I learned a hard lesson from this tragedy...

When the shooting occurred on Saturday, I watched MSNBC and CNN unfold the events. Over the next day, I began to see who was killed, who was injured, and the culprit himself, Jared Loughner. I watched as the country mourned the people who fell...

Then, I went in for the attack...

With Sarah Palin's map on the targets for the Democratic nominees for the election, I, along with many others, attacked her, blaming her partially that her rhetoric had caused this mess. As one member posted, even though we know the shooter wasn't killing for her causes, it was her rhetoric that possibly caused this mess, and could cause another.

I vilified her on other websites...

And then when I read the threads on here that Jared Loughner was a member, and that the media was beginning to report on this, I got angry at the media...

I was angry at them for connecting him to here because while we may be conspiracists, we on this board hope that a better government comes, not from violence, but from talking and bringing about change from the elected officials we vote for that will actually bring it.

I was angry that the media would place ATS as some sort of conspiracy nut case website that the shooter was in contact with, when we're not that...

I then realized the mistake I made, that with vilifying Sarah Palin, as a member of ATS, I was able to be placed in the same spot for a site I hold dear...

Some may same that the situation is different, but I don't see it that. I learned a hard lesson that coming at somebody for what happened doesn't help.

I hope that in the future, I learn from the mistake I made and use better judgment for what I didn't use in this situation.

God bless you, man! What can you do but learn from your mistakes, and if you have the ability to self-evaluate, to see behaviors of yourself by yourself without the need for someone to point them out or shame you into rightly behavior, then I'd say that you're doing alright. This is a very emotional and confusing thing that happened. Did political rhetoric make this guy. Perhaps it helped, but if you look at his posts here or his YouTube vids, this guy was just way off...something was coming down the pipe with this one, and the only one to blame here is the man himself. Sleep well, keep doing your best...what else can you do?

WOW, you felt SHAME.

There may be a chance for you yet.

Problem is, I do not see an actual acceptance of guilt for your beliefs. It seems that you did not feel guilt for the FACT that you were WRONG but that someone you may have communicated with or that is affiliated with you was attacked.

Hmmm, seems to me you should feel guilt for what you did, but you equated political rhetoric, that we all do for something else.

I would like you to read this OP and the subsequent comments that I provided, and than respond.

Did Obama cause the Tuscon attack from his rhetoric????

Actually read it, not just look at the title.

From the beginning of this debacle, I thought it VILE what many did in this incident.

I WILL NOT give peeps forgiveness unless they REALIZE what they have done.

I will wait for your response.

I read your thread, and I still feel the same as before. I'm done with trying to play the blame game. It caused me to look hard when ATS might be blamed by somebody for being connected with the shooter.

I still disagree with what she has to say, though, if that's what you're talking about. While I might feel guilt for vilifying her as ATS was able to be vilified, I disagree with her core views, as I do with the Tea Party.

Look, this country is always going to disagree on what is right and wrong, but I learned what attacking somebody is able to do.

Did you say she should be "taken out?" Did you place her on a national hit list with a rifle site? Did you recommend to the rest of us here on ATS to use second amendment rights against her? Did you intend to foment hatred and bigotry?

Or, were you just venting frustration at the machine that has been promoting hatred and murder for the last 2 years? ATS has many forums to rant without fear of encouraging others to go and kill! If you did you would be repremanded or even banned.

Lively discussion is the best part of ATS. If others don't agree with you they will say so. It is natural to be angry and to name those who you believe to be irresponsible when this kind of nonsense takes place. We are all to blame. Some more than others. I think the anger toward Sarah Palin is warranted and I hope she and her cronies take it to heart in the future.

I, for one, am proud to have been active in condemming her. I wish I would have be more vocal sooner.

reply to post by windword

I disagree with what she says, but like I said, you could have people say that ATS was the reason he became so wacky and crazy because we're a conspiracy website, and that bothered me we were being connected in the media with the shooter.

The people on this website are not like his ilk.

I'm not saying that I'm becoming her supporter, I'm just saying I'm finished playing the blame game.

reply to post by Mak Manto


S&F!

I went through a similar epiphany because of this shooting. Posted my own thread with my thoughts about it and my disillusionment with all the rhetoric.

I'm very enthused to see that others, through this tragic event, have felt the need to question their paradigms in the same way that I have. I hesitate to try and spin anything positive into such a horrible happening. But, maybe, just maybe, some greater good can grow from these ashes.

~Heff

reply to post by Mak Manto


Nope, I don't feel bad, and Palin can kiss my rump roast .

It isn't the first time ats has been portrayed as a bunch of crazies, and it won't be the last, that's the nature of conspiracy discussions. I've accepted it.

ATS is a user generated board, I am not responsible for what you or anyone else posts. Sarah Palin's examples have all been her personal/professional websites with her full support and consent. They are two very different animals.

Do you also feel shame in using youtube?

reply to post by Mak Manto


I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

I for one believe EVERYONE has the right to say anything they want.

They can attempt to equate a leftist that has gone off the deep end to a Tea Partier all they want.
Bloomberg can accuse a Muslim of being a Tea Partier all he wants.
The MSM can accuse an enviromental wacko attacking people at the Discovery channel to be a Tea Partier all they want.

BUT, when the FREAKS in the government attempt to use these very things THAT HAVE NOTHING to do with the Tea Partiers to implement speech restrictions and more gun restrictions on us Tea Partiers, I would expect the people that accused Bush of implementing a police state to ACTUALLY have the balls to stand up and do something.

Otherwise, I am just saying that your OP is just another thread of bloviation and blathering.

THAT, is what I am saying.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

I do not understand what you are trying to say here.

I for one believe EVERYONE has the right to say anything they want.

They can attempt to equate a leftist that has gone off the deep end to a Tea Partier all they want.
Bloomberg can accuse a Muslim of being a Tea Partier all he wants.
The MSM can accuse an enviromental wacko attacking people at the Discovery channel to be a Tea Partier all they want.

BUT, when the FREAKS in the government attempt to use these very things THAT HAVE NOTHING to do with the Tea Partiers to implement speech restrictions and more gun restrictions on us Tea Partiers, I would expect the people that accused Bush of implementing a police state to ACTUALLY have the balls to stand up and do something.

edit on 10-1-2011 by saltheart foamfollower because: (no reason given)

That's not what I'm going on at all, Salt.

I'm saying, stop the blame game. I blamed the Tea Party and Palin, and I was wrong for it. Others who blamed other people shouldn't be either.

And I'm not saying that people can't say what they want to say. What I'm saying is that I made a mistake by believing blaming somebody, in this instance, Palin, we could go after her.

Instead, I realized that ATS was able to be placed in the same situation. I realized that placing the blame is worthless.

Just like we blamed all of Afghanistan for 911. And Iraq.

And a million died because of it.
And our own sons and daughters are dying.

And no one cares.

reply to post by Mak Manto


Okay darnit, have a drink. I am having Captain and Coke.

I have been fighting this insanity all weekend, just getting a LOT pissed off.

The first thing I said when it happened, was to just wait until some facts came out.

Then I had to put up with two days of vile..........................

Sorry, was just been a little peeved about this subject. Time for me to sign off I think.

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Okay darnit, have a drink. I am having Captain and Coke.

I have been fighting this insanity all weekend, just getting a LOT pissed off.

The first thing I said when it happened, was to just wait until some facts came out.

Then I had to put up with two days of vile..........................

Sorry, was just been a little peeved about this subject. Time for me to sign off I think.

Well, I didn't wait. I attacked, and it caused me to have a real look at who I am and what I was doing.

Originally posted by searching4truth
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Nope, I don't feel bad, and Palin can kiss my rump roast

.

Exactly! There is a reason you were so quick to jump to this conclusion, Mark Manto. Because the atmosphere these rattlesnakes have created with their constant crying out for blood lead you to the obvious conclusion long ago. "Someone is gonna get shot." The reality is they have been creating an atmosphere where that sort of thing was expected and you reacted as you should have.

Personally, I did not take the same jump but I see why anyone would and that is why I think now is a really good time for people like Palin, Beck, Angle to at least stop and think about the type of atmosphere they have created by fomenting the idea that the left are all enemies of the state bent on destroying the country. Now is a good time for all politicians to maybe think about how to go forward like adults.

Perhaps if the Republicans had not spent the last two years egging on a shooting, you would not have been so quick to assume they influenced this one. I am pretty sure that is there fault.(not the shooting - for the reading impaired)

reply to post by Mak Manto


I'm guessing you're not considering all of those itching for 'TSTHTF'....asking vile questions like, What kind of melee knife should I buy? This wacko was not alone in his madness....

reply to post by Sinnthia


WOW!

That is all that it took. WOW!

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

WOW!

That is all that it took. WOW!

Do you actually have anything to say?
I am still waiting for you to explain how I am lying about a congresswoman being shot in the face this weekend. I thought you were better than drive by adhoms and that is all I get from you.

edit Nevermind delete if possible please

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Just like we blamed all of Afghanistan for 911. And Iraq.

And a million died because of it.
And our own sons and daughters are dying.

And no one cares.

Who blamed "all of Afghanistan?" Nobody that I know of.