If human opinion creates 'good' and 'bad', how can we actually determine God is 'good' and Sat

Well if you saw my title you know what I mean. Let me get this straight. Is there such thing as good and evil? An example is:
The Taliban: Many Muslims believe that these men are freedom fighters, heroes, martyrs, bringers of justice etc. Meanwhile, westerners everywhere around the world believe these people are bad and evil, monsters, beasts.
Now lets do the same with US soldiers. Same thing happens but this time, the westerners think they are good and the muslims think they are bad.
What does that mean? There are different opinions. Which onE is right?
Now lets make this even larger. God and Satan. As I said before, people have different views on good and bad. Some person (possibly a worshipper of the devil or whatever) says god is an evil monster while a faithful believer praises god. Who is the good one? We can't decide since we will use our opinion! Not the real thing!

I'm sorry to say but it's all "relative". Anyone's definition of "good" or "evil" is based on their experiences, and is entirely relative to that individual.

reply to post by RimDaas


Read Plato's dialogue "Euthyfro" (classics.mit.edu...), and you'll find that similar questions on the nature of "good" and "bad" have been being asked for thousands of years.

reply to post by Anhur


the whole God is perfect thing is ridiculous, no?

a perfect being could not creat anything unperfect.. of god intentionally created man flawed doesn't that prove he must not be perfect? a perfect being can only create perfection, OR it is not a perfect being.

unless god is also evil, which is a better explanation. i would never treat one of my kids better than the other.. who would?

Nobody is right if everybody is wrong.

Right and wrong are a matter of perspective,everyone's perspective is different than that of others.

That's how I see it........

There are lots of IF's

IF there is a god ...can you really try and pshyco anaylize him ?

Just like darwinists who try and pshyco anaylize natural selection ?

Its done directly and indirectly its just a byproduct of humans inflated ego's ....

We are so full of our selfs its no wonder why we can't get along , lie to each other , destroy each other , put our planet to a tipping point.


The bottoem line is we are all cancer , only preception of good is just our dillusional fantacy that we have higher purpose and are better then anything else...

don't worry just deny ignorance the best you can ...

Originally posted by RimDaas
Well if you saw my title you know what I mean. Let me get this straight. Is there such thing as good and evil? An example is:
The Taliban: Many Muslims believe that these men are freedom fighters, heroes, martyrs, bringers of justice etc. Meanwhile, westerners everywhere around the world believe these people are bad and evil, monsters, beasts.
Now lets do the same with US soldiers. Same thing happens but this time, the westerners think they are good and the muslims think they are bad.
What does that mean? There are different opinions. Which onE is right?
Now lets make this even larger. God and Satan. As I said before, people have different views on good and bad. Some person (possibly a worshipper of the devil or whatever) says god is an evil monster while a faithful believer praises god. Who is the good one? We can't decide since we will use our opinion! Not the real thing!

edit on 15-1-2011 by RimDaas because: (no reason given)

Well my answer would be that does it break the 10 commandments, which I believe the muslims do not adhere to. And I would also state the Catholic church is not a picture of Christianity.

The Bible is clear in the New Testament we are no longer under subjection of the old Testament other then the 10 commandments, killing is wrong; that does not mean defending one self or others, and I would say that does not mean after your country starts a war then as a Christian you are OK,ed to kill either.

But comparing the way of Jesus to the way of the Muslim is like Comparing Apples to eggplant.

Jesus does not tell us to go out and kill any one that will not except him, they do though.

Jesus does not require religious leaders to keep the people down, yet they do.

But as for your title I do not believe man could decide what is right or wrong, as many posters here will tell you, "right and wrong are subjective".

That is a way to say well I do not have to live by the Standards of God, because there are others out there that believe the way I do and that God does not exist or that he changes over time (which is false)

Killing is killing no matter which flag or which book you claim said it is OK.

Your moral compass should tell you what is good and bad. Public opinion only tells us what is acceptable and unacceptable.

For instance, we don;'t need a law to tell us it is bad to kill someone, as you only need to reflect upon yourself and ask the question "would I want to be killed?".

Conversely, speeding is neither good nor bad; rather, it is deemed unacceptable by public opinion. If reflecting internally about speeding, you may have mixed feelings (i.e., sometimes it's ok, sometimes it's not).

my 2-cents

The problem with the OP is that you are assuming God actually exists.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

Originally posted by RimDaas
Well if you saw my title you know what I mean. Let me get this straight. Is there such thing as good and evil? An example is:
The Taliban: Many Muslims believe that these men are freedom fighters, heroes, martyrs, bringers of justice etc. Meanwhile, westerners everywhere around the world believe these people are bad and evil, monsters, beasts.
Now lets do the same with US soldiers. Same thing happens but this time, the westerners think they are good and the muslims think they are bad.
What does that mean? There are different opinions. Which onE is right?
Now lets make this even larger. God and Satan. As I said before, people have different views on good and bad. Some person (possibly a worshipper of the devil or whatever) says god is an evil monster while a faithful believer praises god. Who is the good one? We can't decide since we will use our opinion! Not the real thing!

edit on 15-1-2011 by RimDaas because: (no reason given)

Well my answer would be that does it break the 10 commandments, which I believe the muslims do not adhere to. And I would also state the Catholic church is not a picture of Christianity.

The Bible is clear in the New Testament we are no longer under subjection of the old Testament other then the 10 commandments, killing is wrong; that does not mean defending one self or others, and I would say that does not mean after your country starts a war then as a Christian you are OK,ed to kill either.

But comparing the way of Jesus to the way of the Muslim is like Comparing Apples to eggplant.

Jesus does not tell us to go out and kill any one that will not except him, they do though.

Jesus does not require religious leaders to keep the people down, yet they do.

But as for your title I do not believe man could decide what is right or wrong, as many posters here will tell you, "right and wrong are subjective".

That is a way to say well I do not have to live by the Standards of God, because there are others out there that believe the way I do and that God does not exist or that he changes over time (which is false)

Killing is killing no matter which flag or which book you claim said it is OK.

"The Bible is clear in the New Testament we are no longer under subjection of the old Testament "


Really?


Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)" It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)" We clearly see in these verses that Jesus peace be upon him did not prohibit for the Old Testament to be followed, but only warned his followers to not follow it the way the current religious leaders of the Law (the Jewish Rabies) were following it.

www.answering-christianity.com...


Old and new if there both "inspired" from "God" then whats the beef

I wont enter into details (mostly cuz i dont remember them anyway..) but the fact is that the whole bible Devil thing is a traduction mistake, from hebrew to greek, about the prince of the morning star or something.

So the Satan myth is as valuable as the Santa Klaus 1...

Now about good & evil, i dont agree about relativity of this subject. What is bad is bad , point. No need to philosophate about it. About the Talibans & the G.I's, it's a bad example, because u'll find that most of the american ppl are against the afghan invasion, so they r sided with talibans in some way.

The rest is propaganda to support weapons industry, i mean who the hell cares if some tards refuse movie theaters & dress up their wives in fabric-jails ? Did u try & invade the amish people ? no.

The root of all evil, that's the real question, what is the original sin ? the worst 1? Killing. Either a human being or an animal. Because those violent toward the beasts, become violent toward the rest of nature, & so does those who profit from the beast slayers.

This said, enjoy ur pig-ass bacon. lol .. the good, the bad... what about the ugly ?

reply to post by RimDaas


Westerners = fighting to stop theocratic cults weaponising themselves and governing people by force. This isn't a holy war, this isn't fascism, Western ideology is not Master Race/Divide and Conquer like Nazism. Westerns have the right to freedom of speech, but with Islamic censorship we're slowly having our rights taken away in the name of Allah, this is nonsense.

Muslim = Islamic doctrine is evil preaching, it talks ill of non-believers and in many cases incites genocide of them, it's goal is to dominate to be the main religion because it thinks it is "true" out of all the other religion. This is the idiocy just a simple belief can cause. Read the scriptures, i certainly have and i was sickened.

reply to post by RimDaas


Evil = Selfishness

Good = Selflessness

reply to post by dusty1

That is indeed a good way to describe your interpretation.

Now define selfish and selfless.

Is it selfish to deny one person to support another ? Or is it selfless to support your family and deny charitable contributions ?

Everything is subjective. Only you can know your path.

reply to post by RimDaas

All you have to do is seek Enlightenment, seek the direct experience of God.

Once you do that then you will see for yourself not only that God is completely transcendent and beyond words, but you will also find out that the experience of God is better than any possible experience available to mankind on this planet and beyond.

One small little 3 second glimpse of the Supreme Absolute and you would literally be willing to leave behind all your likes/dislikes, habits, ego, and everything you know to have the experience of that.

It is Grand and beyond the awesomest Awesome and coincidentally has nothing to do with martyrdom or being a soldier to go fight wars.

However basic this insight of yours in in general philosophy 101 ....it is merely the "relativity of things."
The experience of God is non-relative, nonlocalized, and can be had by anyone and is extremely accesible except that most dont care, or dare to go there. The rest just project opionion onto God, which have nothig to do with God.

Go for the direct experience. Read everything you can about how to get to the direct experience of God, the Absolute Truth, Nonduality, and so forth.

Everything else is philosophy 101 and the product of mind stuff and what is called the 10,000 things ...or the 10,000 distractions that get one no where except logical-circles and loops.

Go for the Gold

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by RimDaas

 

Westerners = fighting to stop theocratic cults weaponising themselves and governing people by force. This isn't a holy war, this isn't fascism, Western ideology is not Master Race/Divide and Conquer like Nazism. Westerns have the right to freedom of speech, but with Islamic censorship we're slowly having our rights taken away in the name of Allah, this is nonsense.

Muslim = Islamic doctrine is evil preaching, it talks ill of non-believers and in many cases incites genocide of them, it's goal is to dominate to be the main religion because it thinks it is "true" out of all the other religion. This is the idiocy just a simple belief can cause. Read the scriptures, i certainly have and i was sickened.

Please take you're anti-Islamic idiocy away. This is not a "Come here to flame muslims!" thread.

reply to post by dusty1


In a guy's opinion, the british queen Victoria was bad. But didn't she in her first years act selfless?

reply to post by RimDaas


LOL

Originally posted by seedofchucky
Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)" It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled

Jesus was saying this while he was still alive. You say, every single "letter" of it has to be honored followed and fulfilled, but right before that you quoted Jesus saying, he had not come to abolish the laws, but to fulfill them.

You're saying they need to be fulfilled, but Jesus was going to fulfill them. Which is it? Well I will tell you. He already fulfilled them. He was the sacrifice that fulfilled the law. Once it's fulfilled it's fulfilled, it doesn't need to be fulfilled again for it's fully filled. There's no more to the contract.

The law still exists and is in place, but there's nothing more that one needs to do to be in compliance with it. Yes the smallest letter or stroke of a pen will not disappear from the OT law, but, if you open up any Bible you can see that's true. The law is still written in the OT part of the Bible like it always has been. Not one letter missing. But the contract itself has been fulfilled.

Just like if you were on probation. There might be certain requirements you have to meet for probation. Like drug testing for example and reporting to your PO. But once you're off probation you're off probation. The law hasn't changed though. The laws are still the same. Commit your crime again and you'll have to go through all that trouble again because the law is the same as it always has been. But how YOU relate to the law is now different because you're not on probation anymore. So even though the law hasn't changed, you no longer have to be drug tested. It's YOU that's changed. When Jesus was crucified he paid the price of all our sins for all time. It's US that was changed because now our sins were paid for, not the law.

We are no longer judged by the old law, because the old law is now fully filled and Jesus' sacrifice washed away all his believers sin as long as they would believe in him and repent. So even thought the OT law is the same, our sin has already been paid for and WE'RE very different beings. We've been pardoned by the big guy himself. We don't have to do burnt sacrifices at the alter anymore to pay for our sins. Jesus' sacrifice has already paid for all our sins and therefore the OT law doesn't apply. We're not on probation anymore.

All contractual obligations that go along with the OT have been met for us. It's an expired contract now and to keep following it is an insult to Jesus because it's basically saying his sacrifice wasn't enough to fulfill the law. But indeed it was. But not until Jesus was crucified, not until ALL was ACCOMPLISHED meaning the sacrifice. The last part of the contract. But when he was saying this, he was still alive and had just gotten started so that hadn't happened yet. After all, this is Matthew 5 and all wasn't accomplished until Matthew 28.

Now we have to look at the part people always leave out when they post that. Right after that in the Bible Jesus says "anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven" and a lot of people think he's talking about the OT, but he's not. When he says THESE commandments, if you'll look underneath that on the same page you'll see he's giving a new list of commandments.

They are listed right under that. They are listed as don't murder, don't commit adultery, rules on divorce, oaths, revenge, and love thy enemy and so on right under that. We still have to follow those, but not the old laws.

Jesus says the OT law will not be changed until Heaven and Earth disappear and indeed they have not. The OT is the same as it always has been written down right in the Bible, every letter, but a new Heaven and Earth? When does that happen? It happens when Jesus returns. But when does Jesus return?

He already did. Three days after the crucifixion Jesus came back. After all didn't Jesus say 'And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power'

And people are still trying to figure this out? Still waiting for Jesus? Jesus ALREADY returned. This IS the kingdom of God. This is the new Heaven and Earth. Now ruled by the new covenant and we've all been waiting when what we're supposed to be doing is PREPARING it for when God takes his kingdom back from the rule of man.

The OT law though is fully fulfilled though, but only AFTER the crucifixion. That hadn't happened yet in the part of the Bible you're quoting from, but it HAS happened now. If you don't believe me though, you better get out your red heifers and start sacrificing them though. Got a lot of burnt sacrifices to make up for because I guess we were supposed to be doing that right?

BUT it is true the NT tells us we must obey the ruling powers, but not do what they do. But that is only until God takes his Kingdom back. But the pharisees aren't the ruling power anymore.

As a response to this, human opinion creates God, so far there is no evidence other than the opinion of other man that God does in fact exist.

If it was proved tommorow that God doesn't exist, we would still have to cooperate and work together to build a just society.......morality, ethics, law, philosophy, love would still have meaning without believing in an invisible man.