New Deal (UK) – the great fraud.

New Deal (UK) – the great fraud.

For those who aren't familiar with new deal I'll explain what it is.

The Claims

If you have been claiming job seekers allowance for over a certain period (Dependant on status, such as 6 months for under 25's or 18 months for over 25's.) you are allocated a specific case worker (called an “advisor”) at the job centre who will help you find work.
If that is unsuccessful, Your “advisor” will then arrange a short 2 week course for you, where you can look for jobs brush up on your job hunting skills and identify any problems you may have with English and maths.
If after this 2 weeks is over you are still unable to find employment you are then sent on a six month long job hunting course.
If after 6 months you still haven't found a job, your advisor will rebook you on the 6 month course as many time as you need until you successfully find employment.



The Reality

After your grace period to find a job is over you are assigned a “Advisor” who does as little as possible to help you find work.
If you fail to find a job in a few weeks they put you on the two week course (which surprisingly is about the only thing that works.) The only real downside of this course is that at the beginning you have to sit a humiliatingly simple maths and English test (3+4= A real question in the test.). Other than that one issue (which I suppose is understandable as some people hide their learning difficulties. Things are fine the teachers are helpful there are enough computers, papers, pens etc to job hunt.
When you go on the 6 month course that's when the real conspiracy begins.
First of all when you get there you take a basic English and maths test (the exact same one you took 2 weeks ago.)
Then after that the hell begins, you are expected to sit in tiny rooms filled well beyond safe limits (not to mention some times lacking enough chairs for everyone to sit down at at once.) there can be as many as 30 job seekers in a room that would be cosy with five or ten.
The teacher is usually to busy (with paperwork) to actually help more than 2 or 3 people a day.
The next problem is resources how are you supposed to share 5 computers 3 newspapers and 5 pens (what you'd have on an average day.) between 20-25 people.
So you end up with most people just sitting there for most of the day doing nothing, they aren't even allowed to leave to job hunt outside usually as that would mean extra hassle for the already overburdened teachers.
The big scam is the time sheet both teachers and “job seekers” regularly commit fraud by claiming they have been at the centre more than they actually have on official government documents.

Mean while all the money the job centre gave the private company that ran your course goes to there head office and stays there.

Another fun fact is the government uses new deal to massage the unemployment figures as when you are on it you are classed as in full time training and are thus not unemployed. So next time you see u.k. Unemployment figures stick a few thousand on it.

sorry for any typos :p

I'm not quite sure I see the fraud, what I do see is a government plan that apparently drastically and stupidly underestimated how many people would be using the service and therefore can not cope. And in a country that can not afford to fix said issue.

That of course isn't to say they'd bother to fix it even if they could...this party has condemed Britian just as much as the previous.

The whole job centre agenda as far as I can tell has always been to basically humiliate you into never coming back so that they can sign you off of the official unemployed list.

I only claimed for a while when I first left university but the whole experience consisted of being spoken down to, ignored or sitting around doing nothing for large amounts of the time while the staff did as little as possible in the longest time available.

If you have any kind of education at all then they've got no way to help you. I had just left a 4 year computer degree and they kept asking me to go and do a basic IT skills course

How about:

If you do not find a job after six months all benefit stops. Your entitlement to NHS treatment ends and you are forced to sell your Games consoles, 60" LCD tvs, American style fridges, Designer clothes and extensive jewellry collection, in order to pay the council your rent.

reply to post by KingDoey


Strangely I had none of those things at the time, I got through university by working a minimum wage job and stuffing envelopes for less then minimum wage in my spare time

Keep reading the Daily Mail

I think it's a fantastic idea to force the unemployed to do something like this. If for no other reason than the fact that it forces them to adopt a routine and it'll annoy some of them so much that getting a job will be preferable to going on those courses. There's lots of work out there (in the UK) people just have to be prepared to take any job rather than being so fussy while believing that it's their right to mooch off the system.

Rev

Originally posted by davespanners
reply to post by KingDoey

 

Strangely I had no of those things at the time, I got through university by working a minimum wage job and stuffing envelopes for less then minimum wage in my spare time

Keep reading the Daily Mail

Hat off to you then, how about the other 95%?

You had a job so do i? However, unfortunately i cannout afford all these things as i have bills to pay for. Its easy to have them though when you can just take your handouts and have your rent paid for you.

There are hundreds of jobs out there, I have never been unemployed, I have always found work even if it is working in a warehouse or packaging goods as a stop gap. People these days get too much handed on a plate. It is too easy to not work.

reply to post by KingDoey


You do realise, there's not enough jobs, right? It's not like every single person who's unemployed is that way because they can't be bothered.

I'm unemployed currently, after I recently dropped out of university (you can hold that against me if you want) I held a part-time job during my course and sixth-form and did as much over-time as I could. However, Morrison's, whom I worked for, decided to stop giving out over-time (even though they were making well over £100m profit already, and our store was one of the best in the region), as a result, I was only allowed to work my contract of 12 hours a week, this, combined with the fact that I had to move in with my mum, as obviously my student accomodation expired, meant I had to quit the job. It took me over 2 hours to travel 1 way to work- this despite the fact that my mum only lives around 20 miles from the store- because of poor public transport. One of my shifts was only 4 hours long, and that took over 4 hours of travelling- clearly not worth it (I had to sell my car during my studies, with that I would have been okay).

Believe me, I've looked fairly hard for work during the past few months (I'm currently also on the waiting list to join the RAF, and have been for some time, but that joke of a recruitment system is a whole other story), I don't care what job I do, I've applied for various menial jobs, but am limited because I have next to no experience and I'm limited by where I can work because of reliance upon public transport. Saying there are 100s of jobs is ridiculous, do you realise how many people are unemployed? It's a fact that there aren't enough jobs.

I only started claiming for benefits a few weeks ago, I was highly reluctant to do so, however I had a big overdraft I'd been living off, but that's gone now, let alone savings. Anyway, I'd happily do pretty much any job, I'd join the army and risk my life on the front line, honestly, but I'm limited in what I can do in the forces, because I had asthma as a child- as I said, I'm on the waiting list for a role anyway, and you can't be on the waiting list for more than 1 job.

Just don't stereotype, please. I do have an xbox, admittedly, but where is £150 going to get me? I have no other assets other than a TV from 1995 (not joking), the laptop I'm on now, which is broke and obviously, clothes. I'm not complaining, my family don't live in poverty and I realise I'm lucky I've got someone who will help me out. But, it's a joke that after 2.5 months (I've been unemployed for 5 months, but was originally waiting solely for the RAF) I haven't even been able to get a response to any of the numerous shelf-stacking jobs and various other jobs I've applied for, let alone an interview. And no, I'm not stupid

reply to post by KingDoey


I agree about it being too easy not to work. That said, it's more difficult to be off on the sick nowadays, especially if you've ever had to go to one of those "Atos" medical assessments. I went to one when I was first declared unfit for work and they ignored all my medical notes, ignored everything I said and then told the benefits agency that I was fit for work. I've been appealing that decision for around 12 months now.

I'm lucky because I'm my wife's carer and as such we can still scrape enough cash together to eat, pay most of our bills and have a couple of luxuries (like our internet connection) but it isn't easy. I'm looking forward to being able to go back to work though and I'm thinking of applying for McDonald's when that day comes.

Rev

reply to post by KingDoey


Its certain that some people do indeed abuse the benefits system, and some abuse it in a HUGe way, their the ones you always read about.

Honestly at the time I thought I was investing in my future but if I could go back I would have just gone and started working in computers at 16 as the education doesn't seem to have helped me get a better job in any way and employers appreciate experience over bits of paper.

I've ended up being self employed and working in as many different fields as I can to try and spread the risk of one particular income stream dying.

I just doubt that anyone would choose to go through the experience of claiming job seekers just for fun as it's a horrible experience.
I think a lot of the abuse occurs in people that are signed off on long term sickness benefits as they just leave you alone and pay you money once you get on that

reply to post by ScepticalBeliever


There's loads of work out there if you're willing to do anything. I've been signed off sick since the end of 2008 and I'm still getting calls from agency's a couple of times a week offering me an interview next day for rollouts or data migrations, which are way below my skill-set and usual pay-grade, but it's easy money and I could really use the cash right now, even if it's only a poxy £20ph for a 3 month contract.

Shame I'm not fit to work right now really.

Rev

There are some people who genuinely do need the benefit system, and that is what it is there for. It is not intended to be a long term thing, it supposed to be a short term aid until you can secure a new job.

One of my mates has been on the dole for 2 years. He cannot be arsed to get a job, he has stated that! He gets his rent paid for him and he gets his jobseekers. We give him abuse all the time, but he does not care!

That is the core issue, many of these people will happily take your hard earned nat. insurance contributions and tax! They have no shame!!!

The 5% that use the system correctly deserve to, but it is the 95% that never come off that p*ss me off.

Sometimes makes me wonder why I bust my arse 40 hours a week, when i could chill out all day on the box?!

Not going to uni was the best decision i EVER made, so many pointless and worthless degrees nowadays. The graduate sector is far too saturated.

Originally posted by revmoofoo
reply to post by ScepticalBeliever

 

There's loads of work out there if you're willing to do anything. I've been signed off sick since the end of 2008 and I'm still getting calls from agency's a couple of times a week offering me an interview next day for rollouts or data migrations, which are way below my skill-set and usual pay-grade, but it's easy money and I could really use the cash right now, even if it's only a poxy £20ph for a 3 month contract.

Shame I'm not fit to work right now really.

Rev

edit on 10/1/2011 by revmoofoo because: My kingdom for mad spelling skills!

Seconded mate, sometimes you have to take a pay cut and work below your qualifications.

People are too picky these days.

Originally posted by revmoofoo
reply to post by ScepticalBeliever

 

There's loads of work out there if you're willing to do anything. I've been signed off sick since the end of 2008 and I'm still getting calls from agency's a couple of times a week offering me an interview next day for rollouts or data migrations, which are way below my skill-set and usual pay-grade, but it's easy money and I could really use the cash right now, even if it's only a poxy £20ph for a 3 month contract.

Shame I'm not fit to work right now really.

Rev

edit on 10/1/2011 by revmoofoo because: My kingdom for mad spelling skills!

It's not a case of what you're willing to do though, is it? My original aim was to become an accountant, thus I looked for office junior type rolls to get me started- however, they all want previous general office experience. I have no experience, that's the thing. I could do my accountancy qualifications, which yes, in hindsight, I should have done instead of university, however, the courses cost around £3000 a year- obviously I can't afford that. I'm guessing you're fairly experienced and have a "meaty" C.V. I have no experience at anything other than "retail", which is the area I've been targetting, without success.

Way to sound patronising with "poxy £20ph", as well- seems you're totally out of touch with the current situation.

reply to post by KingDoey




What alternate reality are you living in.
I'm unemployed and the only one of those I have are an decrepid xbox (not 360) and a broken ps2.

I don't think even if I sell both of them I'd even pay a weeks rent.

Originally posted by revmoofoo
I think it's a fantastic idea to force the unemployed to do something like this. If for no other reason than the fact that it forces them to adopt a routine and it'll annoy some of them so much that getting a job will be preferable to going on those courses. There's lots of work out there (in the UK) people just have to be prepared to take any job rather than being so fussy while believing that it's their right to mooch off the system.

Rev

That may have been the case back in the 60s but believe me the new demographic indicates that a lot of these unemployed are professional white collar people with degrees and education in excess of the teachers and advisors. Been ther and done it.

I find the entire premise that people are workshy applicable to maybe 10 % of the population. Who can really like on the dole? Who wants the routine humiliation of the dole and the upturned noses of people like you?

this whole idea is going to be an expensive failure!

What percentage of people need a physical course on jobhunting?

reply to post by monkofmimir


I was having a rant as i have had enough of the benefits system in this country.

People who need it, fairplay use it, its those that are happy to stay on it that I am talking about, and i know of people that are.

Maybe I am harsh, and i don't mean to be. I am just another UK taxpayer fed up with giving a third of my wage every month to support those that DO NOT WISH (not those that can't) to work.

Hope that clarifies it better.

Maybe theres work in some parts of the country but round here theres nothing, and I don't just mean I'm struggling to get my ideal job, I mean I'm struggling to get ANY job. right now I'd work as a shelf stacker or kp, though right now I'm lucky if the company even bothers to send me a rejection letter.

There are some who abuse the system and then there are some that are abused by it. New deal picks mainly on those already abused by it.
most of those that are using the system cheat there was out of doing new deal where as those that need the help are let down by the training.

It's not only short on jobs out there, it's void. Where I live, in a town of about 8000, most shopkeepers I know are getting at least 3-4 people every day asking for work. A new meat production/packing job opp came up for 150 people and they wanted locals, great, so pretty much everyone applied and was promised the work to find that after the new year they had a shortage of equipment and could only take on 6... 6 out of 150.

That's where the benefits problem lies. Not that people are too lazy to get up and look for work, but that they've been rejected on such a regular basis, face to face, over the phone, or just no replies at all - that all builds up and people just lose the will to further humiliate themselves.

Employers are requesting more and more disclosure from potential employees including CRB (unserstandable for certain positions working with the public) and credit checks which is frankly NOTB - None Of Their Business! In these cases where a person has a poor financial history this could also block them from getting into work, excluding most on long term jobseekers as you can't live on £65 a week, whether or not your rent is paid for you so most people I know who claim have, through often no fault of theirs, missed payments on subscriptions they bought when they felt secure in their employment and if cancelled would have to pay the full year or some other penalty charge (so that's anything from phone to SKY tv to Broadband and Mobiles, all Insurance, pension schemes etc). Just another barrier to work entry, and with more redundancies than vacancies I don't envisage the status quo changing any time soon.

reply to post by ScepticalBeliever


You could sweep streets, clean toilets, work in a bar, roadie for a band, clean buses, etc. I did all of those jobs and much worse when I was a young lad and it didn't do me any harm. Use your imagination mate and you'll find that there's loads of crap jobs out there that no one else will take because they're "beneath them" or because "that's what immigrants are for"

As for my supposedly "patronising" comment about a £20ph contract. I meant no offence by it. I usually go out for £35ph to £50ph when I'm able to work, so I'm sure that you can see why I made that comment. I only got to that pay level because I was willing to take all the crap work that was going and by doing that I proved to my employers that they didn't need someone with all the relevant qualifications, all they needed was me because I worked hard and never needed to be shown the same "fix" twice.

As my brother-in-law said to me when he dragged me out to the Slovak Republic to build Desktop Computers and Servers, "It's all about your attitude toward the tasks you're given" and as usual he was right...I hate that about him! lol

Rev