Chinese Nukes Aimed at US Cities

Strategically, I believe that China is just binding their time. They are a patient people and will wait until they know for sure they can take the U.S. - completely. Should we be concerned - yes, because there are many things happening with the US right now (and around us) that are not very favorable for the US.

I am concerned as to where are troops are located; both land and sea. There is so much going on around us that is highly unfavorable to the US that the window of opportunity for China may be just around the corner. I can totally see a strategic game going on right now.

I have always felt that there are higher people in the US or the interest of the US that have basically sold out on America. If they have, they will play the game of "what happened". And nobody will know until it is too late and there is nothing they could do. The game is not in our hands, but in those who think they can decide the fate of the world. These are the people that only cover truth and offer illusion; who USE Religion and try and destroy real Christianity; who only want power and view people only as pawns in their evil game.

Okay, I am not a loon, really. Just my opinion and thoughts on the China thing. China will walk in and just take us; they are just waiting for the right moment.

myabe they are, maybe they arent, theres no way to know, and as for the carrier siutaion, the missiles arent lanched from carriers, they r launched from subs i believe, which arent gunna be inrange of chinas mainland, the us navy isnt that stupid

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
myabe they are, maybe they arent, theres no way to know, and as for the carrier siutaion, the missiles arent lanched from carriers, they r launched from subs i believe, which arent gunna be inrange of chinas mainland, the us navy isnt that stupid

Nuke Submarines are best deterrence and retaliation method of nuke war. In conventional war, the firing power of submarines are quite limited when comparing with that of Carrier Fleets. If carriers are out of the picture, there is not much threat to PLA. By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
myabe they are, maybe they arent, theres no way to know, and as for the carrier siutaion, the missiles arent lanched from carriers, they r launched from subs i believe, which arent gunna be inrange of chinas mainland, the us navy isnt that stupid

What are you talking about?

The entire debate is about a part of China that's autonomous because it's on an island.

If the US Navy intervenes it's going to be close to China, duh.

Originally posted by goldenboy

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Blackout
Yes but if the US just let's China stomp all over Taiwan then it'll lose its reputation as some dorky "savior" or whatever it is that Bush thinks he is.

How much credibility current US administration still has? Nil for most countries.

In your signature, you claim that you don't want war. Then why are you instigating it? Taiwan is not a part of China. The only way that Taiwan and China could become one nation again is to follow the example of the former East and West Germanies. The Communist government must be eradicated, not only in China, but North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and any other Communist governments that exist. The whole concept of Marxism/Leninism must be purged from the hearts and minds of those who harbor it, one way or another. It doesn't matter to me. Then peace and prosperity will start to flourish, for the whole world. Yes, it's true that the United States is not perfect in all areas. But we're and damned sight way better off and more perfect than the rest of the world. That's including your country, Zcheng.
Over

Bull#. It's you who is instigating. If you want to defend Taiwan against China, then be prepared to fight China. The Chinese will not let Taiwan go. ever.

Me?!? Little ole humble me?!? I don't think so.

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by zcheng



By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Since when? In your dreams? Are you a comedian by any chance?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng
By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Since when? In your dreams? Are you a comedian by any chance?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

You sure think only US has a potent submarine forces. Do you know why 2 US carriers retreated hundreds of miles in 1996? Go find out. Otherwise, continue your usual daydreaming.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng
By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Since when? In your dreams? Are you a comedian by any chance?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

You sure think only US has a potent submarine forces. Do you know why 2 US carriers retreated hundreds of miles in 1996? Go find out. Otherwise, continue your usual daydreaming.

They didn't like the smell of cooking dog meat? Are you any kin to Gastric Cancer? Or are all of you Chinese hell bent on starting a war with the U.S.? We'll be sitting tight waiting for your first swing. When it happens, you'll regret it.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng
By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Since when? In your dreams? Are you a comedian by any chance?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

You sure think only US has a potent submarine forces. Do you know why 2 US carriers retreated hundreds of miles in 1996? Go find out. Otherwise, continue your usual daydreaming.

Whoa there Zcheng - you are talking about day dreams - is that what you had when you claimed the US was launching biological attacks on China with Sars?

Get a grip dude, the US has 50 LA Class SSNs, 3 Seawolf class SSNs and is going to get a bunch of the new Virginia class SSNs. On top of that how many super carriers do we have? Each carrying how many better planes then you have? How many carriers does your navy have? thats right Z-ImperialisticChinaWunnabeSuperpowerBrainwashedChiCom-Cheng, your navy SUCKS compared to the US Navy. Just like your airforce. Just like your Army, Just like your marines (if you even have them).

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by zcheng
By the way, China also has a potent submarine force.

Since when? In your dreams? Are you a comedian by any chance?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

You sure think only US has a potent submarine forces. Do you know why 2 US carriers retreated hundreds of miles in 1996? Go find out. Otherwise, continue your usual daydreaming.

Whoa there Zcheng - you are talking about day dreams - is that what you had when you claimed the US was launching biological attacks on China with Sars?

Get a grip dude, the US has 50 LA Class SSNs, 3 Seawolf class SSNs and is going to get a bunch of the new Virginia class SSNs. On top of that how many super carriers do we have? Each carrying how many better planes then you have? How many carriers does your navy have? thats right Z-ImperialisticChinaWunnabeSuperpowerBrainwashedChiCom-Cheng, your navy SUCKS compared to the US Navy. Just like your airforce. Just like your Army, Just like your marines (if you even have them).

That's good and all but guess what, carrier battle groups don't mean # when they are in range of huge arrays of land-based anti-ship missile volleys. The Straits of Formosa do not provide an all-naval engagement it means that our ships would have to be in range of the aircraft carrier / battleship known as mainland China.

The strength of an aircraft carrier relies on providing a protective screen above, below, and around the carrier with air superiority. To protect the strait you would have to be in range of Chinese land-based missiles. The US cannot boast an easy superiority in the area like it can the middle of say the Pacific Ocean.

Not that I believe war there is even remotely possible in the near future, but geography still provides a stronger defense than the most expensive naval equipment.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
That's good and all but guess what, carrier battle groups don't mean # when they are in range of huge arrays of land-based anti-ship missile volleys. The Straits of Formosa do not provide an all-naval engagement it means that our ships would have to be in range of the aircraft carrier / battleship known as mainland China.

The strength of an aircraft carrier relies on providing a protective screen above, below, and around the carrier with air superiority. To protect the strait you would have to be in range of Chinese land-based missiles. The US cannot boast an easy superiority in the area like it can the middle of say the Pacific Ocean.

Not that I believe war there is even remotely possible in the near future, but geography still provides a stronger defense than the most expensive naval equipment.

Land based missles won't do much good when they are getting hit by high precision weapons in the first 24 hours of war. They would be dealt with via cruise missles or B-2 raids. Once the majority of these systems are down, tehn carriers move in. And ohhh yeah - part of the ability to project power is the fact that our planes have extended range due to inflight refueling. Thus, we can attain air superiority in advance of our carriers and then bring them in.

EDIT: BTW, I noticed where you are from - I grew up in Haverford

[edit on 3-9-2004 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by taibunsuu
That's good and all but guess what, carrier battle groups don't mean # when they are in range of huge arrays of land-based anti-ship missile volleys. The Straits of Formosa do not provide an all-naval engagement it means that our ships would have to be in range of the aircraft carrier / battleship known as mainland China.

The strength of an aircraft carrier relies on providing a protective screen above, below, and around the carrier with air superiority. To protect the strait you would have to be in range of Chinese land-based missiles. The US cannot boast an easy superiority in the area like it can the middle of say the Pacific Ocean.

Not that I believe war there is even remotely possible in the near future, but geography still provides a stronger defense than the most expensive naval equipment.

Land based missles won't do much good when they are getting hit by high precision weapons in the first 24 hours of war. They would be dealt with via cruise missles or B-2 raids. Once the majority of these systems are down, tehn carriers move in. And ohhh yeah - part of the ability to project power is the fact that our planes have extended range due to inflight refueling. Thus, we can attain air superiority in advance of our carriers and then bring them in.

EDIT: BTW, I noticed where you are from - I grew up in Haverford

[edit on 3-9-2004 by American Mad Man]

A far wiser strategy to actually provide Taiwan with military assistance in the event of an invasion would be to stay completely out of the Straits and reinforce the island itself. I'm sure PacCom has all the war scenarios planned out.

I think the problem with the scenario we're talking about is that it's completely blue sky. Yeah, sure, I mean anything's possible with proper planning and logistics, 10 carrier battle groups and unlimited resources and all that and no one's disputing superiority of US military and Navy but we really can't have a good discussion about what could go down there without using a wargame scenario.

China does not plan on acquiring Carriers because she sees they are outdated. Instead, China has been building up its anti-ship attack capability. If USA and China ever fought, you can bet that China will sink all of USA's carriers by sending hundreds of anti-ship missiles.

Carriers are antiquated.

China also has a strong submarine force.

Originally posted by goldenboy
Carriers are antiquated.

'Tis be so untrue. Carriers are an efficient means in delivering attack and fighter aircraft to any part of the world if and when needed.

China also has a strong submarine force.

Upon who's standards is this based? American subs can sneak up on their subs, bump then in the rear and everyone on board would die of a heart attack from the shear surprise and fear. Not one torpedoe will be fired. Americans are champions when it comes to playing cat and mouse at sea.






[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by goldenboy
Carriers are antiquated.

'Tis be so untrue. Carriers are an efficient means in delivering attack and fighter aircraft to any part of the world if and when needed.

China also has a strong submarine force.

Upon who's standards is this based? American subs can sneak up on their subs, bump then in the rear and everyone on board would die of a heart attack from the shear surprise and fear. Not one torpedoe will be fired. Americans are champions when it comes to playing cat and mouse at sea.






[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]

When you have Anti-Ship missiles that can be launched at supersonic speeds hundred of miles away, ships like carriers are sitting ducks. Therefore, they are antiquated.


Just last year, a Chinese submarine sneaked upon US/Japan military exercise near Japan's coast which were doing anti-Sub exercises. The submarine, a Ming class, spooked Japan and the US. The Chinese did this to signal how far they have come in Submarine technology. And this Han class isn't even their best class.

I think you underestimate Chinese submarines. The US recently were caught surprised by a new class of conventional diesel submarines they named the "Yuan" class. Who knows how good chinese subs are. Considering that the Chinese are prioritizing subs over conventional ships, and carriers, I think you'd have to expect they are pretty good.






[edit on 5-9-2004 by goldenboy]

Originally posted by taibunsuu
I think the problem with the scenario we're talking about is that it's completely blue sky. Yeah, sure, I mean anything's possible with proper planning and logistics, 10 carrier battle groups and unlimited resources and all that and no one's disputing superiority of US military and Navy but we really can't have a good discussion about what could go down there without using a wargame scenario.

Agreed

Originally posted by goldenboy
When you have Anti-Ship missiles that can be launched at supersonic speeds hundred of miles away, ships like carriers are sitting ducks. Therefore, they are antiquated.

No, because if they are hundreds of miles away, then there is plenty of time to neutralize the missle. This is exactly what the F-14 (via pheonix missle system) and AEGIS cruisers are ment for.

Just last year, a Chinese submarine sneaked upon US/Japan military exercise near Japan's coast which were doing anti-Sub exercises. The submarine, a han class, spooked Japan and the US. The Chinese did this to signal how far they have come in Submarine technology. And this Han class isn't even their best class.

Can I see a link please? I have not heard of this. Anyways, do you really think that if there were raised tensions they would be able to get this close? I think not.

I think you underestimate Chinese submarines. The US recently were caught surprised by a new class of conventional diesel submarines they named the "Yuan" class. Who knows how good chinese subs are. Considering that the Chinese are prioritizing subs over conventional ships, and carriers, I think you'd have to expect they are pretty good.

Except that China is a lot behind the US in developement of subs. Hell, China is behind not only the US, but the UK and Russia. Do you honestly believe that they can come close to the capability of the improved LA class submarine, much less the best submarine in the world - the SeaWolf - or the upcoming Virginia class attack submarines? China's subs may be very good in the grand scheme of things, cracking top 5 subs in the world even, but compared to US subs they are, as you put it, antiquated.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by goldenboy
Just last year, a Chinese submarine sneaked upon US/Japan military exercise near Japan's coast which were doing anti-Sub exercises. The submarine, a han class, spooked Japan and the US. The Chinese did this to signal how far they have come in Submarine technology. And this Han class isn't even their best class.

Can I see a link please? I have not heard of this. Anyways, do you really think that if there were raised tensions they would be able to get this close? I think not.

It is widely known, please deny ignorance by spending sometime researching.

Anyone who believes that carriers are obsolete knows nothing about warfare. If the last nearly 60 years of warfare has proven anything; it has proven the worth of the carrier. The biggest reason which establishes its value, America would never be a world power without it. China will never be a world power without. Airpower is king, the idea that you, the US, can have up to 1100 strike aircraft at a enemies door step. Aircraft that can drop several millions pounds of ordinace per 24 hours of operation is astounding. I need to remind you gentlemen that no American Carrier has been sunk in modern naval history, Post-WII. In fact, no American plane has been shot down in air to air combat since the Vietnam War. I know that was estraneous, but I thought I would throw it in for good measure. The fact remains that the Chinese have a lot to prove as far operational capablities are concern. In warfare, its is put- up or shut-up, and the piper always gets paid for the dance.

I found these: a little bit of reading, but all good:

www.nwc.navy.mil...
www.sinodefence.com...
www.chinfo.navy.mil...

Our submarines,zcheng, not only look better, they are better by a long shot.
Did I hear mention of a diesal powered sub of the Chinese?
What's that?

[edit on 3/9/04 by Intelearthling]