"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

reply to post by Arbitrageur

1. Has the demo in question been linked to? What demo?
   
2. According to what video?
   

Edit to add: I've figured out now you were talking about one of the Mallove interview videos I posted.
I remember Mallove saying the Choreas are working on a theory and welcome input from others, since their theory is "not perfect."

My question to you is, "So what?"

Mallove made it clear that there are accurate predictions, for example experiments involving accelerators, using Einstein's equations, but that doesn't mean the theory is correct. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

From infinite-energy.com "LENR and "Cold Fusion" Excess Heat: Their Relation to Other Anomalous Microphysical Energy Experiments and Emerging New Energy Technologies":

•2000 September (Paulo and Alexandra Correa) in their “Overview of the Aurora Biophysics Research Institute (ABRI) Effort” at www.aetherometry.com:

“More than 75 years after Einstein began the first of his several unsuccessful attempts to unify Physics by proposing a field theory that would integrate electrodynamics and gravitation, existing Physics remains unable not just to complete this task but, still more fundamentally, impotent to understand such basic functions as the nature of heat, mass, charge, inertia, potential, or electric, magnetic and gravitational fields or wavefunctions. . . .

I think this is what we should focus on now.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
If Burzynski gains FDA approval, will he still be practicing alternative medicine?

The term "alternative medicine" has come into being because of the corrupt FDA and medical establishment (the AMA and medical schools) which are unduly influenced by the Rockefeller Foundation. The system in the United States is also corrupt because corporations virtually control the government through campaign contributions and lobbyists. It used to be the FDA would do the testing on pharmaceutical drugs before they went on the market, for example. Now, the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to pay for the studies, which is intrinsically a system that is set up to fail the public.

If the people in the United States were to take back their government, and testing and regulation were to be put into the hands of that government funded only by taxpayer money, we probably eventually would no longer need the term "alternative medicine."

Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by buddhasystem
I'll skip the rest of mumbo-jumbo.

Perhaps because you've never sought answers to such questions?

No, because I never engaged in pompous posturing like this:

How can all these researchers speak so much of the electron and have so little idea of what the beast is actually like?

Sure, Mrs.Correa. Only YOU have the right idea. The scientists are all morons but look at you, you can run a generator using the force of orgasm. The rest, they have no idea what the electron is.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Mallove made it clear that there are accurate predictions, for example experiments involving accelerators, using Einstein's equations, but that doesn't mean the theory is correct.

To claim the theory is not correct one must point out an experimental fact that goes against it. Just saying "Einstein was wrong because I have a hunch" smacks of idiocy.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
From infinite-energy.com "LENR and "Cold Fusion" Excess Heat: Their Relation to Other Anomalous Microphysical Energy Experiments and Emerging New Energy Technologies":

•2000 September (Paulo and Alexandra Correa) in their “Overview of the Aurora Biophysics Research Institute (ABRI) Effort” at www.aetherometry.com:

“More than 75 years after Einstein began the first of his several unsuccessful attempts to unify Physics by proposing a field theory that would integrate electrodynamics and gravitation, existing Physics remains unable not just to complete this task but, still more fundamentally, impotent to understand such basic functions as the nature of heat, mass, charge, inertia, potential, or electric, magnetic and gravitational fields or wavefunctions. . . .

I think this is what we should focus on now.

I think you should focus on developing critical thinking skills. It's an important skill set, often discussed by parents, in fora dedicated to early education. Mr. and Mrs. Correa are able to drive their cars and post their meaningless verbal cr@p on the Internet solely because there is a fairly deep understanding "of heat, mass, charge, inertia, potential, or electric, magnetic and gravitational fields or wavefunctions" -- and that understanding was not developed by them. No theory if perfect but to bash the body of knowledge to which you owe pretty much all of your lifestyle is just rich of you.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
If Burzynski gains FDA approval, will he still be practicing alternative medicine?

The term "alternative medicine" has come into being because of the corrupt FDA and medical establishment (the AMA and medical schools) which are unduly influenced by the Rockefeller Foundation.

The term "alternative" has an intrinsic meaning "outside of realm of science". That's what Arb was asking... Once you have a controlled experiment and the "cure" works, and the side effects are deemed acceptable, it's not longer "alternative" because there is a hard proof and that forms the basis of practical use.

It used to be the FDA would do the testing on pharmaceutical drugs before they went on the market, for example.

Testing new drugs can be extremely expensive and can take a lot of time. Now, if FDA would be tasked with doing that, its budget would have to be increased by an insane factor and you would be the first to complain about the gargantuan govt bureaucracy that you would say is out to suppress all things "alternative".

Now, the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to pay for the studies, which is intrinsically a system that is set up to fail the public.

If the study is flawed or deficient or even fraudulent, FDA will make sure the perpetrators are prosecuted. In case you didn't read the news, there is a continuous stream of litigation, which does help to keep the pharma in line. And I would say yes, the drug companies should carry the risk of investing into studies with no guaranteed outcome. That's industry, after all.

If the people in the United States were to take back their government, and testing and regulation were to be put into the hands of that government funded only by taxpayer money, we probably eventually would no longer need the term "alternative medicine."

As has been posted already, the taxpayer is already on the hook for paying for the research into "alternative" methods, which is widely viewed as a waste of money.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I believe he told the truth in the above passage.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
A better perspective is to be uncertain if cold fusion really exists or not, and examine the experimental evidence in a neutral fashion, and let the evidence reveal whatever it reveals.

Of course!

I didn't mean he pre-decided the day he was born. But he pre-decided at some point in time with insufficient evidence, and no I can't tell you the exact day. You don't deny that at some point, he claimed cold fusion was proven do you?

My claim is that the jury on cold fusion is still out, even today, meaning it still hasn't been proven true or false. And it certainly hasn't gone commercial yet as Mallove claimed. That would truly be proof of some unexplained energy source even if the fusion or other mechanism still wasn't understood.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

“More than 75 years after Einstein began the first of his several unsuccessful attempts to unify Physics by proposing a field theory that would integrate electrodynamics and gravitation, existing Physics remains unable not just to complete this task ..

I think this is what we should focus on now.

Speaking of unified theories, I recently watched Lisi's TED presentation on his theory of everything. He calls it a beautiful theory and I'd agree with that description, except I'd call it a hypothesis.

Garrett Lisi: A beautiful new theory of everything


In addition, I like the fact that he's humble enough to admit that his "theory" along with most other theories, will prove to be wrong, and it's the exception rather than the rule that someone comes up with a new theory that's actually correct.

Mary, I really think you should consider his words. Most of the new ideas are wrong. Lisi even admits his own idea is probably wrong and I suspect he's right about that. His humbleness is quite refreshing. Now if only Correa could admit his theory is probably wrong too!

Originally posted by Mary Rose
If the people in the United States were to take back their government, and testing and regulation were to be put into the hands of that government funded only by taxpayer money, we probably eventually would no longer need the term "alternative medicine."

Does that answer your question?

Not really. What phase of testing do you think should be funded by taxpayers? I, II, II, or all three? What if some taxpayers don't want to pay for all that testing?

And if the FDA is as corrupt as you suggest, why do they reject more than they accept? 60% of drugs that passed phase III don't even make it to market:

www.wikinvest.com...

Out of 10,000 initial promising compounds, 40 will pass through the basic research stage. One in four will pass pre-clinical screening and begin clinical trials as "Investigational New Drugs," or "INDs." Approximately one in three of those will pass through Phases I and II, and only one in four INDs will pass all three Phases. Finally, only one in ten INDs will ultimately be sold to consumers after FDA review (i.e. 40% of drugs that pass Phase III will make it to the market).

As someone who has never taken any drugs other than an occasional aspirin (I bought one bottle of aspirin in my life, and it's still 1/3 full) and at the most one week of antibiotics per decade (the last of which I didn't either want or need but my dentist refused to take full responsibility for the success of my root canal unless I took the antibiotics), I'm not crazy about my taxes going to pay for things I never use. However the people that use drugs can pay for them, and that's sort of the way it works. It's not totally free to the taxpayers, as the FDA still has to review over 100,000 pages of documentation for drugs submitted for FDA review after phase III, but I think it's better than saddling taxpayers with the huge total cost.

Also I've had dealings with the FDA, on the food side rather than the drug side, and I can say that private industry is probably more efficient and competent than the government agency anyway. You've seen all the lawyers constantly advertising for participants in class action lawsuits against drug makers where adverse reactions have been observed? Even if the company might have some financial incentive to let safety slip a little initially, the threat of class action lawsuits like that also gives them financial incentive to keep safety a priority.

And as expensive as drug testing is even in private industry, can you imagine how much more bloated the costs would be in a government bureaucracy? They are the ones who paid $435 for a claw hammer, and $640 for a toilet seat (probably twice that in today's dollars), and you want to turn the testing over to them? I can't imagine why you'd want to do that. I think the FDA has enough to do reviewing the 100,000 page application.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
. . . it's a little different for a qualified psychologist to be making claims about the Orgone energy.

Reich was a psychiatrist.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
However I find Reich's claims of "Orgone Energy" to be beyond far fetched.

Reich's work is poorly understood overall. Having your writings burned doesn't help that. And being arrested and put in prison on trumped up charges.

Anyway, Mallove mentions that prior to being exposed to the work of the Correas he had no interest in Reich himself.

Again:

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Yes, Reich's work is central to understanding free energy technology. This is discussed here:

Part 8 is especially relevant to the present discussion:

and:

Originally posted by Mary Rose

In Part 7, it is brought out that the Michelson-Morley experiment only established that there is no electromagnetic aether. Reich's experiments, on the other hand, revealed a mass-free plenum. Reich did a simple experiment using a mercury thermometer on the surface of a Faraday cage and a similar thermometer suspended in air. In 1941, Reich had a 4 1/2 hour meeting with Einstein about this, but the meeting is not generally known because it is virtually absent from Einstein biographies:

The discussion about Reich begins at 7:00.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Reich's work is poorly understood overall.

Besides orgone, another topic that is poorly understood is pleomorphic microbial organisms, another topic that Reich is associated with. Read about this in:

Originally posted by Mary Rose
"To Be or Not to Be - 150 Years of Hidden Knowledge"

reply to post by beebs

There is a very clear and logical path Reich developed throughout his work - just as there is for Feynman, Schrödinger, Einstein, etc.

You realize that Schrödinger's cat was an attempt at satire, right? I'm pretty sure Schrödinger would slap you if he knew you were touting it around as an example of logic.

I don't know, maybe you're talking about something else he did.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
. . . you would be the first to complain about the gargantuan govt bureaucracy that you would say is out to suppress all things "alternative".

Do not presume that you can speak for me.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
If the study is flawed or deficient or even fraudulent, FDA will make sure the perpetrators are prosecuted.

As I have pointed out before, the FDA as it exists under the present system is hopelessly corrupt. There is a revolving door between big pharma and the FDA.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
And I would say yes, the drug companies should carry the risk of investing into studies with no guaranteed outcome. That's industry, after all.

Health is not an industry, however. It is the job of the government to protect the public welfare against the interests of corporations in their job, which is profits. In the present system, the huge profits made by the pharmaceutical industry more than makes it worth any investment in "studies" as contracted for by big pharma.

reply to post by Mary Rose


Hey, Mary. I'm pretty sure that I'm outclassed by Buddha and arb here, but I've been around the geo-engineering forum enough to comment on, the fool, Wilhelm Reich.

Did you know that his *cancer curing technology also helps stave off chemtrails?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you're somehow looking to Reich for validation of Rodin's claims, then you have only helped discredit Rodin.



*Completely unsubstantiated claims

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
. . . it's a little different for a qualified psychologist to be making claims about the Orgone energy.

Reich was a psychiatrist.

So we can safely dismiss his claims of orgone efficacy when applied in different fields? I may agree, actually, that sitting in a metal-plated outhouse can have a therapeutic effect on a person... Calm, contemplation etc.

Reich's work is poorly understood overall. Having your writings burned doesn't help that.

Oh God, another excuse... A quick search on Amazon reveals that it's chock-full of Reich's books, including "The Function of the Orgasm: Discovery of the Orgone". It's all out there for everyone to read, and if it sounds idiotic to most people, that's not their problem.

Reich did a simple experiment using a mercury thermometer on the surface of a Faraday cage and a similar thermometer suspended in air. In 1941, Reich had a 4 1/2 hour meeting with Einstein about this, but the meeting is not generally known because it is virtually absent from Einstein biographies

en.wikipedia.org...

However, one of Einstein's assistants pointed out that the temperature was lower on the floor than on the ceiling.[53] Following that remark, Einstein modified the experiment and, as a result, concluded that the effect was simply due to the temperature gradient inside the room.[54] He wrote back to Reich, describing his experiments and expressing the hope that Reich would develop a more skeptical approach.[55]

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
But he pre-decided at some point in time with insufficient evidence, and no I can't tell you the exact day.

So, what you meant to say was that Mallove decided without evidence.

You're talking about evidence as reported by the mainstream establishment, I presume.

Mallove did his own research.

It is clear, however, that he was a cold fusion enthusiast but he started from the position of being a hot fusion enthusiast as of March 23, 1989 when F&P made their announcement.

His book Fire from Ice was published in 1991. Did he say cold fusion was proven? I don't know; I haven't read the book or read a review of it.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
And it certainly hasn't gone commercial yet as Mallove claimed.

I vaguely remember seeing that but I'm not sure what the context was. Can you post the link?

Originally posted by GringoViejo
Did you know that his *cancer curing technology also helps stave off chemtrails?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, what you're saying is, that, Reich "the fool" spoke out on chemtrails?

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Mallove did his own research.

Mallove did not do "research". He made an interpretation of a graph prepared by others. For all I know, Arb has addressed this interpretation on the previous pages and found it w/o much merit, and looking at it, I would agree.

His book Fire from Ice was published in 1991. Did he say cold fusion was proven? I don't know; I haven't read the book or read a review of it.

From the book:
It is now reasonably clear that fusion reactions that liberate energy...can occur at room temperature

From the book review:
Mallove is a firm believer in the cold fusion phenomenon

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by GringoViejo
Did you know that his *cancer curing technology also helps stave off chemtrails?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

So, what you're saying is, that, Reich "the fool" spoke out on chemtrails?

Why not just read the link, Mary. I'm sure you would find it enlightening.

The only thing I'm saying is that Reich is a fool.

reply to post by buddhasystem

1. The point is, he was a psychiatrist, not a psychologist. He was also a researcher.
   
2. Thanks to the internet, Reich's work is being re-discovered at this time. However, universities and textbooks have not caught on yet, (if they ever will), I would surmise.
   
3. If the topic is controversial, it has been my experience that Wikipedia is not a reliable source - much like the mainstream media.
   

reply to post by GringoViejo


Can you focus on the question I asked you?

Someone on ATS making a claim about Reich's work in regard to chemtrails has nothing to do with what Reich would have written or said about the subject.