"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Yes but the glass in the video I posted still shatters even when a deaf person watches it shatter, in which case there are no electrical impulses reaching the brain of the deaf person.

You're joking, right? That's hilarious.

If that isn't twisted, convoluted logic, I don't know what is. You're giving me a headache. Go to your room!!

Originally posted by Mary Rose

You're joking, right? That's hilarious.

If that isn't twisted, convoluted logic, I don't know what is. You're giving me a headache. Go to your room!!

I'm serious. If you don't like the deaf person example, put the glass in a soundproof room that won't leak any sound. Have some observers outside the room watch the glass shatter through a video camera of what's going on in the room, or though a series of windows enclosing a vacuum to stop the sound. They will see the glass shatter but no electrical impulses will reach the brain.

If you think I'm joking, where is the electricity in this example? There isn't any.

The convoluted logic is thinking that because electrical impulses reach the brain, the sound must be electrical. It's not. The ear is able to convert mechanical energy into electrical signals, so it's only electrical in that example between the ear and the brain.

I have found that the rodin coil is actually an electrical pressure amplifier(hence the increased voltage). It however is not over unity in any way. It is similar to a kort nozzle, or even a jet, but happening in an electrical field.

Originally posted by tgidkp
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

there is a very distinct electrical potential within any physical compression wave.

It would really help if you give an example. You are speaking of "very distinct" potential, so you must be acutely aware of how and when this potential is produced. Are you up to it?

Originally posted by Metatronin
I have found that the rodin coil is actually an electrical pressure amplifier

How did you find this? With what tools? Specifically, what pressure you are talking about?

It is similar to a kort nozzle, or even a jet, but happening in an electrical field.

Jet? What jet?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I believe I wrote to Mr. Nunez on YouTube, advising him on a few deficiencies in his measurements. He kindly replied saying that he was going to acquire some equipment that he didn't have, and which would be helpful in his experiments. There were a few flaws in his measurements that I pointed out.

It's pretty bad when instead of readily available tools that can measure and characterize electrical phenomena there is a bunch of LEDs. Any sort of precision goes out of the window. For example, in one case that Nunez included in one of his videos, what was supposed to be low voltage lighted a neon lamp (if I remember correctly). However, in the circuit that he was using, there are many potential sources of high voltage transients (spikes) that would readily explain that observation. For some reason he's oblivious to this pretty basic feature of the bulb that he's using.

Nunez seems like a smart enough guy, and it's bothering me that he eschews fairly obvious measurements and methods. Willful ignorance.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I made a rodin coil. While the amperage stays the same, voltage is increased. Amperage is electrical flow, while voltage is electrical pressure(basic electricity theory). I am using the principles of a kort nozzle or jet to illustrate what seems to be happening in the coil. If the voltage is increased even though the wire wrapping is on a 1:1 scale, something is affecting the voltage. Normally this should act as any normal decoupling transformer used in any electrical circuit such as a decoupling transformer used in a hi-fi audio set up to decouple the speakers from the amplifier. But, voltage is increased. My only guess would be magnetic standing waves(due to the shape) adding pressure into the system(or maybe some form of feedback loop?). Again the amps(current volume) stays the same, but voltage(electrical pressure) is increased.

This can be seen by powering LEDs in series. For example:
if you have a 3 volt 100mA power source and LEDs that take 3v@50mA you can connect 2 LEDs in series and have both light up. Run that same power source through the rodin coil and you can now connect 4 LEDs. Two pairs of LEDs in series, connected in parallel(I'm assuming you know how LEDs can be connected without visual aids?). This is now possible as the coil is outputting 6V@100mA.

I only made the coil to play around with a diaphragm-less speaker, which is what I currently use it for. It just looks cool. I messed about with some of the stuff I saw others doing with them on the Internet but came to the conclusion that its just a well designed step-up transformer of unusual design. They have high inductance for the small amount of wire actually used as compared to a normal transformer.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I believe I wrote to Mr. Nunez on YouTube, advising him on a few deficiencies in his measurements. He kindly replied saying that he was going to acquire some equipment that he didn't have, and which would be helpful in his experiments. There were a few flaws in his measurements that I pointed out.

He has something like 50 videos so I'm not sure which one you replied to, but he's talking about different frequencies, and resonances, which means his waveforms may not be sinusoidal.

He specifically said the expensive meter he had problems with was an "RMS" meter (which means Root Mean Square for the non-technical). This type of meter is designed to give an accurate measurement only if the waveform is sinusoidal. An oscilloscope will show if the waveform is sinusoidal or not, and if it's not, the expensive meter will not give an accurate measurement. If you create a complex enough waveform it can actually be quite challenging to make accurate measurements with off-the-shelf meters, but the NASA engineers Nelson and House who want to confirm electromagnetic over unity devices came up with a way to get around all the measurement problems.

They ask the device output be hooked up to a motor which turns a shaft with a string around it attached to a weight. Then simply lift the weight while making measurements as described below:

This is one simple way to confirm if the device may actually be over-unity, because it gets around some of the electrical measurement problems which can be so complex they may be beyond the grasp of many amateurs, by using a method which is so simple any amateur can do it.

NASA scientists Nelson & House willing to verify overunity electromagnetic machines

...Also, the designer needs to test their motor under a known mechanical load. If they don’t have a dynamometer available, then the simplest way to do this is to simply have their motor lift a known weight by winding a string or flexible cable of some sort around a spindle. This will serve as their homemade “dynamometer” if you will. We need to know the amount of weight lifted, the height the weight is lifted and the speed the weight is lift to get an output power measurement. Normally the speed is determined by the RPM’s of the output spindle. So, if the designer knows the height lifted with each RPM then all we need to know is the RPM’s of the spindle (not the motor if gear ratios are involved) to have the lifting speed.

The designer needs to measure the amount of current and voltage being delivered to their motor with a digital oscilloscope. We can recommend a brand and model. The oscilloscope needs to be adjusted such that a few cycles of the motor operation are captured within the oscilloscope screen. The voltage and current levels need to be adjusted to fill up the oscilloscope screen so that details of the input voltage and current can clearly be seen. Additionally and most important of all, the data values that are plotted on the oscilloscope screen need to be captured and saved to a CSV file so that they may be analyzed in a spreadsheet. We use Microsoft Excel spreadsheet to do this analysis.

Now the designer needs to perform several tests with their motor. We need to see this data captured when their motor is under no load to see how fast the motor will spin with no load. We need to see how much current and voltage their motor requires when they apply full power and prevent the motor from spinning and then we need to see their data when the motor is doing work by lifting a weight at a constant speed.

....A lot of people fool themselves into thinking that they have an over unity engine when they improperly measure the current and voltage across an isolated coil in their motor schematic.

This last sentence applies to many well-meaning over-unity inventors who don't fully understand the measurements, and have just fooled themselves. It's happened many times in the past and will continue to happen. But thanks to Nelson and House there is a simple means any amateur can employ to measure the output by lifting a weight, where they don't even need to know the output waveform and it doesn't really matter how complicated it is. But they still want to see the input waveform which requires an oscilloscope.

If Nunez or anyone else get these NASA engineers to confirm their device is over unity, that would give them quite a big credibility boost. They seem genuinely eager to find something that really works.

Originally posted by Metatronin
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I made a rodin coil. While the amperage stays the same, voltage is increased. Amperage is electrical flow, while voltage is electrical pressure(basic electricity theory).

As you can see from the discussion on this page, using LEDs is not a valid way to measure anything. One reasons for that is that the LED (and any other type of a diode) is a highly non-linear device. What you get out of the coil could be a very complex form with spikes, as a result of loading it with a diode.

Oscilloscope is your friend. It never ceases to amaze me how people plug in LEDs or even multimeters into the circuit and claim to have measured anything. None of these would work properly. Welcome to electronics... and come prepared.

Originally posted by beebs
Compare it with alchemy, Keely, Dale Pond, Pauli, Tesla, etc.

You still cannot deny that he 'fits the curve' with all of the others I mentioned in my previous post.

I check the Pure Energy Systems website often and the follow-up research I did after reading the article "REPORT: Tesla Days -- Philadelphia Conference 2012" has led me to a very interesting YouTube video and a .pdf file of a screenplay about Tesla.

This section of the article caught my eye, as it relates to the suppression I have posted about:

Leslie Baird
Heretical Physics

Some of her biggest projects have involved working with Tesla Coils to investigate the fundamental structure of matter. Less than 1/3rd of power typically enters the secondary coil. A billion watts will vaporize most wires, so she got rid of wires altogether.

She refused to consider applying her research to weapons development which began a period of persecution. That ended up with her being put in prison for 10 years on charges of operating a meth lab – something none of her equipment could have helped accomplish. After her term she was prohibited from working in physics. Only recently has she become available to promote her book and associate with other scientists.

Physics and quantum mechanics contain many fundamental mistakes. “Students don't even notice when their reality checks bounce.” These errors in conventional physics literally lead to dead ends when trying to build better systems of all kinds. She has written a book correcting these misconceptions entitled “The Prison Lecture Series in Heretical Physics”, available as a CD-ROM. Rather than attempt to summarize the book or quote extensively, we encourage students of physics to obtain the disk and see for themselves how coherent and useful her work really is.

I have been in contact with Leslie Baird in order to order her CD. In her response she gave me the title of a YouTube video about her work, "THE LESLIE COIL - a James Jaeger Film":

Uploaded by OriginalIntentDoc on Oct 17, 2011

The largest horizontal Tesla Coil in the world -- know as "The Leslie Coil" -- can produce up to 2 million volts. Built by electrical engineer-particle physicist, Leslie Baird of Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania, a direct descendent of Michael Faraday. The Leslie Coil was recently acquired by Nikola Lonchar, president of the Tesla Science Foundation, the largest Tesla Society in the United States.

THE LESLIE COIL is hosted by Tesla Science Foundation board member, George Burden, and was directed and edited by James Jaeger (FIAT EMPIRE) and produced by Ted Pollard.

Also see www.PoetOfElectricity.com

The URL for Poet of Electricity doesn't work but by using google I found the URL for another YouTube video "TESLA - The Poet of Electricity (trailer)," and the URL for an excerpt of the screenplay, which is a good read: "TESLA - The Poet of Electricity by James Jaeger."

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I check the Pure Energy Systems website often and the follow-up research I did after reading the article "REPORT: Tesla Days -- Philadelphia Conference 2012" has led me to a very interesting YouTube video and a .pdf file of a screenplay about Tesla.

Oh what a source. One short paragraph on Theremin contains at least 3 major falsehoods.

Theremin (the instrument) is NOT the basis of most synthesizers. Sheer nonsense.
Knowledge of Theremin (instrument) was never lost.They were built, in particular, by RCA in the United States.
Leon Theremin was freed from prison camp in the USSR in 1947. He worked for the KGB until 1966.
There are many professional musicians who use or used Theremin in performance and studio work extensively. If one hasn't heard of Led Zeppelin, they really lived under a rock for 40 years.

And that Leslie person... She announces a CD that apparently doesn't exist... Then she announces a link that doesn't work...And there is no telling what she discovered about the "fundamental structure of matter" using the equipment in her garage.

Junk.

reply to post by Mary Rose

Mary I don't know whether to compliment you or to wonder if you're slipping, so I guess I'll do both.

It seems like most of the stuff you've posted in this thread has been selected for its nonconformity with mainstream science, but that video is as far as I can recall probably the most mainstream thing you've posted in this thread. Hence the compliment for posting something that's actually something real. I'm not sure you meant to do that though, which is why I wonder if you're slipping?

Leslie Baird made one brief comment that was "off", about science not recognizing that space has properties and she was trying to show that space has properties with her research. Of course science does recognize that space has properties, which is why this was an odd comment. She apparently had more odd things to say but she refused to say them! The interviewer asked her to elaborate and she refused.

Having a million volts arcing though your basement would be pretty cool, right? I wished the interviewer had asked her about her electric bill...she had a larger electrical service installed to get enough electricity to power that coil!

I'm a little concerned for her though; did you catch that nasty cough she has? And did you hear the interviewer say "smell the ozone" after she ran the coil? I can't help but wonder if that ozone might either be the cause of, or be exacerbating her cough, as concentrations of ozone like that aren't very good for one's health. The very least she should have done was install a ventilation system to exhaust the ozone, but I didn't see one. However from your post it sounds like she sold the coil to Nikola Lonchar, so maybe she doesn't have to worry about the ozone any more? If you're thinking of building one of these coils, be careful about that ozone!

Thanks for posting something that I enjoyed (and maybe I should thank Leslie for not elaborating, as that decision probably improved the video).

ETA:

Originally posted by buddhasystem
And that Leslie person... She announces a CD that apparently doesn't exist... Then she announces a link that doesn't work...And there is no telling what she discovered about the "fundamental structure of matter" using the equipment in her garage.

I couldn't get that link to work either. I think she discovered that breathing ozone isn't good for your lungs?

reply to post by Arbitrageur


In all seriousness, ozone is a ruthless carcinogen. If Leslie was a scientist, she would have invested in a proper ventilation system. You see, even a "harmless" photocopier poses a significant health risk due to ozone.

I've known this for a long time, and tried to clear the area once I'm done with my copy, or stay outside of the copy room while the machine was in operation.

Never mind gigantic discharges from a large high-voltage coils, that will sure f*ck you up real bad.

My oscilloscope showed a basic DC waveform. I didn't use it with AC or anything like that. What exactly are you looking for in the waveform?

Originally posted by Metatronin
My oscilloscope showed a basic DC waveform. I didn't use it with AC or anything like that. What exactly are you looking for in the waveform?

What does the basic DC waveform look like on the oscilloscope? Can you describe it's appearance?

Typically I use the oscilloscope for non-DC (either AC or other types of non-DC). If looking at an AC waveform I want to see how sinusoidal it is before I try to measure it with an RMS meter, because I know if it's not sinusoidal, the meter can give strange (inaccurate) results.

A DC waveform just looks like a line. Where as a LED waveform can vary depending on how much power it receives, at 50% power it almost looks like a square wave but with staggered dips and peaks(as the LED is either on or off). At full or near full power there can be one small dip or none at all. I mostly use my scope to find errant AC noise in homemade audio circuits or to check stuff out on micro controllers. And sometimes to find bad parts in a circuit. I'm not really into the supposed over unity stuff because there are no clear instructions as to what is actually happening in the circuit. I tried the LED thing out because I have a ton of them laying around and took a few minutes to breadboard. Again, I only built the coil to use as a speaker. It's visually impressive when there is no apparent moving parts but still making decent sound. It confuses the heck out of friends.

Originally posted by Metatronin
A DC waveform just looks like a line. Where as a LED waveform can vary depending on how much power it receives, at 50% power it almost looks like a square wave but with staggered dips and peaks(as the LED is either on or off). At full or near full power there can be one small dip or none at all.

OK a straight line is how I'd expect it to look but I don't normally think of that as a "waveform", though I guess you could say it's the simplest waveform of all.

And you identified how LEDs behave when reduced voltage is applied which shows how unreliable they are as power output measurement devices. We want something that behaves in a more linear fashion to get accurate power measurements.

reply to post by buddhasystem

So if I read between the lines in that post can I assume you don't use these ozone generators at home? I saw an infomercial quite a few years ago and I almost fell off my chair when I realized that the device they were selling to clean your air and improve your health by making "good oxygen" (they NEVER used the word Ozone but they said enough to deduce that's what it was) was an ozone generator! It has limited value in cleaning the air and probably does a lot more to damage your health than to improve it. Their claims were somewhat less megalomaniacal than Rodins, but they made plenty of insinuations abot how much this ozone generator would improve your life.

The EPA has a bulletin out about these things:
Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners

Ozone generators that are sold as air cleaners intentionally produce the gas ozone. Often the vendors of ozone generators make statements and distribute material that lead the public to believe that these devices are always safe and effective in controlling indoor air pollution. For almost a century, health professionals have refuted these claims...

Some vendors suggest that these devices have been approved by the federal government for use in occupied spaces. To the contrary, NO agency of the federal government has approved these devices for use in occupied spaces. Because of these claims, and because ozone can cause health problems at high concentrations, several federal government agencies have worked in consultation with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to produce this public information document.

So I guess all they are doing to protect people from themselves is issue this information document, and they continue to let people sell ozone generators.

I've heard the saying before "what she doesn't know won't hurt her". Unfortunately innocent consumers buying these devices that make "good oxygen" who don't know that really means "ozone" may be harmed by those devices, and apparently the authorities aren't trying to protect them from themselves or their ignorance, so what you don't know really CAN hurt you if you install a "good oxygen" generator.

Most of these small units probably generate less ozone than Leslie Baird's Tesla coil which I'd expect produced some fairly high ozone concentrations.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

"Lightning makes a lot of noise."

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

So if I read between the lines in that post can I assume you don't use these ozone generators at home? I saw an infomercial quite a few years ago and I almost fell off my chair when I realized that the device they were selling to clean your air and improve your health by making "good oxygen" (they NEVER used the word Ozone but they said enough to deduce that's what it was) was an ozone generator! It has limited value in cleaning the air and probably does a lot more to damage your health than to improve it.

Truth be told, we bought an "ionic pro" filter a few years ago and then returned it to the store a few weeks later. I thought that was an electrostatic filter, and indeed it was, and did a really good job removing dust from the air. But my sweet Lord, did it produce ozone... The whole house smelled like Tesla coil. So back it went.

In retrospect, I would have kept it and would just run it downstairs overnight (we sleep upstairs). It kills every smell (I assume by breaking up molecules of all those organic compounds responsible for kitchen smell), and I'm pretty sure it's pretty Gothic on bacteria in the air and surfaces. But it's plain toxic, it gave me burn in the lungs a few times. As I said, as a sanitizing device that runs at night it may have its value.

Since then, they introduced catalytic afterburners that convert ozone back to O2. I mean, this was a clear health risk.

I do have a small plug-in unit in the kitchen. It picks up an amazing amount of oil aerosol from the air.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Since then, they introduced catalytic afterburners that convert ozone back to O2. I mean, this was a clear health risk.

That might have been something Leslie Baird could have used too, as an alternative to ventilation.

I don't know if you read the EPA advisory I linked to or not, but they seem to endorse the decontamination properties of ozone (meaning it's good at killing things, like bacteria, and maybe a few lung cells?).

They were far more reserved about the odor reducing properties and even mentioned some side effects of the odor reduction when it does occur.. But if a device creates the ozone in a box and converts it back to O2 before it left the box so you didn't have to breathe excess ozone, I would consider using something like that, especially if I was worried about bacteria, mold, fungi, etc, though I don't have any concerns like that right now. In more humid locations I did.

And obviously the contractor's ozone generators designed to kill mold in a structure when there are no occupants inside can be very effective (it uses concentrations far higher than are safe to breathe), so I guess this is along the lines of running a unit in the downstairs while you sleep upstairs, though central heat or air could redistribute the ozone.

Here's an interesting factoid I ran across: Apparently California decided to put safety limits on ozone generated by ozone generators sold in CA: www.arb.ca.gov...

So does Janesco claim to meet these safety limits with their residential units? Not as far as I can tell, they say they won't ship to California! I suppose some manufacturers may but I didn't really research it that far, as I'm not really in the market for an air cleaner.

By the way good old charcoal works pretty well at odor reduction, in an air cleaner that uses a charcoal prefilter in addition to a HEPA filter. I have no idea if it's better or worse than ozone at odor reduction, but I'm pretty sure the air coming out of the charcoal filter is safe to breathe.