Radical Islam - The Biggest Threat to your Freedoms

And ill finish my posting for tonight:

Watch and listen carefully to this video, is this a speech of a nazi? You decide

reply to post by Haydn_17


When the edl first started doing protests they were hijacked by nazi groups since the leaders burnt the nazi flag there are less nazis BUT it's impossible to organise an english patriotic march where anyone can join without attracting racists. That being said Yes there is nazis in the edl but there are also sikhs, homosexuals, pakistanis and jews. I don't think catbinlady knows why the edl were formed wasn't it because of muslims shouting abuse at soldiers funerals and the pope in the uk. Yes it was so what do you expect

They did a small march in oldham on september 11, the uaf and mdl groups had no idea they were doing it so none of them turned up to fight them. No trouble occured at all.

The uaf and mdl have already made it public on there facebooks that they will be kicking off with the Edl at the upcoming luton march. since luton is full of wannabe jihadists there will be a lot of violence that day.

If they banned all groups demonstrating on the same day there would be no trouble

Just a few videos from the radical muslim group MAC.( Muslims against crusaders) They also used to be called Islam4UK but were banned they just come back with a new name. The muslims who planned to set bombs off in london at christmas were part of mac. They were the reason the EDL were formed.


Protesting against the pope imagine if the same was done against the king of saudia arabia on his visit to england. no one was arrested at this event.





The Police protecting them



Here's MAC demanding Sharia law for everyone in the uk. notice the UAF joining them.

Faith is a good thing, it guides and helps, in times of trouble, can be of comfort, giving hope when there is no hope. However, faith taken to the extreme is fanaticism. The op and the different posters have put forth for and against about how radical Islam is a danger to all, but it can be stated that this is correct and incorrect. It is not just one extremist in one religion that is a danger to out freedom and safety, but extremist in all religions that is a threat. Extremists, using religion to justify their actions, will often take a stance on any topic or group, feeling justified in their actions, showing that they are fanatics. Christianity has a number of extremist, that will give them a bad name, often targeting one idea or group that they find distasteful, so it is not just those who follow Islam. That is where the op is incorrect about just singling out the extremist Islamic followers. However, what many people see, and where the danger lies in those who follow Islam and are extremist, is that they often keep themselves separate from the rest of the western world, even when they live in a non Islamic country, and what is seen more than anything, are the threats that come out, when something or an idea is perceived as an insult.
Extremist in any form is a threat, as they will go to extremes to get their way and should be discouraged as well as shunned by the whole, rather than just the part. It gives what ever group or belief a bad name, failing to take into account that their actions, reflect on the whole fully and completely.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


Yep, like i said in earlier posts, it wil get a lot worse for muslims before it gets any better. (Some of you will be rejoicing now lol)

21st century doesnt mean anything, just because technology has advanced, science has advanced does not mean laws, and philosophy and thinking. New laws are being implemented every day, they are failing the day after. It doesnt matter what century you live, mankinds stupidy is infinite. That is why we believe in the laws of the Quran ad God, they are timeless and free from the errors of man.
Look at society around you, the children these days, the indoctrination they are going through, society is being RADICALLY dumbed down. ALL the great thinkers of the past believed in the supernatural, be it the elite TPTB who believe in luciferic forces, the occult, to the religious people in God etc.
Doesnt it ever come to question, why all these thinkers, who are no doubt much smarter than you or i, why thy believed in such things?

Some food for the thought..

Peace and salaams

reply to post by nastyj


Worse for muslims - it might have escaped your notice but it is muslims that have been harrassing, terrorising and persecuting everybody else ever since they got going!

As forTPTB - who the hell do you think invented Islam in the first place - all the Judeo-Christian religions were invented by them as a means of controlling the human populations, it gives them absolute control and authority and endless legions of dupes to do their bidding - they have literaly made themselves 'gods on earth'!

Western populations have largely thrown off the shackles of TPTB manufactured religion - which is why they have moved onto communism/socialism, PC multicultual, eco-activism etc and their whole NWO scheme.

Islam at the moment is an embarrassment for them - but nethertheless still a convenient tool to use for collapsing Western society - that is why they have let you all into the West, because it leads inevitablty to a Euro-wide jihadi civil war (in which it is intended that you will all be killed off).

Israel was recreated and armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons for the same reason!

Islam was designed as a complete brainwashing system to enslave the human mind forever - notice there is no element of choice about it - no questioning, no criticism,just blind submissionand obedience - backed up by death for those who disobey - which is why muslims cannot tolerate the slightest criticism - because Islam owns them, they have no identity other than as slaves to Islam,mind body and soul.

reply to post by RisingForce


That is a point constantly ignored by the PC Brigade and the apologists.

When EDL have applied for permission to counter protest UAF marches and demonstrations the local police have denied them permission.
Subsequently EDL have obeyed the law and not protested allowing the UAF marches to pass peacefully.

When UAF have applied for permission to counter protest EDL marches and demonstrations the local police have denied them permission.
However, UAF have subsequently shown complete disregard and contempt for the law and proceeded to illegally counter protest.
They have been joined by professional rent-a-mob protesters from Class War, SWP etc and have deliberately defied police requests and taunted, provoked and instigated violent confrontation with EDL safe in the knowledge that regardless of facts and the truth MSM would portray EDL as the aggressors.

I certainly don't deny that there are also elements within EDL that relish these confrontations, but the point is if UAF obeyed the law and choose not to illegally counter protest then EDL marches would pass off peacefully.

Originally posted by nastyj


Hey i think you are going hyperbole on this one, you cant be saying sharia law gives religion the authority to kill for touching the holy book with the left hand? killed for daring to say Allah in a wrongful way? Killed for thinking its not working? Where are you basing your understanding from? I have never heard of this before, can you please link me sources or something?

Sorry, the left hand was wrong but here similar links

www.eutimes.net...

www.nytimes.com...

I'm not sure if it mentions she is a Christian in that report.

Surely you will agree that these reactions are well beyond reasonable, simply mistake and possibly attacks purely based upon being Christian which at the moment is in Pakistan a serious issue. Crimes against Christians for simply being Christian are at an all time high. Sorry but the use of Sharia to do these things is wrong. I understand people have rules and when in Rome etc etc (sadly not used when in UK) but to go to the extreme of assassinating a politician because he wanted to soften the blasphemy laws is a law / belief in faith gone crazy.

As long as people see constant reports from valid sources then the perception of Sharia will never be anything other than a law system that creates its own laws, gives no logical allowance of a defence and most sad, a law that both derides woman and wants blood at any excuse.

That's a law I would NOT want here in any form even if it was only applicable to Muslim people as I know the hard liners who follow it would use it to abuse but as made clear by those wishing to bring it here, they want to replace our laws with this as they see us as un holy.

That aside, the thing about the judgements re my in laws was that the reason you do not hear much if any repulsion of what the radicals want from ordinary Muslims is that they are told that they must not judge a fellow Muslim as only Allah can judge anyone. For me that's a bit of a get out, under the Quran you are entitled to ask question and to decide what is wrong but in this case must keep quiet about it as they will be judged when its their time.

For me that is simply wrong, people have the power to stop what they know is wrong rather than turn a blind eye, for the public perception of Muslims to improve they simply have to voice their feelings about what the radicals are doing and how it's NOT part of the religion as its to be practised.

By not doing it it reinforces the wrong notion that Muslim = terrorist

I'm sorry but I do not feel any bit threatened by radical islam... they have their ways, we have ours. I'm not even a christian...

Radical christians on the other hand are much more of a threat since they're a lot closer to me than the "radical islam".

Buts thats ok, we all have to give a face to our fears, and now its islam... pretty much like 800 years ago. Boy did we evolve!

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I'm sorry but I do not feel any bit threatened by radical islam... they have their ways, we have ours. I'm not even a christian...

Radical christians on the other hand are much more of a threat since they're a lot closer to me than the "radical islam".

Buts thats ok, we all have to give a face to our fears, and now its islam... pretty much like 800 years ago. Boy did we evolve!

I'm glad you don't feel threatened and I hope you get an easy ride when it comes.

You really should be frightened, I am, not for me but for my daughter who's 10, a young girl in a radical world, think about it, I do and it's not pleasant thinking.

I almost hate myself nowadays for bringing this poor child into the world, I love her to bits but what will she face in her lifetime.

There is a global effort to Islamicise the world, now all religions would love to spread the word and claim the top spot but where the radicals are concerned its not about asking if you want to be a Muslim, it's not a choice, you simply MUST convert of face anything from attacks to death. The same individuals also want to replace our culture with theirs, this isn't my views, these are words spoken by them many times publicly.

So, as I say I am glad you feel safe, but in truth you should be very worried.

Regarding the EDL and BNP, I understand some of the ideals of the EDL but sadly in both parties they are run riot by thugs, it's no secret the EDL came into being as football hooligans and a great many of their members are still in that league.

Far to many are simply in it 'for the ruck', issues like this have to be solved at numerous levels, it simply cannot be about force although force may well come into it. As for the BNP, in this day and age they still have far to many members who still follow the 'white is right / might' line, I've spoken to many people over my years of different work and all the BNP folk instantly start the 'see that paki' type stuff, sorry but that's simply the truth.

There was a program about the people who support the BNP, people that campaign for them, do admin etc and despite claims by Nick Griffin that he see's Britain as all colours and creeds the core that do the support could not come across as more racist if they tried.

IF they were a party for looking after British people and keeping our ideals then I would be happy to listen to them but while a large portion oft heir core wish to send people like my in laws back to what was / is? a British colony I have no wish to know, while the core still plays the race card its simply wrong.

The EDL is a different issue, it actually is multi cultural and I'm appalled that their wish to protest constantly gets banned, they are entitled to show their protest, its what we Brits do, Hyde Park corner being our history.

Sadly the EDL suffer from the thug image and have far too many hangers on that are indeed racial out there looking for a fight.

It still shocks me that people are still referring to people under the blanket of Muslim or to some degree Islam, for those ordinary Muslims that simply follow the religion as a religion of peace then to be honest you would probably not know who they were bar dress codes, daily you guys walk past Muslim people and you have no idea that they are Muslim at all, you simply have to look at this by exactness, not Muslim, but radical islamists.

They are two different people, its like saying all Masons have the potential to hang people under bridges, simple nonsense.

I can say I have seen the different faces of belief in the Muslim religion, my ex brother in law is an Algerian who married into this country and no sooner had he done that he broke up the family home and moved away bringing a wife into the country. When I spoke to him he was quite open about what he wanted to see, he wanted Sharia, he wanted to milk the country and he was happy to say how much he hated us. He was one of those that cheered the attacks on Britain and showed his despise of us all.

Sadly he's still in the UK............................

On the other hand I've seen my in laws and all my extended family, all these people want is a peaceful life mixing happily here in the UK, in Canada and the US, there's nothing extreme about them and they love their nationality, they ARE BRITs, Canadians and US citizens and follow the way of life yet still practice their religion.

So please try and pinpoint you targets and not just use Muslim, I'm no apologist for anyone, I am simply trying to pin point the issue. I have nothing but repulsion for the radicals but its no use pointing the finger at every one.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by nastyj

 

Worse for muslims - it might have escaped your notice but it is muslims that have been harrassing, terrorising and persecuting everybody else ever since they got going!

As forTPTB - who the hell do you think invented Islam in the first place - all the Judeo-Christian religions were invented by them as a means of controlling the human populations, it gives them absolute control and authority and endless legions of dupes to do their bidding - they have literaly made themselves 'gods on earth'!

Western populations have largely thrown off the shackles of TPTB manufactured religion - which is why they have moved onto communism/socialism, PC multicultual, eco-activism etc and their whole NWO scheme.

Islam at the moment is an embarrassment for them - but nethertheless still a convenient tool to use for collapsing Western society - that is why they have let you all into the West, because it leads inevitablty to a Euro-wide jihadi civil war (in which it is intended that you will all be killed off).

Israel was recreated and armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons for the same reason!

Islam was designed as a complete brainwashing system to enslave the human mind forever - notice there is no element of choice about it - no questioning, no criticism,just blind submissionand obedience - backed up by death for those who disobey - which is why muslims cannot tolerate the slightest criticism - because Islam owns them, they have no identity other than as slaves to Islam,mind body and soul.

Ive heard theories about TPTB inventing religion to control the masses etc, but i dont agree with you there, what really happened is a lot more deeper and complicated.

In history you will see as fact that the monotheistic religions of the time were ALWAYS persecuted by TPTB, Moses< Pharaoh, Jesus< Romans, Mohammad

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

Originally posted by nastyj


Hey i think you are going hyperbole on this one, you cant be saying sharia law gives religion the authority to kill for touching the holy book with the left hand? killed for daring to say Allah in a wrongful way? Killed for thinking its not working? Where are you basing your understanding from? I have never heard of this before, can you please link me sources or something?

Sorry, the left hand was wrong but here similar links

www.eutimes.net...

www.nytimes.com...

I'm not sure if it mentions she is a Christian in that report.

Surely you will agree that these reactions are well beyond reasonable, simply mistake and possibly attacks purely based upon being Christian which at the moment is in Pakistan a serious issue. Crimes against Christians for simply being Christian are at an all time high. Sorry but the use of Sharia to do these things is wrong. I understand people have rules and when in Rome etc etc (sadly not used when in UK) but to go to the extreme of assassinating a politician because he wanted to soften the blasphemy laws is a law / belief in faith gone crazy.

As long as people see constant reports from valid sources then the perception of Sharia will never be anything other than a law system that creates its own laws, gives no logical allowance of a defence and most sad, a law that both derides woman and wants blood at any excuse.

That's a law I would NOT want here in any form even if it was only applicable to Muslim people as I know the hard liners who follow it would use it to abuse but as made clear by those wishing to bring it here, they want to replace our laws with this as they see us as un holy.

That aside, the thing about the judgements re my in laws was that the reason you do not hear much if any repulsion of what the radicals want from ordinary Muslims is that they are told that they must not judge a fellow Muslim as only Allah can judge anyone. For me that's a bit of a get out, under the Quran you are entitled to ask question and to decide what is wrong but in this case must keep quiet about it as they will be judged when its their time.

For me that is simply wrong, people have the power to stop what they know is wrong rather than turn a blind eye, for the public perception of Muslims to improve they simply have to voice their feelings about what the radicals are doing and how it's NOT part of the religion as its to be practised.

By not doing it it reinforces the wrong notion that Muslim = terrorist

Sorry i dont have much time so i will be short, i dont think those links represent Sharia law, i read on the first link that it was created is the 1800s by Zia ul Haq, and my opinion of the matter is that they probably didnt establish a proper islamic tribunal etc regarding on implementing a fair law etc. This is more of a cultural problem, and not in sharia law, I was trying to see if Iran had the same laws about this, i couldnt find any so maby you can help, or otherwise i presume that this is just a wrongfully fabricated law.
25 years for a non muslim touching the Quran is absolutely absurd, Islam has a lot of tolerance on non muslims regarding islamic practices and reading the Quran.

Radical muslims will not ask permission or talk with the majority of proper muslims when establishing their ideals, or going out to push their agenda etc. They KNOW that we will argue against them, everywhere standard muslims condemn all the actions regarding terrorists, extremism. We muslims have spoken out on these issues all the time, it has been taught like i told you 99 times within local communities regarding on how to abide by islamic life. We standard muslims havent reached a position of power that enables us to speak publicly about these issues, in terms of MSM or the news etc, and even if we did dont forget who controls this media, TPTB would never let this be shown.
All hope is not lost, there has been a rise in islam, and there are now numerous UK channels about islam, and they are getting readily popular everyday, people on those channels do speak out, but like i said it will never get any attention form the MSM or anything.
The growing trend is that if you ahve anyhting good to say about islam, or defend it, it will never be aired or shown or supported, however when it comes to pointing fingers and playing the blame game, then everyone is all ears. But thats the way things work.

Just look at who controls global MSM, every aspect of the mainstream media is run by people who have a passion against islam, the same guys who are running the wars in iraq afghanistan etc etc. With all the strugges muslims are going through in the world its no doubt why extremism is taking place. Even so called islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey refuse to even help the struggles the muslims are going through in these war torn coutnries, and yet want to incite another war on Iran. These countries all have ties with TPTB, and they would never sacrifice their links, because of power and profit.

Can you understand why extremism is taking place? No, we dont sympathise for the extremist, but we understand where their hatred and plight stems from.

And the joke is half of the extrmeist groups like Taliban and Al Qaida, where Psy opslinked to he CIA, Mossad and other intelligence agencies. Things like 9-11,7-7 etc. I sill cant blieve people dont see the pattern of whats been going on in the last decade, its quite sad

Anyway long post again got carried away and might have slipped off topic, i apologize.

Peace and Salaams

reply to post by nastyj


At the end of the day whoever is to blame its always going to be the innocent who pay.

This time it could be us here in the UK, I'm aware we have the CIA etc to thank for some of these people but we here cannot focus on the initial creator of the problem, but the problem at hand. It might sound harsh but its simply a case of fighting the enemy you can see.

The problem the UK Muslims have is that you have people infiltrating your mosques and while some of the Imans will ask them to go most would rather not upset the boat or in some situation have a sympathy for them. While the UK population hear of another Mosque where radicals have been taught people are going to be very edgy towards places like Mosques.

I hope all this ends well for all of us..

Thanks for the civil replies Nastyj and to all the kinds words from you and others...

There's hope yet....

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by nastyj

 

...As forTPTB - who the hell do you think invented Islam in the first place - all the Judeo-Christian religions were invented by them as a means of controlling the human populations, it gives them absolute control and authority and endless legions of dupes to do their bidding - they have literaly made themselves 'gods on earth'!

Western populations have largely thrown off the shackles of TPTB manufactured religion - which is why they have moved onto communism/socialism, PC multicultual, eco-activism etc and their whole NWO scheme.

Islam at the moment is an embarrassment for them - but nethertheless still a convenient tool to use for collapsing Western society - that is why they have let you all into the West, because it leads inevitablty to a Euro-wide jihadi civil war (in which it is intended that you will all be killed off).

Israel was recreated and armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons for the same reason!

Islam was designed as a complete brainwashing system to enslave the human mind forever - notice there is no element of choice about it - no questioning, no criticism,just blind submissionand obedience - backed up by death for those who disobey - which is why muslims cannot tolerate the slightest criticism - because Islam owns them, they have no identity other than as slaves to Islam,mind body and soul.

JohhneyB I've starred a few of your posts, I can see where you're coming from I think, and there's a lot I can agree with. I'm always glad to see someone trying to think about things through the eyes of the elite (which is what matters far more than our own opinions of course).

I've found that the issue of intentionally created religion is really too wildly paradigm-threatening for the average religionist (whatever their beliefs may be). Of course, no one is alive today who can report on exactly what happened, all eye-witnesses are dead. But the one thing that is obvious, TPTB are most certainly using religion to further their agenda today.

Were most religions started by TPTB, or merely subverted afterward? I don't think it matters that much for practical purposes, because you still have the same situation we have today. And I think that the "subversion" theory is less threatening, although the hardcore would still be a long way from quitting their faith of course.

While there are some reasonable religionists, who can concede that their religions have likely been subverted, there is a variety of religionist that not only will not accept the possibility, but even if they hear you out, and accept a thing "for argument's sake", they then go into another mode, proclaiming that God will surely set things right, so forget TPTB, they will all pay in the end, when God (finally) decides to take his revenge! Hard to ever make progress with folks like that.

As for Western populations moving away from their traditional religions, yes, that has been interesting, as many other things rush in to fill that void. And many of those other things, as you suggest, do seem to be offered by the NWO crowd, so we should all be careful of what we have come to believe, and why. Could be we're playing into our assigned roles.

I'm not sure I see a plan for the destruction of Islamic civilization, although from our present vantage point, I can see why many may think it could be in "the plan".

As you point out in your post, Islam has many qualities that seemingly make it a rather "slavish" religion. Why would our masters want such a thing as that to disappear? Wouldn't that be the sort of thing they might like to harness? Perhaps it could be something that will be built upon?

If the latter ideas are valid, then logically that leads to other conclusions. That is, perhaps "they" (Muslims) are not the true intended targets at all. Could it be that European civilization and religion and culture and even "race"...could it be that they are the "real" target after all?

If so, then much of the last century might suddenly make more sense. Where did we actually see so much war? Europe. That alone accounts for a rather large global demographic "shift". By "intention"? Why so? Where did we see a huge cultural shift? The West. Again, by intention? Where is this heading?

"If" TPTB are mostly responsible for these larger historical changes that we have seen, then we should wonder what they are up to. Did they really intentionally rile the Arab world (through the Israeli installation, together with their intelligence agencies), only to plan on their ultimate destruction? Couldn't they have gone about that differently? Why would they not attempt a different manufactured "enemy"? Why was Europe, or Europeans (wherever they are), or the "West" set as the "enemy" in this game? Don't these kinds of questions make sense?

SO now for my interpretation. What we are seeing, the rise, the spread, and the intentional radicalization of Islam, primarily through their higher birthrates, but certainly aided by criminal Western immigration policies, this we have on one hand.

On the other is a simultaneous decline of Europeans (with birthrates almost as laughable as Jewish ones), as well as a sharp cultural shift, away from traditional core values, with the values assigned the least emphasis not surprisingly being related to self-preservation itself.

This last one should be carefully evaluated, because it suggests a longer-term strategy that has been perpetrated upon the people that does not bode well for their future.

IMO, Muslims can mostly relax in the coming decades. Yes, they will continue to wear the "black hat", they will be victims of vilification, many will die, but the good news (for them) is that far more will be born.

As for Europeans, and their civilization, two things: The civilization will continue to morph into something not merely "multicultural", but it will tend to "uniculturalism", paradoxically as it becomes ever more "global". The second thing, "Europeans", white people in general, well the trends everywhere suggest that they are destined to become a very tiny minority, worldwide. Whether this decline will accelerate into a final extinction, who knows? But the trends are that the world of the future will be decidedly "browner" (setting aside China for the moment).

And Islam (or at least some "approved" form of it) is logically far more likely to become the religion of the future, if we simply extend the things we see going on today.

JR

Baroness Varsi has spoken about against Islamophobia. She has spoken up today and got hit by an egg. She also spoke out against radical Islam. I think Luton is going to try and build some kind of initiative for community cohesion. They are not happy with the EDL March's impact on community relations.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
reply to post by nastyj

 

At the end of the day whoever is to blame its always going to be the innocent who pay.

This time it could be us here in the UK, I'm aware we have the CIA etc to thank for some of these people but we here cannot focus on the initial creator of the problem, but the problem at hand. It might sound harsh but its simply a case of fighting the enemy you can see.

The problem the UK Muslims have is that you have people infiltrating your mosques and while some of the Imans will ask them to go most would rather not upset the boat or in some situation have a sympathy for them. While the UK population hear of another Mosque where radicals have been taught people are going to be very edgy towards places like Mosques.

I hope all this ends well for all of us..

Thanks for the civil replies Nastyj and to all the kinds words from you and others...

There's hope yet....

Surely it would be better to go for the source? If you keep trying to tear down new enemies in front of you, another 100 will turn up after as it has always been in history with all the mainstream faiths. Thought never has any word been made against the luciferic elite who are pulling all the strings and in ages past all caused the problems of each and ever era. Yet it was always religion getting blamed, not the anti - religion> the luciferic regime/illuminati/pagans/occult devil worshippers. The reason they can get away with all th problems is that they are encouraged in their beliefs to lie and bend the truth to meet their agendas, whilst the monotheistic religions are not allowed to do this, when it comes to spreading religion it has always bee done directly and honestly.
Wheras to spread this satanism, they cant simply come out with it and teach it like other religions, they have to indoctrinate, and apply long term generation spanning mind control through desensitization and all the other methods.

I am skeptical that these guys cant infiltrate mosques like this, mosques have a very high threshold and intolerance towards changing the way things are taught and practiced. Mosques are backed by scholars who are backed by their madrassahs, also the community who use the mosque regularly everyday to pray etc. These guy are very wary when new practices are bieng made and will ask alotta questions.

My opinion radicalisation is being done very personally, where people are picked out and are bein manpulated outside the mosque, maybe through the interenet or something.

Yeah its good we can talk civilly about thee things, makes a change from some older threads ive read

Most threads just throw slander back and forth, picking out problems in eachothers arguments like its a win or lose situation. It should be about talking about solutions of our problems on both sides.

reply to post by nastyj


"My opinion radicalisation is being done very personally, where people are picked out and are bein manpulated outside the mosque, maybe through the interenet or something."

This is my understanding of the mechanism. There may be spotters in the Mosques but the major action is done outside over informal house meetings that use any argument to suck the people with a vulnerable personality in embrace fundamentalism. This is not like fundamentalist christian sects that have a clear name like Baptists or Plymouth Bretheren and a church. This is so much more informal and therefore difficult to break.

Broad brush approaches will not work and attacking the peaceful moslems may drive some over the edge.

The guys may be successful,and academically able etc. but whatever the crack is in their psyches that is how the recruiters get in and turn them. There was a brilliant article in Prospect magazine that explained what was happening in Leeds.

Were most religions started by TPTB, or merely subverted afterward? I don't think it matters that much for practical purposes, because you still have the same situation we have today. And I think that the "subversion" theory is less threatening, although the hardcore would still be a long way from quitting their faith of course.

Hey mate i just want to say, your post is awesome starred, raises many interesting points and valid arguments, exactly the way a debate or discussion should be going.

Hey im not sure if i agree with you there, the difference between TPTB starting a religion to further their agenda or to subvert one would have dramatic differences. The difference between the ideologies of TPTB and mainstream religion is that one is polytheistic while another is monotheistic in its most general definition.
The two sides are opposite, without a middle ground at all.

The question is why would TPTB create mutliple monotheistic religions to only fight them? I mean if they wanted control they could do that, they do not need to create an enemy to do it. Back during the early revelations like the Old testament, there was no other monotheistic big religion, so it wasnt at all about turning one monotheistic religion on another. It was simply a war between the pagan/polytheists, and the first Jews.

Why would TPTB of the times, Egyptian empire, Roman Empire etc invent a monotheistic religion to topple their own kingdom only to rebuild it and topple it again, why start 1001 wars if you are controlling both sides, i dont understand how any level of control would be build if it were the case that TPTB created a religion.

While there are some reasonable religionists, who can concede that their religions have likely been subverted, there is a variety of religionist that not only will not accept the possibility, but even if they hear you out, and accept a thing "for argument's sake", they then go into another mode, proclaiming that God will surely set things right, so forget TPTB, they will all pay in the end, when God (finally) decides to take his revenge! Hard to ever make progress with folks like that.

Yeah lol, i do tend to fit this category sometimes, I would say that God would settle the scores through the prophecies that are indeed being fulfilled as we speak.
However, it is ignorant to say that religion is not being infiltrated or being subverted to push agendas. These people will try to paint religion in such manner as to hide or even lie about it to sell it and convert people, yet it goes against their own religion in the first place to do so.
However such is not the case with TPTB, who will lie and plan ahead to further their goals of domination and control. This is the biggest difference in between Religionists and TPTB, religionist cannot band together and scheme such operations to further their religious control as they will most likely have to sell out their own ideals and religious beliefs in the process.
The problem with TPTB is that they have been long planning these things, if you stuy about the old bavarian illuminati, Robert Anton Wilson, and numerous other think tanks and great philosophers, these highly intellectual people plan things 1001 steps ahead of the rest, spanning many generations. It is impossible to counter such a force, they will use the worst, the most ingenious and efficient way to control people, the only way to fight back is to use their own methods of control against them, but that would have you selling your ideals and beliefs by doing acts against your better nature. That is why the only way to combat them is to have faith in a divine intermediary that religionists believe in.

As for Western populations moving away from their traditional religions, yes, that has been interesting, as many other things rush in to fill that void. And many of those other things, as you suggest, do seem to be offered by the NWO crowd, so we should all be careful of what we have come to believe, and why. Could be we're playing into our assigned roles.

Yes it is true, western populations are moving away from traditional religions, some on the right path, some totally forgetting their religious roots (which is the most common) and some totally on the wrong path.
I see that most so called christians, nearly all of them the i ahve known in my life, my friends etc. None of them hardly identify themselves with christianity, it has long since been lost practiced. Most have slipped into the belief of Agnostic, thought they dont know why, only becasue they know too little of their own faith, because it hasnt been practiced or been neglected, from this crowed also people have become vehemently atheist too, all this spanning multi generations.
The thing is, over the course of these generations and the advances in science, people somehow came to the conclusion that religion has totally been debunked when in fact it hasnt at all. The common folk tend to fall to the assumption that with all this scientific knowledge that religion is old and backwards. Yet they forget taht the religionists themselves were the ones to ahve advanced such and such technology and thinking in the first place.
Imo this degeneration of thought has lead to, a rise in athiesm, i dont believe that atheist is a sect that grew and built with teachings and new thinking, but instead people fell into it.
The education system in western society, especially for the younger ages, has absolutly no concern for such subjects involving thinking, ideas, philosophy etc. And such is the system that has been established by the PTB.
In some ways we have definitely played into the hands of the PTB.

I'm not sure I see a plan for the destruction of Islamic civilization, although from our present vantage point, I can see why many may think it could be in "the plan".

Well at least we can agree there most definitely is a plan
Imo, islam is the only religion that like people have said in a negative way it is 1200AD lol. Yet since revelation to now, the Quran has remained unchanged and unaltered as it has been memorised and passed down through generations upon generations. This and the fact that Islam is a very strict religion that i think we can both agree on is a lot more practiced in as it is more of a way of life then simply a belief system. It has been practiced almost like a culture, which is Islam does tend to get blamed by the practices of such cultures, pakistan iran etc etc.
It is because of this, and the fact that islamic life has been engrained so ehavily upon the lives of the muslims that practice it, and the fact they remain isolated from the changed the PTB implement through the governing system/education system etc etc. is the fact that it is the least able to be controlled, which is why massive measures are being taken to subvert it. We cant let what happened in civilisations in the apst happen over and over again falling for the same mistakes.

As you point out in your post, Islam has many qualities that seemingly make it a rather "slavish" religion. Why would our masters want such a thing as that to disappear? Wouldn't that be the sort of thing they might like to harness? Perhaps it could be something that will be built upon?

Yes it appears to be slavish, but for all tribes there ever was in history like the natives etc, they all had their system and it appears to be slavish because people always stayed within their belief system or culture.
But the fact that it is slavish i will tell you is all propaganda. The only slaves we are is to God, and only him.
Look at TPTB and theire contorl systems, capitalist, hierarchical based systems, where there is an elite t run the masses, this elite are people, people rulin over people. All for profit, power to fill their superiority complex.

Look at the teaching of all religions, religion gives power to the people, it teaches equality between men, when people say islam and muslims think they are superior to everyone, they ned to look at their government, because in todays society in who can build the most,mke the most money, it is based 999999% more on superiority then anythin else. Hell, at least our masters are God, and divinte forces. Yet the masses decide to give up their beliefs to the Elite humans who believe in their luciferic practices that they can deify themselves, and proclaim sovereignty over man.

The thing that makes them able to control people easily is to give them 'pleasures', money, materialistic things that everyone values, an 'easy' life so to speak, where as the religious person has to strive to stay godly, stay away from pleasures an all in all have a more 'boring' time. When one is presented with such rewards in front of them, then control can easily be made. Look at society and the kids nowadays, they have been desensitized by stripping them of their morals etc. making all the bad things appear to be good. Music, clubbing, sex, materialistic things, wealth, etc.

If the latter ideas are valid, then logically that leads to other conclusions. That is, perhaps "they" (Muslims) are not the true intended targets at all. Could it be that European civilization and religion and culture and even "race"...could it be that they are the "real" target after all?

I dont know about you but imo it seems that most global links have been made, most of the superpowers in the world are already allies with eachother. Only a minority remain, and that lies within muslim countries imo.
If i were to give you a religious interpretation, then these ties that fit together and connection made exactly fit the prophecy of Gog Magog/ Y'ajuj wa M'ajuj, Basicall TPTB alliance before unifying them with the NWO and dajjal/antichrist.
Everything that is happening in the world, science, etc are all going hand in hand with religious prophecies. IMO Religion is moving further and further from being debunked in this modern age. That is why the increase in TPTB operations is escalating. Everon in ATS can feel this culmination of events, be they religious or not, im sur eyou would agree here.

If so, then much of the last century might suddenly make more sense. Where did we actually see so much war? Europe. That alone accounts for a rather large global demographic "shift". By "intention"? Why so? Where did we see a huge cultural shift? The West. Again, by intention? Where is this heading?

"If" TPTB are mostly responsible for these larger historical changes that we have seen, then we should wonder what they are up to. Did they really intentionally rile the Arab world (through the Israeli installation, together with their intelligence agencies), only to plan on their ultimate destruction? Couldn't they have gone about that differently? Why would they not attempt a different manufactured "enemy"? Why was Europe, or Europeans (wherever they are), or the "West" set as the "enemy" in this game? Don't these kinds of questions make sense?

Excellent questions mate, (i cant seem to give a thumbs up lol d'oh) i dont think we will get a solid answer to that until its too late....

SO now for my interpretation. What we are seeing, the rise, the spread, and the intentional radicalization of Islam, primarily through their higher birthrates, but certainly aided by criminal Western immigration policies, this we have on one hand.

On the other is a simultaneous decline of Europeans (with birthrates almost as laughable as Jewish ones), as well as a sharp cultural shift, away from traditional core values, with the values assigned the least emphasis not surprisingly being related to self-preservation itself.

This last one should be carefully evaluated, because it suggests a longer-term strategy that has been perpetrated upon the people that does not bode well for their future.

IMO, Muslims can mostly relax in the coming decades. Yes, they will continue to wear the "black hat", they will be victims of vilification, many will die, but the good news (for them) is that far more will be born.

Another thumbs up, definite arguments raised, and would love to hear them answered, i think from reading m y above replies, you will start to get my theory on what is happening.

As for muslims relaxing, easier said than done when tons of brother and sisters are bing killed for evil causes. We do not believe that having a bigger family will fix this problem lol, most muslims including me believe that we are too close to the end. In fact my opinion, God willing i live a long life, i will end up witnessing the major signs unfold (then again maybe i would rather die before these great tribulations occur, as it has been prophecised that this will be the harshest time for not just the muslim but the monotheistic godloving indivuals (.<