your entire line of reasoning is supposed to do anything for anyone except yourself.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)

Just a philosophical disagreement that I have stated a few times now.
There is no shiny stone or piece of paper that will forever be held as a pinnicle of currency. a digital number is in fact equal to a shiny rock so long as people hold value in it.

its all an illusion.

Look at the silver market..you will note that silver is exploding far far greater than the gold market, yet for some weird reason, we only hear from the talking puppets of how gold is the great investment...ignoring the exploding silver market.
Why?

because its a bloody scam!

(not that you won't make money off the gold ponzi scheme..you will..probably alot in the short/medium term..but not remotely as much as the silver market)
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/310d5dd6b5f5.jpg[/atsimg]


Incidently, I love how most of the people against what I am saying are resorting to insulting me and purposefully being sarcastic. Pretty much tells me that they know who holds the strong argument here.

Enjoy

Originally posted by fakedirt
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

would you agree regarding bursting bubbles that the .com perceived wealth finally came to near naught?
2nd
f

Hard to say
What is information worth...to some, nothing, to others, invalueable.

The problem is, information currency is not ready to be developed. give it 2-300 years, and information may be the only currency.

I call it a premature movement.

reply to post by SaturnFX


But again, none of what you are saying helps me in the slightest. At least GirlGenius has pointed out an opportunity for me to get some silver at a low point in the price. I am going to buy a few thousand dollars worth of silver rounds. Maybe I will be able to use it to barter with people in my community if and when TSHTF. At least thats SOMETHING. But nothing in your philosophy points to any potentially helpful course of action, at least none that I can see.

reply to post by Student X


Why would anyone buy silver to barter with?
Buying silver is to secure your wealth, not for survival. Pretty much two completely different SHTF scenarios.

The dollar worthless = tSHTF
no food on the shelves (not even hyper inflated tomato soup at 150 dollars a pop) = tSHRRRHTF

reply to post by SaturnFX


Yes you are right. Silver is actually where it is at. The amount of gold in the world is growing, while the amount of silver in the world is being used up (though it can be recycled) in tech by developed countries.

Not to mention the silver price manipulation that has been going on, JP keeping the price down because the higher it rises the less their paper is worth (like they could really be worth less).

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Because I want diversity. I have some survival supplies put aside to the extent of practicality. Now I need something other than paper. Why not get some silver while its low for cripes sake? I'm not going to just sit around harping on about illusions and scams.

Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

But again, none of what you are saying helps me in the slightest. At least GirlGenius has pointed out an opportunity for me to get some silver at a low point in the price. I am going to buy a few thousand dollars worth of silver rounds. Maybe I will be able to use it to barter with people in my community if and when TSHTF. At least thats SOMETHING. But nothing in your philosophy points to any potentially helpful course of action, at least none that I can see.

edit on 20-1-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)

Oh, you want solutions. heh.

erm...ok. solution...take your money and invest in real estate...rocks mean jack overall...real estate will always be worth something...and if everything collapses...you got a place to stay.

plan accordingly though, watch demographics of citys and see which trends towards increased population and business rules favorable for growth.

Invest in silver

reply to post by Student X


Sorry.. I should have been clearer. I think everyone should buy silver. When I said why would you want it to barter with, I really just meant to barter with. Not why would you want it.

Originally posted by SaturnFXerm...ok. solution...take your money and invest in real estate...rocks mean jack overall...real estate will always be worth something...and if everything collapses...you got a place to stay.

The average Joe would probably already own real estate if he could. I'm just an average Joe and I don't have enough money for that. And besides, if everything collapses then why would people respect lines on a map? An owner of real estate had better be prepared to defend it too. No trespassing signs probably won't cut it.

plan accordingly though, watch demographics of citys and see which trends towards increased population and business rules favorable for growth.

I am stuck where my job is.

Invest in silver

Yeah, thanks.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
...The amount of gold in the world is growing, while the amount of silver in the world is being used up (though it can be recycled) in tech by developed countries.

Not sure where you got your info. on gold from, but I don't think that's the case.

As far as silver goes, I think it's being pushed to get people away from gold. Still valuable, but it ain't gold.

Peace

I've started to invest in silver. I don't see myself necessarily using it to buy a loaf of bread. That would not be a fair trade, so it would seem (but then again, who knows what kind of scenario we may see). I see this investment as a savings account when the dollar is worth pennies on the dollar, and transitioning to something else. The transition could take time and in the interim, I believe precious metals will at a minimum hold value, and most likely increase. I can picture a worst case scenario where I and my family may need to hit the road. We may need to set up a new shop, and we may win out because we could offer PMs.

When others are one day standing there with money worth literally nothing and not another tangible investment
as a hedge in the box under the bed, they may regret not putting something away.

Now if you don't believe gold and silver metals are valuable, go buy what you do believe in, but many will still value these 2 metals far into the future, I expect. And yes copper too. Save those pre-1983 pennies, I hear nickels, all of them to date could be good to save too. And dimes and quarters, pre-1965? I'm guessing right now, but take a look at your coins and keep a jar of the good ones.

I might have missed it. Where can I find the story about people trading a wheelbarrow of gold for some groceries? I thought I had a pretty good handle on worthless currencies, but I am eager to learn the details of fiat gold.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Gold is a scam??? Yeah that is why it has out performed every other stock or future 9 of the last 11 years and never fallen below # 3 in the two years it was not # 1.

Oh and you can't really inflate gold unless you can find a new mother load somewhere and introduce millions of ounces to the market overnight. That is why the bankers like fiat money instead cause they can just print it. Gold has never lost its purchasing power in thousands of years despite how many pieces of paper it takes to to trade for it at any given time. I'll trade paper and ink for gold all day long.

This little lull in price is insignificant it will go up to new heights more astonishing then what we have seen already. Why? Because they are printing and creating more money and gold is a direct indicator of how much they are inflating the currency. 7 years ago silver was at 4.75 and gold under 300. Do you see and trend here? It has steadily risen as the economy continues to implode and will continue to do so. Gold will reach 3000 and silver 150 and probably more eventually. When the dollar crashes gold and silver will be the only thing with any purchasing power and those that have it will have preserved some of thier wealth. Those that have fiat money will be burning it for heat and cooking.

Now this is where someone will chime in and say it will be worthless if people are starving. of course it will but it is unlikely we will get to a point where everyone is starving and there is no more trade period. Some may starve but commerce will continue but scaled down, the markets will have corrected and adjusted to the new real economy from the inflated monstrosity we have now. It will be painful but it is coming.