Filthy pics from India...

Originally posted by old_god
Yes this is sad but not unique to India.

I was fortunate enough to travel in that part of asia last year and I spent sometime in the city as well as the rural and more remote places.

Poverty was everywhere but what really struck me was how amongst all those areas that we western people would call slums, there were some larger than life characters.

Surprisingly during my travel I did not really interact with the TV or Radio and I didn't need them, I was mesmerised by the people and their amazing, colour and unique lives.

Everyone had a story and as I moved around through the city to the slums (and less developed parts) of the city I came across something amazing - these people, who had virtually nothing were the ones who really shone.
They always seemed calm and not bitter about their situation and this was down to the fact that they had people they connected to daily around them but also because they had accepted their situation.

I had more peace of mind when I was out in the remote villages with not TV, radio or internet than I haver been in anywhere else, why?

Every day I would interact with people and talk and actually listen, with no awareness of time; In fact things seemed to slow down and I was taking a lot more of my surroundings.

But the evenings were the best, we would sit round a fire talking about everything and anything and to each other (not at each other), drinking "chai" and feeling really connected!

Adios.

Even a homeless amputee with missing leg or eye will smile at life and be lucky and happy to have a day's meal. I've visited India few times just to reboot my brain and thinking and bring me back down to earth. Everytime I visit, it makes me forget my own problems and issues when I witness the poverty and people of India who despite the conditions manage to smile. They know what their destiny holds and what they want.

reply to post by Maslo


Thank you for your thoughts.
And, I wont argue with you there.
I'm sure you know more about such things then I do in my limited experience (as demonstrated by your links - thanks for those too, interesting info)
I'm just basing my own ideas on some great books that I've read - Gandhi and Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda.
You know, they were both great men and I just found that what they had to say as individuals led me to believe that generalizing about Indian culture or any other place on earth that I've never been in person would be remiss of me.
But once again, as another member already pointed out - the reality of the situation is a whole different kettle of fish!
I'm not wholly unaware of the socio-economic struggles, not to mention the huge mission infrastructure presents to their government... but in my small way I like to think of the positive...

Firstly, I want to say thanks to those of you who are explaining the real India. I've never been, although there have been times when I almost went, but nonetheless, I do appreciate the views you are showing us, as well as describing elements of a lifestyle some of us might not know.

But bear in mind, most of the people here are responding to the photographs in the OP. That is the topic.
Negative comments, for the most part, are directed towards those photographs, and not the entire country and population of the nation of India. Of course those ridiculous comments exist, to categorize an entire country and it's people by the doings of a few. Those type comments will apparently always exist.

So while I appreciate your comments, and your willingness to explain them, don't be angry that people find these photographs shocking, because indeed they are shocking. Culture shock, if nothing else.

So try to be a little more patient, please, but also, don't discontinue your discussion in rebutting some of the misconceptions. There is an opportunity here to teach.

reply to post by hp1229


Just a note.....your quoting needs some work.

It looks like my statements are your statements and your statements are my statements, and oh, nevermind.

reply to post by hp1229


I don't mind whatever people worship or believe. The problem is that when they are busy looking at things in their own perspective, I, while being a human being, am regarded with much less respect than a cow. I have a serious problem with that as any sane human beings would. Letting cows cross the traffic while everyone in the car has to stop and wait for them to cross the street is beyond being rational. Humans will get tickets for traffic violation for doing that, on the other hand, cows can leisually walk across the road.

You can not put something less than human beyond the top of the human. That's the problem. If that happens, that's when the society starts to go backward with no improvement.

I think the slave holders of the Caste system in India in ancient times wanted to make people to believe that they are less than cows to perpetuate their slave status.

You have to make them to realize what they are believing and see themselves in the mirror.

Animals can never be higher than Humans and should never be regarded as such.

This is at the core of the logic of the religious belief system. And why the choice of a religion is so important.

You become or act like what you worship or/and what you respect or/and what you love.

This may be called developing affinity in life style or actions with what you worship/'respect/love.

Originally posted by minigunner

The Indians have shown us here that they have adapted and in a sense evolved in a way the west may not view as evolving, but I think biologically they are able to withstand the microbial infestations of their environment. Take a westerner and place them in such an environment and they will be sick within a week. I have seen it hundreds of times over and experienced personally the effects of such an environment.

Good find!

I think you need to take a look at those pictures again, you know, the diseased people who make the Toxic Avenger look handsome, and tell me again that Indian people naturally withstand the filth they are living in.

The sad thing is, religion is the cause of this lifestyle if you can call it that. I just wonder, if they were freed of their religious shackles would they rightfully command more respect for their existence? I think so.

reply to post by Vitchilo


ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww....

Those pics are quite nasty... no wonder there are diseases in these places..... how anyone can think this is 'normal' is beyond me.... how anyone can bathe there is beyond me....

Actually makes me wonder what i've been eating when i've eaten out at restaurants.....

This photo below...... what the funk has happened there?

reply to post by Vitchilo


Assume it, Vitchilo... your thread IS to bash Indian culture.

The source page of this thread is a complete load of culture jingoism and one-sided judgements that are based on ignorance. Here's some examples:

- "hole in ground" type of toilets are actually widely found everywhere in Asia and Europe, raging from cafés in Paris, to Bulgaria, to northern Africa, to hotels in Rajastan.

- Washing your butt with water is actually the most wide-spread habit in the world. Putting aside Western Christian countries and probably China and Japan. And guess what? It's MORE hygienic than toilet paper, while being more environmentally friendly. I won't go into distasteful details, but let's say water does a far better job at keeping your butt clean than paper.

- the Ganja river. It is a religious belief in India that throwing a corpse in the Ganja river carries the souls to the afterlife, since this river is SACRED. It's a well-known fact. It's crazy to see that, of course, but to other people in the world, to incinerate corpses in mechanical devices and put the ashes in hundreds of sealed little boxes all squeezed in some weird-looking buildings, it's something totally unthinkable and a profound disrespect for the dead.

- Weird disgusting diseases: can't deny it, but you find these in all third-world countries. Rather try finding these horrible deformations and sicknesses among the upper caste of India... you might not find a lot. Just as everywhere else, these problems are linked to socially-created problems of extreme poverty, and lack of hygiene as well.

Everything is perspective.

Defecating, urinating, and dumping dead bodies in the same water you bathe in and drink is very, very bad. It spreads disease and makes living conditions even worse than they have to be. If poor isn't enough, being poor and sick is even worse. Having to battle diseases AND hunger at the same time is no fun.

It's not like Westerners have never dumped bodies in water. We've had the Vikings who every now and then cremated a dead body on a boat and sent it down the river (although most were buried in the ground), but generally these cultures eventually learned that burning or burying dead bodies away from the living was a way to control disease and pollution. There was a time when in big cities people would dump their sewage out their window and into the alley. Eventually they learned it wasn't healthy and developed different ways to get rid of sewage. People washed their dirty clothes in rivers, and eventually learned to not do so. Poor people living in the outskirts with no sewers built outhouses for themselves far from the house/shack they lived in, away from their water source.

I don't know if being poor has anything to do with it. I've walked through some poor Roma (Gypsy) areas. These people live in shacks at the edge of town, similar to what is shown in the photos, but I can tell you it didn't smell like death, and there were no dead bodies rotting nearby. I've also been to Mexico where people live in shacks with no electricity or running water, and I didn't smell feces or dead bodies there either. Although these places looked like hell, they couldn't compare to what was shown in those photos. You can be poor and still maintain a certain level of hygiene. One thing is for sure,.... you couldn't get me to come within a mile of the Ganges.

On the other hand if they don't mind living this way, I wouldn't want to stop them. Most of these people grew up doing what they do, so it's hard for them to see anything wrong with it. It's up to the people to decide how they want to live. All I know is that even if I lived in the ghetto or on the street, I'd still want to maintain my living area and keep it as clean as possible. It's one way to avoid extra problems.

reply to post by NadaCambia


Haha, no game-thrower me! Such an unreasonable accusation lol!
Just that I am not really a fistycuffs personality I think, but I did appreciate your honesty - yes.
And of course albeit in such strong terms, you were right.
Who am I to disagree with an aspect of truth?
Thanks again

Now I know why people from India really love super strong incense.
Makes perfect sense now.

They must have an extremely strong immune system if they have to face these conditions daily.

reply to post by NadaCambia


this is a TINY area of india, you can walk the banks in an hour. India is huge, lots of poverty. What people like you fail to understand is that indians are obsessed with personal hygiene, constantly grooming themselves, dressing as immaculately as they can and taking great pride in their living space.

This is a TINY part of a massive city in a huge country with a large number of the pop being cremated here, i only saw bodies being burnt or being taken to be burnt, it is REALLY not that bad.

reply to post by sir_slide


Okay, so why do these people who are meticulous about being clean themselves not care about keeping public property clean or well maintained? Stuff like throwing all your rubbish in the streets and the fact that there are almost no public trashcans in India? They, unlike these poor people, are educated and have money. Why do they behave like this?

reply to post by 547000


There is not enough infrastructure to support the rubbish, simple. A lot of the time they throw rubbish/scraps in the street because the dogs live off it. It is complex in india

reply to post by sir_slide


Okay, so why do things like restrooms look like hell? And why do some Indians who move abroad continue the practice of littering? Why do they spit their disgusting paan on every wall they encounter?

They have NO respect for public property. Only respect for their own property.

reply to post by 547000


sounds like you have a bit of a beef. i apologize but i don't have time for this.

reply to post by 547000

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by sir_slide

 

Okay, so why do things like restrooms look like hell? And why do some Indians who move abroad continue the practice of littering? Why do they spit their disgusting paan on every wall they encounter?

They have NO respect for public property. Only respect for their own property.

edit on 14-1-2011 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

Wow! Did you just manage to lump more than a billion people together in one ignorant statement? Kudos my man, nice work.

Interesting website. Always interesting to observe the Chinese kowtowing to the party line & dissing India & it's people. Because that's all it is, really, a spiteful little dig at the Indians by the Chinese ... China, that nation which has passed from third world backwater to superpower without any intervening period whatever.

So, some parts of India are disgusting. So what ? It's the largest democracy in the world, I love the people, I adore their food, their culture, their history. For all it's faults, I'd support India through thick & thin rather than the Chinese, the Pakis & all the rest of these tinpot dictatorships who need bringing down a peg or three.

Originally posted by notsoperfect
reply to post by hp1229

 

I don't mind whatever people worship or believe. The problem is that when they are busy looking at things in their own perspective, I, while being a human being, am regarded with much less respect than a cow. I have a serious problem with that as any sane human beings would. Letting cows cross the traffic while everyone in the car has to stop and wait for them to cross the street is beyond being rational. Humans will get tickets for traffic violation for doing that, on the other hand, cows can leisually walk across the road.

Ever let Dog, Cat, Geese or Ducks cross the road completely before moving on ? Whose perspective is right and whose perspective is wrong ? It is not that simple to use western civilization or culture as a template to sketch the outline in understanding the indian culture. It is very very diverse. Trust me. Many civilizations have tried to change it and have failed (Alexander, Moghuls, British Empire, French, Portugese) for thousands of years. I'm sure you have your viewpoint just like the way the people of india does. I'm sure in their eyes, somethings that we do in the US might seem totally insane the way its done.

Originally posted by wayno
People in different parts of the world have different cultures, foods and styles, but hygeine is hygeine.

I've travelled to parts of the carribean and Mexico where people were very poor, but universally they were very clean! The generations that came before me had to chop down the trees and clear land to farm in western Canada. They were poor and had to live in lean-to's before they built log cabins.

They never took a crap in their front yard or vegetable garden.!!

When I was still driving truck (Canada/US) it was well known that South Asians would drive in teams and never stop the truck unless they had to. They had a hole cut out of the floor of the cab where the bunks are and did #2 thru the hole while the truck continued to drive down the road. There were stories of repair shops refusing to work on those trucks because they were covered in human feces underneath. It was becoming common for older, out of the way truck stops to be taken over by South Asian owners. Invariably they got dirtier to the point of becoming disgusting. You could count on it.

I am the most liberal, root for the underdog guy you will come across on this site, but I find myself aghast at the hygiene thing with so many people from this part of the world. I worked with an Indian woman who positively sparkled with cleanliness, and my Pakistani neighbour has the cleanest yard in the neighborhood, so I know they all aren't that way, but there is no denying there is a phenomenon there.

It is more than just a poverty thing as poor people everywhere are not this way.

hahaha thats funny if they really did cut a hole through the floor of the truck. Yes there is definitely a problem with public services sector in India. Especially when it is government controlled and not privatized.