Jewish Orthodox publication openly calls for death camps

reply to post by dontreally


It is precisely because of my wellbeing that I opt to end the hostilities.

And it is precisely because of the Nazis and their way of thinking that I choose to value each individual by their actions and thoughts rather than by their stereotype.

reply to post by Eliad


What are you talking about stereostype.

please identify for me this "stereotype"..

Is it a stereotype that Islam forbids Jews living in Muslim lands?
Is it a stereotype that the Hamas And PLO leadership routinely says they dont intend for there to be peace until Jews are gone?

Im looking out FOR YOU and your liberal fanaticism is causing you to ignore the facts of your situation.

Muslims dont want to Jews living in Israel.

Now this is the premise. How can you honestly counter this fact? Are palestinians pro-democracy or pro-sharia law and Islamism... Is the middleeast even a little liberal, or tolerant of western interests? They regard YOU- Israel, as the little satan. the big satan is america. Why would Palestinians at all conform to western standards when the PA is vociferously religious, and Palestinian society, thoroughly antisemitic.

have you been by Palestinemediawatch.org?

Have you seenwhat these suppose friends and partners think of you?

How can you as an israeli ignore this! Its your life. Its your head.

This is especially messed up when one considers that there are probably many, many citizens of that country who were either survivors of the Holocaust or who grew up with relatives who still bore the mark of the camps. That this group would even think of such things when they almost certainly have full knowledge of the ramifications of what they're advocating blows my mind.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

 

Do not think for a second that Islam is somehow irrelevant in the picture. When Palestinian media and schools teach their children that killing oneself for Allah is good (as long as Jews are killed) than it is very religious.

It would appear that you have never heard of Palestinian Christians! I have heard that the proportion of them has dropped from 70% of Palestinians to about 20% but they still exist.
If you believe that all Palestinians are Muslim, you're wrong - the issue is about, as has been stated, colonialism.
Vicky

reply to post by Vicky32



Thanks for mentioning palestinian christians.

Theyre better off living in Israel

Prominent Christians in the Middle East have expressed alarm at the impact intense persecution is having on Christians in Palestine, as many continue to abandon their faith and leave their homelands.

www.christiantoday.com...

Christians dont seem to be safe in ANY muslim Country - whether that be Egypt, Sudan, libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria etc.

They crack the whip of Islamic imperialism on them.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Thanks for mentioning palestinian christians.

Theyre better off living in Israel

Prominent Christians in the Middle East have expressed alarm at the impact intense persecution is having on Christians in Palestine, as many continue to abandon their faith and leave their homelands.

www.christiantoday.com...

Christians dont seem to be safe in ANY muslim Country - whether that be Egypt, Sudan, libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria etc.

They crack the whip of Islamic imperialism on them.

I can match your articles with one from Ha'aretz, about just how friendly Israel is to Christians! (In case you have any doubt, the answer is not very.)
I am not talking about a bus-load of elderly Bible school ourists from Alabammy or Floriduh who only ever leave their air-conditioned hotel with a tour guide, but Christians who live there.
Ha'aretz article
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Thanks for mentioning palestinian christians.

Theyre better off living in Israel

Prominent Christians in the Middle East have expressed alarm at the impact intense persecution is having on Christians in Palestine, as many continue to abandon their faith and leave their homelands.

www.christiantoday.com...

Christians dont seem to be safe in ANY muslim Country - whether that be Egypt, Sudan, libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria etc.

They crack the whip of Islamic imperialism on them.

I can match your articles with one from Ha'aretz, about just how friendly Israel is to Christians! (In case you have any doubt, the answer is not very.)
I am not talking about a bus-load of elderly Bible school ourists from Alabammy or Floriduh who only ever leave their air-conditioned hotel with a tour guide, but Christians who live there.
Ha'aretz article
Vicky

LOL....Youre comparing be spit on to be killed? A christan spat on in Jerusalem, is quite better off than facing forced conversion, interminable abuse or possible death in ramallah.

Your comnparison is outrageous. You couldnt be any more obvious in your biased disgust for Israel.

A true christian who cared about his comrads would be worried about their plight in palestine, which is very serious, or about their perscution in neighbor Egypt. Instead your posting articles of people being spat on, which in any case is harshly criticized in the Israeli left media. The conditions in the former are much more serious, egrigious and dangerous for them then being insulted, in Israel.

Granted. Israel has problems, but come on. Spit is preferable to death.

Originally posted by dontreally

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Thanks for mentioning palestinian christians.

Theyre better off living in Israel

Prominent Christians in the Middle East have expressed alarm at the impact intense persecution is having on Christians in Palestine, as many continue to abandon their faith and leave their homelands.

www.christiantoday.com...

Christians dont seem to be safe in ANY muslim Country - whether that be Egypt, Sudan, libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria etc.

They crack the whip of Islamic imperialism on them.

I can match your articles with one from Ha'aretz, about just how friendly Israel is to Christians! (In case you have any doubt, the answer is not very.)
I am not talking about a bus-load of elderly Bible school ourists from Alabammy or Floriduh who only ever leave their air-conditioned hotel with a tour guide, but Christians who live there.
Ha'aretz article
Vicky

LOL....Youre comparing be spit on to be killed? A christan spat on in Jerusalem, is quite better off than facing forced conversion, interminable abuse or possible death in ramallah.

Your comnparison is outrageous. You couldnt be any more obvious in your biased disgust for Israel.

A true christian who cared about his comrads would be worried about their plight in palestine, which is very serious, or about their perscution in neighbor Egypt. Instead your posting articles of people being spat on, which in any case is harshly criticized in the Israeli left media. The conditions in the former are much more serious, egrigious and dangerous for them then being insulted, in Israel.

Granted. Israel has problems, but come on. Spit is preferable to death.

I could have found more if I had time, and I am going right after this post! Tomorrow I shall find more.. but I will just say for the time being, that you're talking #e! To start with, don't use 'generic he' when referring to me, I take it as an insult.
I have articles (printed years ago, so I haven't got links) about Christians being killed in Israel, yes, killed - and once again, I am referring to Christians who live there, not tourists, and of course evangelical American tourists are encouraged for political reasons.
Hilarious! Google in NZ defaults to American sources - I tried googling for the site on which I found the articles I had found in 2002, and what do you think I found? Page after American page about Jews killed by Christians!
That's not what I asked it. But it's all google will give me. Hey, I wonder why? Well the up-shot is, I can not find anything - so tomorrow, I will dig out my printed articles and find the URLs...
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by dontreally

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by Vicky32

 

Thanks for mentioning palestinian christians.

Theyre better off living in Israel

Prominent Christians in the Middle East have expressed alarm at the impact intense persecution is having on Christians in Palestine, as many continue to abandon their faith and leave their homelands.

www.christiantoday.com...

Christians dont seem to be safe in ANY muslim Country - whether that be Egypt, Sudan, libya, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Syria etc.

They crack the whip of Islamic imperialism on them.

I can match your articles with one from Ha'aretz, about just how friendly Israel is to Christians! (In case you have any doubt, the answer is not very.)
I am not talking about a bus-load of elderly Bible school ourists from Alabammy or Floriduh who only ever leave their air-conditioned hotel with a tour guide, but Christians who live there.
Ha'aretz article
Vicky

LOL....Youre comparing be spit on to be killed? A christan spat on in Jerusalem, is quite better off than facing forced conversion, interminable abuse or possible death in ramallah.

Your comnparison is outrageous. You couldnt be any more obvious in your biased disgust for Israel.

A true christian who cared about his comrads would be worried about their plight in palestine, which is very serious, or about their perscution in neighbor Egypt. Instead your posting articles of people being spat on, which in any case is harshly criticized in the Israeli left media. The conditions in the former are much more serious, egrigious and dangerous for them then being insulted, in Israel.

Granted. Israel has problems, but come on. Spit is preferable to death.

I could have found more if I had time, and I am going right after this post! Tomorrow I shall find more.. but I will just say for the time being, that you're talking #e! To start with, don't use 'generic he' when referring to me, I take it as an insult.
I have articles (printed years ago, so I haven't got links) about Christians being killed in Israel, yes, killed - and once again, I am referring to Christians who live there, not tourists, and of course evangelical American tourists are encouraged for political reasons.
Hilarious! Google in NZ defaults to American sources - I tried googling for the site on which I found the articles I had found in 2002, and what do you think I found? Page after American page about Jews killed by Christians!
That's not what I asked it. But it's all google will give me. Hey, I wonder why? Well the up-shot is, I can not find anything - so tomorrow, I will dig out my printed articles and find the URLs...
Vicky

I dug out the old pages I had and the site is
Site about Christians in Israel/Palestine
I want you to actually read the site and the link, because I am afraid that people who think they already know something are not interested in learning anything else.
Origin of Palestinian Christians

In fact, DontReally, I have found an embarassment of riches! I am now putting links for you and for anyone else who desires to read something about the true relations between indigenous Christians and Muslims and Jews in Israel/Palestine...
First al-bushra link
Open letter to the Israelis and Friends of Israel

That will be enough to be going on with for now..
Vicky

reply to post by dontreally


What stereotypes?

These militant people wont be satisifed until Jews leave their moslem land.

Remember that little pearl?

Egypt's Muslim, we've got peace, Jordan's Muslim, we've got peace, doesn't it all come down to politics?
In the end the PA is going to have to come to a peace agreement, and after that it's going to be expected of them that they start building a state in their borders.

They can stall as long as they want, we can stall as long as we want, eventually we'll be forced out of the West Bank by the world, and they'd be forced to start making something of themselves.

Look, I'm not left, I'm not right, no one in my family is into politics, I just grew up with the idea that everyone's equal, and discovered that it's true.

I've discovered that what the people think usually means jack #, and that leaders are the ones that drive events, usually for their own agenda.

I've discovered that people usually think what they're told to think by the media/leaders.

I'm thinking for myself. I've met a lot of Arabs, and I've made friends with a lot of Arabs, and they're not such a bad bunch of people. Sure there's always a few bad apples in the bunch, sometimes more than a few, but it's like that in Israeli society as well, it evens out.

reply to post by Vicky32


First of all the Palestinian Christians joined forces with the Jews in driving out the Muslim Palestinians (or at least did not interfere) and joined the state of Israel when it was established.

Second I can see how anyone would be disgusted by Orthodox Jews spitting at Christians, problem is they spit at anyone they don't like, including other Jews.
And I really don't see how this compares to what happens in Muslim states.

Third the article is wrong, these people aren't the descendents of ancient Christians, but rather converts who were converted during crusades.

Lastly what is your point? To prove that Christians aren't better off living in Israel? To show that Israel is hurting Christians because they are Christians? To show that Jews hurt Christians as part of the Jewish religion?

reply to post by Eliad


Okay, Palestinians get their own country in the west bank, free of Israelis. A CONDITION MADE BY pa.

THEN WHAT ? What about the Israeli “Palestinians citizens” ? Do they leave now to their independent free state and keep Israel free of Arabs? No ? Why not? Why is it accepted the other way around?
By the current Israeli Arab birth rate, there won't be any Israel left. Demographics will take care of that.
How many countries do they need anyway? Jordan is 70% populated by Palestinians. Next they will get an independent west bank, they already have Gaza strip.
Can't you this is exactly according to their stage doctrine? Their plan is working perfectly. Remember, this has nothing to do with Palestine. It's all about Pan-Arabism.

You should read this next article Eliad:
new.ba-bamail.co.il...

and for those who speak German:

www.cicero.de...

Originally posted by Eliad
.

Third the article is wrong, these people aren't the descendents of ancient Christians, but rather converts who were converted during crusades.

Lastly what is your point? To prove that Christians aren't better off living in Israel? To show that Israel is hurting Christians because they are Christians? To show that Jews hurt Christians as part of the Jewish religion?

My initial point was to show someone that there are in fact Palestinian Christians, as he seemed not to know that. Then secondly to show him that Christians are not necessarily better off in Israel!
I know that Jews hurt Christians as part of their religion, , it's a fact, and the people on the site would disagree vehemently with your assertion that " these people aren't the descendents of ancient Christians, but rather converts who were converted during crusades."
So yeah, you've pretty much got my intentions right!
Vicky

reply to post by gravitational


Part of the motivation for peace are land swaps that would put Arab lands in Palestinian territory in exchange for keeping Jewish settlements in Israeli territory.

Look, these people in the West Bank, they're not Jordanian, and they never will be, it's political reality, it's never going to happen, so the question isn't how much land do they need, but how much land do we need?

If we had received the West Bank legally I would have had no issue with keeping it, but we didn't, no one agreed that we keep it, we need defensible borders, and at the moment they're about as defensible as they'll ever get, even if we give it back.

reply to post by Vicky32


Well you didn't show that they're not better off in Israel, you presented one incident, or one example of bigotry within Israeli society, by an Orthodox Jew towards a Greek Orthodox. Can you really base your entire conclusion on just that?

I feel that this isn't about whether or not Christians are better off in Israel than in Arab lands, but rather that saying that they are better off would imply "Israel good, Muslims bad", and that's your actual beef with the whole argument.

As for Jews hurting Christians as part of their religion- Aside from the fact that I'm amazed by the sheer bigotry and hypocrisy of that statement (you're the one preaching against generalizations of the Muslim religion, right?), I wonder what would have led you to these conclusions, is it the vast amounts of gangs of Jews beating up Christians for no reason all over the world (I am, of course, being cynical here, there is no such thing), or is it people in these forums running around saying how the Jews "think gentiles are inferior" and other bullcrap of that sort? I.e. are your conclusions based on actual facts and incidents, or simply the anti Jewish propaganda, similar to that of people saying Islam is a religion of hate and bringing so called "proof"?

"the people on the site" (whatever that might mean), might disagree, question is can you? If you study the subject in a library, or in Wikipedia, and not in a website with a bias, a narrative and not even one reference to the sources of that information you might end up wiser than all of us.

If you choose, instead, to just take the word of whoever fits your agenda, you might end up forming someone else's opinion.

reply to post by Vicky32

It would appear that you have never heard of Palestinian Christians! I have heard that the proportion of them has dropped from 70% of Palestinians to about 20% but they still exist.

Very well put Vicky. The zionists have spent a great deal of effort and resources in demonising Arabs and Muslims in the West. I also remember the appalling movies of the 1980s with Arabs made to look like ridiculas apes dressed in funny cloths in . With the "War on Terror" now the response from from Christian fundementalist and zionist Jews have been appalling. All you have to do is google the internet and you will find hundreds of websites run by the likes of the zionist Jew, Pam Geller, misrepresenting and mocking all the millions and millions of Muslims in the world. There was even an Israeli government sponsored Jewish group in America that published over 10 million videos on Islam as they see it and distributed as newspaper inserts in the MidWest of the US.

So in the context of the above you can understand why zionist Jews want to translate their colonial adventure into a war of religions. The treatment they have actually mete to the Christian and Muslim Palestinian did not differetiate between the two and the cruelty has always been unrelenting. It is only the Christians in the West that have shown pity to Palestinian Christians and offered them sanctuary in the West. The numbers of Palestinian Christians have been reduced by a deliberate policy to extract them to the West by Western governments.

Zionist Jews simply wish to exploit the historical baggage that exists between the Christian West and the Islamic East. It was the neocons, mainly consisting of Jews, who pushed the idea of a Crusade. It is also always worth remembering that it was the Muslim world that gave sanctuary Jews from the Crusaders only today the zionist Jew ungratefully perverts the memory of several hundred years of protection offered to them by Arabs and Muslims.

When a time comes to settle scores, and America really wants to know what happened on 9/11, there be no sanctuary offered to the zionist Jew.

reply to post by Eliad


Defensible borders are not and can not be the armistice lines.
The UN acknowledges that in the 242 resolution.
Anyone that ever saw Israel's only international airport from the mountains east of it, will come to the same conclusion.
It doesn't take a military expert to realize it.

reply to post by Vicky32

Then secondly to show him that Christians are not necessarily better off in Israel!

No it's not part of their religion. Don't confuse ultra orthodox idiots with the entire religion you know nothing about.
The moment you will honestly address how Christians are being treated in Muslim countries, maybe then we can start taking you seriously.
Trashing Israel and Jews constantly, without seeing the big picture, is stupidity at best, or bigotry at worst.