Thomas Jefferson's report to the American Philosophical Society, regarding a UFO

I've conducted a search and was unable to find this posted, forgive me if it has been.

Keep in mind too people, UFO means exactly that, an Unidentified Flying Object

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f72b66634f5d.jpg[/atsimg]

Source: TRANSACTIONS AMERICAN PHILOSOPHICAL SOCIETY

I originally saw this posted here

It goes on to explain:

This one page notice appeared in the Transactions of the American Philosophical Society vol. 6 Part 1 (Philadelphia, 1804), p. 25. At the time it was written, Thomas Jefferson was president of the Society and also Vice President of the United States. Apparently it was written and submitted by the naturalist William Dunbar, and communicated or presented to the society by Jefferson. Unfortunately, the plate referred to is missing.

William Dunbar, who communictaed to this even to Thomas Jefferson was a naturalist, astronomer and explorer, and not a dummy by any means. Taken from Wiki

...he devoted himself to scientific inquiry, gathering a significant collection of data on Indian vocabulary, as well as using chemical analysis in geology, seasonal river levels, fossils, astronomical phenomena, and utilizing a method of finding longitude by astronomical means.

Pretty interesting I say, and perhaps another chapter to add to the UFO books.

S&F! Indeed, perhaps it's time for America to go back to it's Founding Fathers?

Wow, that is an EXCELLENT find!

S&F!

This, IMO, is pretty big. It's a former President putting his name next to a UFO sighting. I wonder why this hasn't been dug up before?

Good stuff! I won't be surprised to see this on the front page of ATS by tomorrow.

~Namaste

reply to post by Juston


Great find...


If only today's UFO accounts were so detailed and articulate, we might get somewhere with the topic...

Ah, the good old days, where well-respected officials of the government actually tried to help and inform the public of what exactly the UFO was, instead of sweeping it under the rug and simply dismissing it as "swamp gas", "weather balloons", or "helicopter/airplane lights". I would do anything to have an honest government functioning just like that now. It just goes to show how the they don't care about the people anymore

There have been stories of townspeople in that time period who buried dead extraterrestrials they retrieved from crash sites. They even performed funeral services and placed tombstones for them. Very interesting document you've found.

reply to post by Juston


Wow! Just wow....

This is so interesting on multiple levels. Great find!

S + F for sure.....

It was seen by William Dunbar Esq, not thomas jefferson.
As for the actual letter it is taken waaaaay out of context, he was talking about a meteor he saw not a UFO. Dubar did this for a living
www.jstor.org...

This was just communicated by Jefferson because Jefferson thought it was interesting. Im not sure if anyone knew about this little not so famos quote made by thomas jefferson
""Gentlemen, I would rather believe that two Yankee professors would lie than believe that stones fall from heaven"
Thomas Jefferson would have thought anything in the sky was a "UFO". I guess he was the first Doe Eyed believer

reply to post by Kayzar



You are correct, it was originally reported by Dunbar, to Jefferson as stated in the OP.
Was it a meteor? He did this for a living so I would assume he would communicate as such to Mr. Jefferson, rather than use the term "Phenomenon", no?

reply to post by Kayzar


Do more detective work my friend... it says Description by Dunbar communicated to him by Tom Jeff

Seems to big for a meteor eh?? goin to slow?
Prolly would have at least nothing more injured them at 200 yards eh?
at least shockwave right? and it would have been reported....

reply to post by Kayzar


Mmm... re-read the OP, I think you missed some of the salient points. Yes, it was a sighting by William Dunbar, but.. BUT (wait for it)!: communicated by Thomas Jefferson TO the American Philosophical Society.

EDIT: also, what meteors do you know of described as "to be the size of a large house" ... and "200 yards above the surface of the earth, wholly luminous, but not emitting sparks"?

reply to post by Juston


was it a meteor?

[url]http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Gazetteer/Places/America/United_States/_Topics/history/_Texts/journals/TAPS/6/Baton_Rouge_Phenomenon.html[/ url]

More importantly, if the observation of the object's size is anywhere near accurate, it was not a meteorite: an object of this size, entering earth's atmosphere at a speed typical of objects falling to earth from space, would probably have left a much larger trace of itself, and would almost certainly have killed the observer and anyone else near the fall. Scientists currently gauge the size of the iron meteor that created Arizona's Meteor Crater, for example, at roughly 50 meters, only about twice the estimate reported by Dunbar.

Further confirmation that this was no meteorite seems to be given by the object's speed. Assuming more or less flat terrain (and though the vicinity of Baton Rouge is considered hilly by Louisiana standards, the State is one of the flattest in the Union and this area is at most gently rolling) and an observer whose eyes were a bit more than 1.50 meters above the ground — the math is here — the horizon is about 4.4 km away. The distance covered by the object within the witnesses' field of vision was thus a maximum 9 kilometers, but probably only about two-thirds of that (since they surely didn't notice it the instant it rose over their horizon, although once they saw it, they must with equal certainty have tracked it to the very end). If, then, it covered 6 to 9 km in something like 15 seconds, it was traveling at no more than 2200 km an hour. This is considerably less than the 11,000 km/h minimum impact velocity of an object freefalling to Earth from space. Furthermore, if we can trust Dunbar's witnesses on the height of the object above the ground, and as he explicitly states, directly above their heads — yet such perceptions of distance against a featureless sky are notoriously subject to error, even among trained pilots — its trajectory must have been far flatter than that of any normal meteor: it was 200 m above the ground and continued to travel at least 6 km (to the horizon, then "a few seconds") before it crashed, an angle of at most 1.9°. He speaks of it, at any rate, as on a more or less level trajectory.

reply to post by facelift


Good find

It's a great OP and superb slice of history involving someone who's a household name for much of the West. S&F.

There's a description of a large orange-red, fiery ball that passes overhead. Heat is felt from it and then there's a loud crashing sound. When they go and look, the area is all broken up and burned.

Instead of a UFO, it has the hallmarks of a meteorite impact.

Given the details in the account, I wonder if any 'meteorite hunters' have tried to find the impact site? Also, would it be possible to use Google Satellite to see if the crater remains?

Originally posted by igigi
reply to post by Kayzar

 

Mmm... re-read the OP, I think you missed some of the salient points. Yes, it was a sighting by William Dunbar, but.. BUT (wait for it)!: communicated by Thomas Jefferson TO the American Philosophical Society.

EDIT: also, what meteors do you know of described as "to be the size of a large house" ... and "200 yards above the surface of the earth, wholly luminous, but not emitting sparks"?

edit on 10-1-2011 by igigi because: skulduggery.

Meteors don't give off sparks, and as far as the distances they are just a guess and are subjet to error. How do you guess the dimensions of something that is glowing at night time? Something that was glowing bright would obscure the actual size of the object
""Gentlemen, I would rather believe that two Yankee professors would lie than believe that stones fall from heaven"- Thomas Jefferson

I thought the same, that it may have been a meteorite impact. But surely, a crater would have been discovered, especially if the object was the size of a house. (Even, if it was half the size, I'd suspect it'd still leave a pretty substantial mark).

As far as the noise, he speaks of a "loud rushing noise" after it disappears. ...Not prior to or during. Also the loud crash afterward...with the sound being heard immediately after the sighting, could it have been a sonic boom or something like that?

reply to post by Juston


Depends on the velocity of the object, angle of injection into our atmosphere, etc. Meteors can definitely go super-sonic; most of them reach terminal velocity and break up (emitting "sparks") due to air friction while going through entry.

reply to post by igigi


So it seems a lot of things would depend on the velocity. Makes sense.

In the link that facelift posted earlier, it was stated:

Further confirmation that this was no meteorite seems to be given by the object's speed. Assuming more or less flat terrain (and though the vicinity of Baton Rouge is considered hilly by Louisiana standards, the State is one of the flattest in the Union and this area is at most gently rolling) and an observer whose eyes were a bit more than 1.50 meters above the ground — the math is here — the horizon is about 4.4 km away. The distance covered by the object within the witnesses' field of vision was thus a maximum 9 kilometers, but probably only about two-thirds of that (since they surely didn't notice it the instant it rose over their horizon, although once they saw it, they must with equal certainty have tracked it to the very end). If, then, it covered 6 to 9 km in something like 15 seconds, it was traveling at no more than 2200 km an hour. This is considerably less than the 11,000 km/h minimum impact velocity of an object freefalling to Earth from space. Furthermore, if we can trust Dunbar's witnesses on the height of the object above the ground, and as he explicitly states, directly above their heads — yet such perceptions of distance against a featureless sky are notoriously subject to error, even among trained pilots — its trajectory must have been far flatter than that of any normal meteor: it was 200 m above the ground and continued to travel at least 6 km (to the horizon, then "a few seconds") before it crashed, an angle of at most 1.9°. He speaks of it, at any rate, as on a more or less level trajectory.

nope, not a meteorite....
my vote

Originally posted by SonOfTheLawOfOne
Good stuff! I won't be surprised to see this on the front page of ATS by tomorrow.

Thanks. Although I doubt it seeing as how the unfortunate event in AZ makes up about 50% of threads ATM