"Vortex Based Mathematics by Marko Rodin"

From PESWiki: "Directory:Suppression"

Overview
This page is a compilation of specific cases in which the emergence of a new energy technology development is impaired in some way by an entity outside themselves, whether it be a competing interest such as an oil interest or an oppressive government, or some other faction whose control over the people or whose monopolistic income will be impaired by the emergence of the technology. There are however some hopeful signs that a new succesful physics theory might deter the government's misrecognition.

Maintained by
This compilation is maintained primarily by New Energy Congress member, Gary Vesperman. An update has just been posted (Download (1 Mb doc); Sept. 3, 2007) and needs to be integrated into the index below, with sub-pages created where necessary, to keep this index abbreviated. . . .

Statistics

As of Aug. 24, 2007

Energy Invention Suppression Case Statistics

Number of Energy Invention Suppression Incidents – 96

Number of Dead, Missing, or Injured Energy Inventors, Activists, and Associates – 20

Number of Energy Inventors and Associates Threatened with Death – 31

Number of Energy Researchers and Associates Imprisoned or Falsely Charged – 5

Number of Incidents of Energy Invention Suppression by the United States Government, Patent Office, Central Intelligence Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Marshals, Army, Air Force, Navy, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, Defense Intelligence Agency, S.W.A.T. Teams, National Security Agency, U.S. Postal Service, Department of Energy, Department of State, Securities and Exchange Commission, Food and Drug Administration, Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, Internal Revenue Service, Rural Electrification Administration, White House, Consumer Product Safety Commission, and Small Business Administration – 58

Number of Inventions Classified Secret by U.S. Patent Office – 5000

Number of Incidents Involving Oil Companies – 9 . . .

reply to post by Mary Rose

I went to that link and there were 58 suppression instances listed. I didn't see any separate listing of deaths. I don't have time to go though all 58, but I just picked the first one on the list (OrionProject) to look at a specific case.

First, even if you believe what these guys are saying, I think you can learn something from them:

www.theorionproject.org...

With any technology, it is crucial to follow the scientific method of evaluation. There are inventors who say they have technologies that work, but they do not know how they work. Over the years, Dr. Greer has uncovered many frauds. An example has to do with one technology that Dr. Greer and Dr. Loder were called to evaluate. This was brought from another country and was actually a circuit embedded in a plastic resin that appeared to be pulling energy from the zero point or ether. The late Eugene Mallove, PhD (MIT - he is the scientist who blew the whistle on the distortion of cold fusion data and the coverup) was also involved in this evaluation.

It turned out that this technology was actually a clever circuit that was tricking the meters and causing what is known as a power phase angle shift (the electronics people know what this means), but the bottom line is that many people had sunk money into this, and it was a clever fraud. This is why we require transparency. We are professionals. We have very professional engineers. We do not wish to be involved in a sleight of hand trick.

I think you need to let that sink in. I think they are describing what Bearden, Bedini, and many others have found a way to do which is to "trick a meter" or something very similar to that, perhaps sometimes without even realizing what they are doing.

There are simple ways around this problem like using the output to run a dynamometer (or to power a motor to run a dynamometer if it's all electric). So this is basically where these things all seem to fall apart if they are unintentional frauds as opposed to intentional frauds.

Now on to the specifics of this case:

He confirmed to Dr. Bravo that he planned to finish the device he was working on and come to work with us in the future. But then, over a course of six days, he changed his stance from "Yes, I'm anxious and excited about working with you guys" to "No, I can't work with you."... Apparently, he was getting disinformation - because he had previously mentioned multiple times that we had been thoroughly checked out by the Intelligence Community before he was allowed to sign a contract with us.

First, they just talked about transparency, but they don't provide any here because this individual at the heart of this claim is unnamed. Therefore it's impossible to verify the claim.

However let's assume for a moment that we are willing to accept this claim that he changed his mind about working with them. That can happen for any number of reasons, right? I can even offer one that might apply in this case:

We have some very qualified engineers who understand the complexity and the urgency of the situation. Dr. Greer, Dr. Loder, Dr. Bravo, and these engineers are volunteering their time and energy.

So, note that Dr. Greer is affiliated with this project. Around this same time frame Dr Greer was involved in very questionable activities that even open-minded people found disconcerting. I had to dig through the ATS hoax bin to find this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by SmokeJaguar67
I am the first to admit that I so open minded that I often trip over my brainstem but for the life of me I see nothing in those photographs that indicates to me that what I am straining to see is an extraterrestrial.

The alien is just a part of the surrounding, foliage I am sure of it.
I like Greer but he has just shot himself and anyone associated with him through the foot with a howitzer in my opinion.

So there you might have a reason someone might not want to work with Greer or be affiliated with him in any way. He's posting pictures of plants and bugs and claiming they are aliens:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
It appears that this plant:

Originally posted by Kandinsky

may be what he photographed at night and then claimed it was an alien (from the OP of that HOAX thread):


Now who in their right mind would want to move forward with a decision to affiliate themselves with Dr. Greer after they saw him doing crazy stuff like this? If there really were some guys that bailed, I think I know why, just look at the pictures, they are worth a thousand words.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I went to that link and there were 58 suppression instances listed. I didn't see any separate listing of deaths.

I have a suggestion for you: Open the document in Word, use the Find function, and type "killed."

Originally posted by Mary Rose
But if I post on it, I guess you'll go into ridicule mode and there will be a new round of here a fraud, there a fraud, everywhere a fraud, fraud...

Mary,

Please note the ProjectOrion quote in my previous post.

They are the ones who claim they have the ability to bring free energy technology to the market, and they are also saying that they see many cases of fraud. So even if you don't believe me that there's lots of fraud, you should believe them, right?

reply to post by Mary Rose

Sheesh these "killed" claims are even shakier, for example (from your link):

Dean Warwick killed during lecture - Alternative energy pioneer (site) and intelligence insider from New Zealand keeled over dead last weekend in the middle of a presentation in which he had promised to make some momentous announcements.

www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk...

The eccentric New Zealander, who had lived in a converted church in Kelso with his wife Jean for 20 years, dropped dead of a suspected heart attack on October 7, in the middle of his address at a conference staged by the organisation, Probe International, in Blackpool.

He died in plain sight, how is that being "killed"? And his wife doesn't seem to think he was killed, and apparently she's offended by the claims he was killed:

X-files expert dies at conspiracy conference as he tells audience: "I'll name the Antichrist".

"He was starting to hit his stride with his speech and got to the point when he was about to reveal who was behind Bobby Kennedy's murder, the name of the Antichrist and more.

"He never did, though. With the words, 'Bear with me for a moment', Dean leaned with his left elbow on a nearby table with his right arm across his body before keeling over flat on his face." But last night, Dean's devastated widow Jean - who starred in hit TV series The Saint - begged for the speculation he was killed to stop.

The 74-year-old insisted her husband died of a heart attack, adding: "I was not at the conference so I cannot speak for what the people there saw.

"But his death certificate says he died of natural causes and I am satisfied with that. I do not go along with those who are saying he might have been bumped off.

"The coroner confirmed he died of a massive heart attack and that he had a blood clot in his artery. "They tried everything to get him back but he kept slipping away.

People die of heart attacks.

Too bad he didn't live a little longer or he would have told us who the antichrist was.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
So even if you don't believe me that there's lots of fraud, you should believe them, right?

Of course there's lots of fraud.

But what I see you and others doing is assuming everything is fraud because the technology is not on the market. And I see you attacking personalities instead of technology. And the use of ridicule as a debate technique. These are fallacies of reason.

In addition to murders, there are the far more common techniques of threats and harassment that are also covered in this thorough compilation that you have been quick to respond to after a stance that free energy technology has not been suppressed/it's just that the proponents are frauds.

reply to post by Mary Rose


Define "technology". Talking about 3, 6, 9 or how 9 is a particle seems more like metaphysics to me.

reply to post by 547000


I can appreciate that.

In Rodin's case there is no question that metaphysics is involved.

I am still fascinated by his work and I feel that he has credible endorsers, especially Col. Bearden, who has been ridiculed on this thread. In addition to being ridiculed, I feel that the posts about his research into Maxwell's original equations, etc., have been virtually ignored.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I went to that link and there were 58 suppression instances listed.

Which link are you talking about?

In the download link:

Number of Energy Invention Suppression Incidents – 95

reply to post by Mary Rose

The same link, in fact you posted the number 58 yourself, about 5 down from that number.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I have a suggestion for you: Open the document in Word, use the Find function, and type "killed."

I tried that and I didn't come up with 20. and some of the results I got didn't even refer to people being killed.

The 58 are addressed specifically in the article following the summary at the top, which is why I referenced those. Actually the list is numbered up to 59, but the 59th place is to add the next case.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Of course there's lots of fraud.

But what I see you and others doing is assuming everything is fraud because the technology is not on the market. And I see you attacking personalities instead of technology. And the use of ridicule as a debate technique. These are fallacies of reason.

No it's not a fallacy of reason. I posted a picture of a plant and a claim by Greer it was an alien. It would be a fallacy of reason if I said Greer was a hoaxer without any evidence to support that claim, but I provided evidence, therefore it's not a logical fallacy, look it up:

www.wisegeek.com...

an appeal to ridicule does not take the form of a valid or useful argument, because it brings no new information or concrete discussion into the debate.

The photographs are very specific evidence and add information to the topic and do not constitute a logical fallacy. To then conclude that a plant is not an alien is as claimed is also evidentiary, rather than an unsubstantiated attack on character.

Regarding the death I also provided a specific source, a quote from his wife saying that she believes her husband died from a heart attack, and that's what the death certificate says. Again, this is not a character attack, and if his wife is credible then a death certificate and coroner's determination of the cause of death is certainly valid evidence. Yes I included the headline from the article about him saying he was about to reveal who the antichrist was, and yes it sounds ridiculous so one might think it's a form of ridicule, but again from a logical debate perspective, it's not a logical fallacy in this case, because it's a fact provided in the article I quoted.

Now if I had just invented a claim that he might be about to reveal who the antichrist was, then yes that would be a logical fallacy from a debating perspective. But I'm finding I really don't have to ridicule some of these people, many of them make themselves look ridiculous enough when I just restate the facts of the case like the imminent antichrist revelation.

Also no ridicule is really necessary in the case of Bearden either. His website shows a picture of an inexpensive breadboard which he claims produces over unity energy. He isn't powering his house or anything else with it that I'm aware of, despite many years having passed. As Buddhasystem said, all you have to do is connect the dots, the facts speak for themselves without applying any ridicule.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
And I see you attacking personalities instead of technology.

I have to say it again -- if there was a "technology" to attack, that would be interesting. But there is no working prototype that any of these "inventors" can present, hence there is no technology -- let's just be real here. In absence of this, all that there is left is poking at people who walk and talk like charlatans.

And the use of ridicule as a debate technique.

What is there exactly to debate in Rodin's case? I mean, really, he says that the center of his toroidal coil all of a sudden becomes a black hole. If he presented even a slight shred of evidence to this effect, we would be happily debating his measurement techniques, systematic uncertainties of the numbers he would provide etc, i.e. we'd be doing science! However, there is nothing of this sort. He says "I made a black hole" and stops there. It's just a mind-numbing idiocy. Idiocy is no debatable.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


For clarification, from the update, the full Statistics:

Energy Invention Suppression Case Statistics

Number of Energy Invention Suppression Incidents – 95
Number of Dead, Missing, or Injured Energy Inventors, Activists, and Associates – 20
Number of Energy Inventors and Associates Threatened with Death – 32
Number of Energy Researchers and Associates Imprisoned or Falsely Charged – 5
Number of Incidents of Energy Invention Suppression by the United States Government, Patent Office,
Central Intelligence Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Marshals, Army, Air Force,
Navy, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, Defense Intelligence Agency, S.W.A.T. Teams,
National Security Agency, U.S. Postal Service, Department of Energy, Department of State,
Securities and Exchange Commission, Food and Drug Administration, Department of Defense,
Department of Homeland Security, Internal Revenue Service, Rural Electrification Administration,
White House, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Small Business Administration, and
Canada’s Royal Canadian Mounted Police – 59
Number of Inventions Classified Secret by U.S. Patent Office – 5000
Number of Incidents Involving Oil Companies – 9
Names of Companies, Banks, State Agencies, Private Groups, and Universities Involved with Energy
Invention Suppression – Standard Oil, Zapata Petroleum, Atlantic Richfield, Exxon-Mobile,
Shell Oil Company, General Electric Company, Yakuza, California Air Resources Board,
Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, Wells Fargo Bank, Ford Motor Company,
General Motors Corporation, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Queen of England,
Kollmorgan, World Bank, Rockefellers, Carlyle Group, and Bush Family

The powers that be have technology that can induce a heart attack.

And your picture of a plant is not what I was talking about. This thread is 100 pages long.

An inexpensive breadboard? I don't think that statement warrants a response at all.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
An inexpensive breadboard? I don't think that statement warrants a response at all.

How about a photograph of it right from his website?

www.cheniere.org...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/514a1e828ae7.jpg[/atsimg]

This isn't ridicule from me, the source is Bearden himself.

I have my own breadboard, and I've built circuits on it before so I have a good idea what components like these actually cost, from personal experience.

When you go to that link there's a place you can click for an update which says "Status report updates - see Correspondence Section"

Here's what that link takes you to:

“Energy from the Vacuum” DVDs now available

He's not selling any technology, he's selling DVDs. FACT.

Then scroll down to see how his technology has progressed in 2011 and what do we see?

2011

More on Klimov's work
29 August

Old Tom Bearden 78 rpm record found (non-science topic)
20 July

Loss of earths protective magnetic field?
10 June

NATO implosion bombs used in Libya
5 May

Superweapons and superlasers
24 April

Klimov's work weaponized and used for free energy
20 April

Labs seek clues after 3,000 birds die in Arkansas
3 January

None of that seems to be about his free energy device!

So there are not even any new claims in all of 2011 to examine! He's got a link to sell DVDs and he's writing articles about things like dead birds.

Something seems to have happened to Rodin's site. The article he wrote isn't at the same link anymore, and other parts of the site seem to have gone missing also. I wonder what happened there?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I have my own breadboard, and I've built circuits on it before so I have a good idea what components like these actually cost, from personal experience.

I second that, I tinkered with electronics when I was a teenager and then more recently. Radioshack is not an expensive place to shop.

“Energy from the Vacuum” DVDs now available

He's not selling any technology, he's selling DVDs. FACT.

Typical! Some people (like Mary) even buy this stuff. So at least they are extracting money from thin air, if not energy.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The first link is "First Patent awarded." Why did you skip that?

Additionally, we have discussed this before: Page 78.

Note that Gary Vesperman's research for PESWiki lists 58 incidents of energy invention suppression by the U.S. Government, etc.

I have no information about what happened to Rodin's site. It doesn't surprise me. But I don't see that it indicates anything nefarious about Rodin, as you apparently do.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
The first link is "First Patent awarded." Why did you skip that?

What link?

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
www.cheniere.org...

Originally posted by Mary Rose
The first link is "First Patent awarded." Why did you skip that?

Oh that Bearden link, I thought maybe you meant the link you posted.

Did you read it, or are you just impressed that he has a patent?

First, the first thing you see when you open that file, is not a patent, but rather advertising for stuff he's trying to sell, books and such.

Second, the principle in the patent is entirely unremarkable to me as someone with expertise in this field. The patent basically describes a transformer, which is some wire made into circles and often wrapped around iron. The new claim in the patent is that while other transformers need to have an input connected to have an output, you can charge this one up, disconnect the input, and still measure an output. This is unremarkable.

It's like saying if I put my bicycle on a stand, and pedal until the wheel is spinning, I can then stop pedaling, but the wheel will keep spinning. If I then engage the generator which draws power from the wheel to turn on my headlight, I can extract power from the spinning wheel, even though I'm not pedaling. The fact that I can do that with a bicycle isn't particularly exciting to me, nor is the fact a similar thing can be done electronically with a transformer. In both cases, you're not getting something from nothing. Even though the input may be disconnected, or you stopped pedaling, you will never get any more energy out than was put in when the input was connected, or that you put into the bicycle by pedaling. Both are under unity in the overall scheme of physics. But if you take a brief enough slice of time which doesn't look at the big picture, yes it's briefly over unity because you're getting output from a device which NO LONGER has any input. If you were breathing hard from pedaling the bicycle you'd realize the energy you're getting isn't free even though you aren't pedaling any more. So that's my take on the claim in his patent.

Bearden may be (and apparently IS) making more dramatic sounding claims OUTSIDE of his patent, but that's all his patent claims, and it's not anything remarkable.

Anyway, what does he need a patent for? The purpose of a patent is to stop competitors from building your invention unless they pay you royalties. Bearden can't even build anything useful himself. If he could, he would be selling that, instead of DVDs and the books you see advertised when you try to open his patent.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
First, the first thing you see when you open that file, is not a patent, but rather advertising for stuff he's trying to sell, books and such.

Do you work and get paid for a living, or are you independently wealthy?

So what if he sells things?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Second, the principle in the patent is entirely unremarkable to me as someone with expertise in this field.

Perhaps the following excerpt, from wanttoknow.info/beardenmeg, suggests what is remarkable about the MEG:

Due to its “heat pump” type operation, the MEG becomes a NESS system, freely receiving excess energy from its second (environmental) energy reservoir that is furnished “for free” by the Aharonov-Bohm effect.

Originally posted by Mary Rose

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
First, the first thing you see when you open that file, is not a patent, but rather advertising for stuff he's trying to sell, books and such.

Do you work and get paid for a living, or are you independently wealthy?

So what if he sells things?

Mary, please try to connect the dots (once again). If one has a viable idea that, when implemented, will extract unlimited amount of energy from vacuum or whatever else, they are sitting on a fountain of wealth, of Biblical proportions. It does seem weird that instead of spending their priceless time on polishing and improving their invention, the inventor elects to invest time and money into producing a DVD that will then be sold to the target audience, i.e. the ignorami.

It's like having found the actual Holy Grail in a cave somewhere, and yet engaging in door-to-door sales of vacuum cleaners. Or selling DVDs with lectures about the Holy Grail (w/o the real thing) on the Web. Just as pathetic.

No Mary, all indications are the "invention" is a dud.