Man held in Koran burning inquiry

Man held in Koran burning inquiry

uk.news.yahoo.com

A man has been arrested after a Koran was allegedly burned during an anti-Islamic rant, police have said.

He was reported to have stood on a street in Carlisle city centre on Wednesday making pronouncements against the Muslim religion in front of a large crowd.

The man is then alleged to have set fire to the Koran he was holding before discarding it on the floor and hurrying away. Officers arrived at the scene a short time later and are now investigating.

A spokesman for Cumbria Constabulary confirmed that a 32-year-old man has been arrested.

He added: "Just after midday on Wednes

(visit the link for the full news article)

This just echoes what i said in my previous thread about Pastor Terry Jones being banned from the UK.

I think what this man has done is disgusting but i see no difference in what this man has done and what islamic extremists have done at various protests throughout England at deceased troops returning home and burning the poppy etc.

Am still baffled why it seems to be one rule for one and a different rule for others.

I cannot state how much this angers me.

Thoughts??

MooseVernel

uk.news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I am assuming that you are talking about Carlisle in the UK? I live in the states, and the only 'popular' Carlisle I know is in Pennsylvania.

Anywho, I agree with you. We are being too polite to the extremist people, while holding a stricter line of order for the common folk. It is happening here in the states, too. We are having problems with illegal immigration in the southwest. It is a bit different, but the same basic principal. Treat all equally according to what the law states. If a crime is committed, then you pay for it in turn. if no law broke, then you should be free to go.

Sadly, governments seem to be fearful of hurting the feelings of these Islamist extremists.

This just shows how the UK is now under Islamic control. If a "cleric" burned a flag or a Bible, they would allow him in with honors, but someone burns or threatens to burn the UK holy book, then they are arrested or denied entry.

reply to post by Seitler


Yes i am talking about the UK. And yes unfortunately those in positions of power do not want to upset other types of extremists but are quite happy to do it to people like this man. Plain and clear double standards but nobody else seems to care.

reply to post by moosevernel


To be honest, tho I do not agree with burning a book, flag or anything else designed to offend others all I see happening in the UK is the one rule being applied for one segment of society while not being applied to others.

And they (the Establishment) knows this causes deep dissent in the population, it always has and always will cause dissent when laws are applied unfairly.

To be honest I can only see the whole situation ending in trouble, which is what I feel the establishment actually want..

this makes me mad.... i remeber when some muslims burnt the union jack in the uk and as op said poppys but nothing was done... it seems one rule for them and another one for us. i think the pasture that got banned should be allwoed into the uk as we all have free speech and my grandad went to war for the uk to have freespeech but as far as i can see we dont have it...

this makes me mad.... i remeber when some muslims burnt the union jack in the uk and as op said poppys but nothing was done... it seems one rule for them and another one for us. i think the pasture that got banned should be allwoed into the uk as we all have free speech and my grandad went to war for the uk to have freespeech but as far as i can see we dont have it...

Law enforcement is often a selective practice that has to do with sheer numbers.

If one person is breaking a law it becomes much easier to arrest during that singular incident than if 2,000 people are breaking the law in one singular incident. 50 cops versus 2,000 offenders, you do the math.

Further it's about what laws are on the book, a Bible for instance may have some religious protections, where a poppy might not have national protections.

So it's all about what the law will allow for, and what kind of enforcement and or prosecution capability it has in a case by case basis. Logistics are still logistics.

Personally I don't think either should be arrested as long as they are not endagering the public or destroying property that they have not lawfull obtained and own them selves.

I do though believe people should be cognitive in their pursuit to exercise freedom of expression and speech, that if what you are expressing or how, saying or how, is deliberately inciteful, intentionally provocative, and or cruel, that you should have the burden of responsibility for that, if someone you do offend walks up and decides to pop you one in the nose.

That goes for both sides.

Unfortunately the politically inspired arguments on both sides of these black/white, left/right issues just end up encouraging the Nanny and Police State to grow, as more and more people feign outrage over a book or a flower and draw battle lines that are often all about disturbing the peace and inciting potential riots.

I know during the poppy buring incident, that even many Common Wealth Citizens are unaware of it's precise signifigance (World War I) specifically, that a lot of people were calling for violence and potentially trying to incite violence on a street level.

The politicians love that, it gives them just cause to legislate more laws, that ultimately are not going to favor anyone who feels a need, responsibility, or obligation to take matters into their own hands and make any kind of stand or overt act.

"Walk and talk softly, and carry a big stick" Sherrif Bufford Pusser

What was he charged with? Burning in public without a permit? Or was he put up on bunk charges for burning the Koran? I don't get it. Does the Authorities charge them with anything for burning the Bible?

Originally posted by Seitler


Anywho, I agree with you. We are being too polite to the extremist people, while holding a stricter line of order for the common folk.

The man burning the holy texts of a faith he knows nothing about is just as much of an extremist as the vest bombers on the other side of the argument. All extremism is a disease,and extreme right wing white is right BS merchants, and Islamic fundamentalists are the same in my eyes, because neither of them deserve to breathe my air, or use my resources if they cannot behave like they have brains in thier heads. Furthermore, here in the British Isles (including Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and England, just so we are clear on where Im talking about) we should hold ourselves to higher standards that we hold newcomers, and so we bloody well should. We should CERTAINLY hold ourselves to higher standards if we are to invade other nations on a pretext of removing fundamentalist hate preachers and terrorists from the region!

Sadly, governments seem to be fearful of hurting the feelings of these Islamist extremists.

The war on terror began because George Bush was angry about the 9/11 attacks and wanted something to gut, mutilate and work out his stress on. The 9/11 attacks took the lives of (which is pretty much the sum of casualties on American soil from the terror war) supposedly between 2,990 something, and close on 4,000 people. Im not trying to belittle the horror of that, but you have to accept that in comparison to the astronomical figures in the hundreds of thousands of Muslims who have died since in the war on terror , the bigger proportion of which never fired a single round,nor bombed a single road in defiance of the onslaught of the coallition forces on thier nations, I can definitely say that hurting the feelings of Islamic extremists is not a concern any more. If thier feelings were going to get hurt, then having huge swathes of them blown of the face of the Earth, or shot to ribbons from a helicopter, or rendered half way across the world and tortured for seven years would probably have done that. In comparison to all that crap, I doubt riding them rough when they speak hate against the west is actualy going to bother them all that much.
Another thing to remember, is that before this war on terror, the number of terrorists was LOWER than it is now ! You know why ?Because this crazy stupid pointless metaphysical phallus waving match of a war is gaining the terrorists more support from all over the globe every day ! And its no wonder really, since lets face it, the US prefers mauling a street full of people with a minigun than taking one man out with one round, and the UK is only there to do as its told , and avoid getting its nose stuck TOO far up the rear of the US command.
What I am saying is, you shouldnt complain when a British extremist, gets arrested for committing a crime, any more than you should complain when a Yemeni, Afghanistani or Iraqi hate preacher gets arrested (which they frequently do). If you complain about that, thats pretty much you saying that quite appart from anything else, you dont think that white folks can be extremist, and thats just plain silly. I know you are cleverer than that.

TB

reply to post by moosevernel


He should have made sure there was a safe circle for his brave deed...I wish I were there to watch it..

Fortress Europa is under siege, not long now.

reply to post by moosevernel


The reason it appears there are different rules
for the average U.K. citizen and the muslim citizen
is this, FEAR!
People are afraid of the radical muslims and everyone
bends over backwards in trying not to offend them!

reply to post by mamabeth


time to stop doing it then.. they live in the uk

reply to post by TrueBrit


But what was the crime? I don't know if this is considered inciting a riot or violence... but it is terrible that a man was arrested for burning a book. I don't agree that anyone should be arrested for that. I am not religious though. I personally feel that organized religion is just another reason for wars to be waged, and because of this I step back from the argument of illegal burning of a holy document. (is their such a law in the UK?)

All I am saying is simply that a man should not be arrested for burning a Quran, unless a different man is arrested for burning a Holy Bible. I don't care what religion either of them fall under. I am just tired of seeing everyone giving into the extremist sects the same way they to to North Korea. Its just frustrating, and I can honestly see it leading to more deaths in the streets of cities that have long held a certain air of civility. (That is honestly what I think of when I think of the Western European nations)

My view on it all is just so simple...it's this

If God wanted to protect his holy book, from being burned, he would.
If he/she wanted to smite someone for blasphemy, he/she would.
Let God govern religion, and let man rule their governments.

What happens when we have blasphemy laws like in Pakistan?
Will people be happy then?
They have not seemed too happy in Pakistan.
I understand it was Britain that started that law there, when it was a colony, to keep the Muslims happy then.

It's just a freak'n book. A stupid book full of contradictions and errors. So what if someone burns a book? Let 'em burn it. It means nothing and he should be able to do so if he wishes (as long as he bought and paid for the copy .. it's his to do with as he pleases).

Police have seized the remains of the book and a 32-year-old male has been arrested on suspicion of using racially aggravated threatening words or behaviour. The man remains in police custody where he is helping officers with their inquiries.

For those wondering what the charge was. (it was in the posted article)

If the legal wording truly is "racially aggravated" then I don't think they have a case as this was "religiously motivated".

My personal opinion is that freedom of speech and expression should have only one limitation, the direct threat of violence. If you want to destroy property that you rightfully own, that is your prerogative. If you want to call me a "bleepin' bleepity bleep" and that I should "bleepin' go to bleep and bleep" then you should have the right. As long as you do no harm to a person or property (that is not your own) I see no problem with it.

The prominent counter argument is "incitement to commit violence", well I submit that the actual violence is the crime not the words, though I do draw the line at direct threats of violence.

the Billmeister

reply to post by Seitler


Well the crime as defined by the constabulary that made the arrest, was racially aggravated use of threatening words or behaviour, and the burning of the book was considered to be merely part of the reason for his arrest , rather than being the sole one.
You see here its illegal to use threatening language or behaviour, and furthermore this offence in this instance is very close to incitement of racial hatred. It may be that Britain takes a more hardline approach with this stuff because of our war history. The second world war was a stark lesson for all the world , about what happens when you just allow people in your midst to become bigots and fascists. I think these laws under which people engaged in these sorts of behaviours are arrested, are a nod to the lessons learned about what is , and what is not acceptable behaviour, what are and are not acceptable and genuine political beliefs.
We know now that allowing persons to make scapegoats of an entire religion or race is not a good or decent thing to do, nor is it honest. In the case of the Muslim community in the UK , they take an awful lot of stick from the British National (read Nazi) Party, and the English Defence League , both of which are supposedly political groups who have small scale armies of thugs at thier disposal. Let me tell you, these groups are the worst that Britain has to offer. It is the existance and activities of groups like this, that is one of the key drivers of the radicalisation of young Muslim men in this country. Its not bad enough that Britain is at a dirty war with Muslim nations, or that we have co-operated with the frankly Orwellian rendering of British citizens to unknown locations, at which they are tortured, but, in thier own homes, on the very streets of thier home towns here in Britain, Muslims are villified, mocked, attacked,and marginalised.
All this adds up to a group of young , otherwise well adjusted young men, getting the idea that they might like to strike back against this oppression. And what organisations might allow them to achieve that? Well those would be the very organisations against which the wars are fought, those would be in fact, the very organisations that the British government is trying to keep out of our nation, and they ARE trying. The government however, are not going to get anywhere unless the general attitude of the people changes from the nationalist crap that leads to fascism and baseless hatred, to a more polite, and less judgemental attitude.