Atheism

Originally posted by bogomil
I expect 'Science is doctrinal' coming around soon.

That's been around for a while, actually.
It thrives in certain areas on this very site.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Which is why I don't post in the science forums. All the pseudoscience people keep saying that science is doctrinal and "TPB" are suppressing things...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Which is why I don't post in the science forums. All the pseudoscience people keep saying that science is doctrinal and "TPB" are suppressing things...

Indeed there is a ton of that. It also exists rather strongly in the anti-evolution crowd also. It's unbelievable people still have such thought processes in the 21st century.

Thanks Traditionaldrummer and Madnessinmysoul

I usually graze on the religion-oriented subforums, so I wasn't aware of these 'science is doctrinal' manifestations.

But it only confirms my growing conviction, that extremist attitudes mainly stem from psychological conditions.

This maybe isn't such a profound observation in itself, but I do have a kind of horrified fascination about the precise balancing with which scientific objectivity is disregarded, twisted semantics wholly accepted and epistemology being a city on Mars.

Such requires a finely tuned mind, and from my theoretical and practical background I would expect such minds to crack relatively often. An afternoon spend googling the situation showed me, that the subject is TABOO, which in an inverse way also is a kind of information.

And maybe my thoughts on this aren't so far removed from OP after all, relating to the words "this social virus called religion" in it. I have yet to hear of 'atheist psychosis'.

The only thing I am thankful for being a supposed Protestant for is not being Circumcised

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


the origins of atheism is theism and atheism relies on theism to exist, and even being a such a small minority of true active atheists I still say this professed group is small enough give recognition to... everyone in my country gets recognition actually if they want it.

nice videos there... I was thinking more along the lines of Dawkins or Ricky Gervais doing one of their more professional comedy stints about deities from India or other non-Monotheistic culture.

thanks anyway but a quickly made up youtube broadcast is not gonna do it for me, I still like to see these professors on national television doing what they do so it would prove to me they know atleast something about other cultures in say Africa or India, then maybe garnering a little love from some of the other said nations.

so did you buy the book ?

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

the origins of atheism is theism and atheism relies on theism to exist.

Actually you're quite wrong. The origin of anti-theism is theism. If there were no theists there would be only atheists, by definition.
Theism is an attempt to assign a "why" to things we do not yet comprehend. Atheism is the simple understanding that there is no need for a "why".....but that "how" can be extremely interesting.

I do not feel threatened by believers. I do have a fascination with "how" anyone with a reasonable education can buy into the fairytale (any of them) however.

reply to post by Noncompatible

interesting concept... I think it would be a good idea

I do have a fascination with "how" anyone with a reasonable education can buy into the fairytale (any of them) however.

it is less a fairy tale and more of a way of life, something every fatherless or motherless human can use for that matter especially in this day and age... besides the fact that the "why" encompasses all and will always be there. In fact I believe modern science as we know it comes from the study of the nature of light itself as I once heard it put.

I somewhat feel threatened by atheism, it's proponents have the ability to be quite inhumane and I like to know "why" it exists really. as some claim, if alot of atheists supposedly know more about my particular brand of fairy tale then how could it be possible they are still atheists ? in my perspective the "how" is known, the "why" remains for the supposed versed atheist... and I am yet to meet one.

did I mention I know nothing much of the Bible at all ? just a few things here and there...

I have somewhat an answer to the "why" atheism exists though...

1. it is apparently cool to not believe in God(s) specially Monotheism's God which it also seems is the only God the cool professed atheist is aware of.

2. lack of education.

Re Cosmic.Artifact

What IS it with you guys and semantic shufflings? Is it because you don't have anything real to come with?

I'll return a few of your posts back, where you still followed the direction of the bizarre, 'tactical' effort of mis-defining atheism into a position suitable to your propaganda. Quote:

[" the origins of atheism is theism and atheism relies on theism to exist,"]

1. Definition: The prefix 'a' to a word doesn't create some symmetric mirror-image situation between the word and its 'a-' version.

A person can be a-typical completely unrelated to what's typical. He/she can be a-social, without ever having heard about social norms or practices.

2. Semantics: As concepts, theism and atheism CAN be postulated to belong to the same category vaguely outlined as 'belief-systems'. First: Belonging to the same category don't make concepts identical or more than slightly similar; second: Especially not when the category 'belief-systems' (as in this case 'arranged' by theists themselves) ranges from mankind's most logical and rational systematic methodologies to equivalents of the flying spaghetti monster.

This is the most beloved gambit of all missionary fanatics. Dress up confused associations (inductive argumentation) as logic (deductive reasoning) and sell this propaganda cr*p as the real thing.

3. Etymology: It's completely irrelevant in the present context, if the word 'theism' so to speak 'came first'. I can on the spot invent a concept so insane, that nobody ever thought of it before. Say in the 21st dimension of a parallel universe Sxxxtl came out of the state of Mn'ing and believed mankind's universe into being. I call the teachings of and on this for Sxxxtl'ism. Sane people around me, who don't want to be infected with my insanity in any way, consider themselves a-Sxxxtl'ists.

4. Epistemology: Atheism is self-defined in such a precise and relevant way, that this definition is in complete accordance with the aims and procedures of atheism (there may be atheists, who are totally disinterested in defining themselves, but just individually are atheists).

Atheism consider the CONCEPT of theism invalid, until the theist concept per se is proved. This is not to be confused with anti-theism which uses an active burden of proof on both theist concept and intrinsic content.

5. Practical application: In spite of having met the above over and over, propagandist theists choose to ignore it, and use 'atheism as a belief-sysem' as a SLOGAN, which in the traditional style of propagandists just is hammered home again and again and again and .....in the naive and over-optimistic hope, that someone will be brainwashed eventually.

Brethren and sistren of singleminded mindsets: "The map is not the territory"....

.....and especially not such a miserable semantic nonsense-map as 'atheism is a belief-system' comparable to theism.

It's questionable if this procedure has the wished-for effect from theist propagandists. Personally I would guess, that the public result will be: "The freaks are at it again".

And I'm not even an atheist; I just dislike when language is exposed to homo rapiens.

Re Cosmic.Artifact

You wrote:

["I have somewhat an answer to the "why" atheism exists though..."]

I also have a somewhat more answer to why atheism exists.

Quote: ["1. it is apparently cool to not believe in God(s) specially Monotheism's God which it also seems is the only God the cool professed atheist is aware of."]

1. It's apparantly cool NOT to believe in: Inquisition, theocracy, preachers yelling at people from streetcorners, making sermons on dialogue-oriented forums, suppression of rational knowledge and in the basically fascist ideology of extremist claims for privileges.

Quote: ["2. lack of education."]

2. As compared to .... you? (You must have a reference-point for such claims).

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

the origins of atheism is theism and atheism relies on theism to exist,

No, atheism would exist regardless of the existence of theism. It would simply lack a label. If everyone were atheists and theism had never arisen then atheism would be a foregone conclusion.

and even being a such a small minority of true active atheists I still say this professed group is small enough give recognition to... everyone in my country gets recognition actually if they want it.

And yet they're still the subject of public distrust for no intelligible reason. Atheists are discriminated against in many parts of the nation. Hell, there are laws that are still technically active barring atheists from holding public office, being in juries, and/or testifying in court.

nice videos there... I was thinking more along the lines of Dawkins or Ricky Gervais doing one of their more professional comedy stints about deities from India or other non-Monotheistic culture.

Dawkins is no comedian...and I must point out that they don't have a primarily Hindu or polytheistic audience, so what would be the point?

thanks anyway but a quickly made up youtube broadcast is not gonna do it for me,

Are you accusing me of making it up on the spot? The YouTube video for 'indianfreethinker' is just a bit over two years old and the one about Greek mythology is over a month old. And you asked for a video, where else was I going to get it from?

I still like to see these professors on national television doing what they do so it would prove to me they know atleast something about other cultures in say Africa or India,

Richard Dawkins was born in Nairobi and lived in colonial Kenya until he was eight. You asked for evidence of skepticism of religions other than Christianity, I provided you with an Indian source and a video that shows evidence that classical Greece was full of atheism. Hell, here's a link to FIRA, the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations. As described at that link:

Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations (FIRA) is an umbrella body of nearly 50 rationalist, atheist, skeptic, secularist and science organisations in India. As an apex body of rationalist organisations, it is committed to the development of scientific temper and humanism in India.

Of course, you just want to see Western people participating in an exercise in futility. What would be the point of Richard Dawkins going on national television in the USA and pointing out the absurdity of non-Abrahamic religion?

Oh, and the other thing is that they do talk about Islam in the west, but that doesn't count, does it?

I wonder how far you'll keep pushing back the goal posts.

then maybe garnering a little love from some of the other said nations.

Or they'd just be ignored because they're doing that in America...

so did you buy the book ?

Which book? I don't really have time to buy any books right now, I've been busy studying for exams. In fact, I'm in a debate right now which was postponed for a week so I could study for exams and complete assignments.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


Oh, one more thing. Here's a video from Indian television in which an Indian atheist challenged a Tantric guru to demonstrate his powers...by which it was a challenge to literally kill the atheist with those powers:

Sanal Edamaruku is the name of this atheist and he is quite epic.

I'm going to put up the first part of the event, you can see the rest on YouTube. Unfortunately it's unsubtitled.



Of course, I bet you'll still think that all atheists are English speaking white people.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
No, atheism would exist regardless of the existence of theism.

flawed, illogical and irrational.

It would simply lack a label. If everyone were atheists and theism had never arisen then atheism would be a foregone conclusion.

you wouldn't say, what can we call it then in this hypothetical fantasy world ?

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

If there was no theism.... then everyone would be an atheist.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god. Nothing more.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Of course, I bet you'll still think that all atheists are English speaking white people.

your digging quite deep there

remember though I wanted to see a professed English speaking white person such as Atheism's deity (Richard Dawkins) attacking any other religion or belief structure than Monotheism.

good find though and nice try, I do not doubt this supposed Indian atheist denouncing black magic either, I think it is rather cool... I wonder what he truly believes in since I am not speaking Hindi very well myself.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

 

If there was no theism.... then everyone would be an atheist.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god. Nothing more.

yeah that's really cool...

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact


You wouldn't know any different, but it would still be atheism.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
No, atheism would exist regardless of the existence of theism.

flawed, illogical and irrational.

If you think that it is then you actually have to point out the flaws, lack of logic, and lack of rational thought.

It would simply lack a label. If everyone were atheists and theism had never arisen then atheism would be a foregone conclusion.

you wouldn't say, what can we call it then in this hypothetical fantasy world ?

We wouldn't call it anything. I'm thinking of a concept in my head that nobody in the world believes in...what do I call everyone in the world who doesn't believe it?

And it's not a hypothetical fantasy world, as there are indigenous cultures that have absolutely no conception of religion, deities, the afterlife, or spirits. They have no word for atheist because they didn't know what wasn't an atheist prior to an external introduction of theistic ideas.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Of course, I bet you'll still think that all atheists are English speaking white people.

your digging quite deep there

remember though I wanted to see a professed English speaking white person such as Atheism's deity (Richard Dawkins) attacking any other religion or belief structure than Monotheism.

He's not a deity in our eyes, he's just a great biologist that also happens to be a great champion of reason. He's a fallible human being like the rest of us and should be judged by his actions and nothing more.

And would Christopher Hitchens count? Chapter 14 of "God Is Not Great" focuses on Hinduism and Buddhism. It's titled "There Is No 'Eastern' Solution".

good find though and nice try, I do not doubt this supposed Indian atheist denouncing black magic either, I think it is rather cool... I wonder what he truly believes in since I am not speaking Hindi very well myself.

Well, he does run the largest atheist publishing house in Asia...
Of course, he does happen to speak English and did an interview with the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe podcast and you can download it here.