Jared Loughner was Influenced by Hypnosis

Jared Loughner was influenced by hypnosis in a sense. I don't necessarily mean Jared Loughner was hypnotized. There just happen to be certain things about what he has written and put into his video that suggest that he had at least been into researching hypnosis, and may ultimately be faking being crazy or hypnotized.

Quote by Jared Loughner

There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government?

This quote bares an uncanny resemblance to an excerpt from a book that I have read on hypnosis.

Quote from the book Hypnotism by Albert Moll
books.google.com...
On Page 94

Sense delusions can be suggested in any way. We can tell the subject that he sees a bird. We can suggest the same thing by gesture -- for example, by pretending to hold a bird in the hand -- particularly after the subject has received some hypnotic training. The chief point is that the subject should understand what is intended by the gesture.
Naturally, several organs of sense can be influenced by suggestion at the same time. I tell some one, "Here is a rose;" he not only sees, but smells and feels the rose. I pretend to give another subject a dozen oysters; he eats them at once, without further suggestion. The suggestion here affects sight, feeling, and taste at the same time. In many cases the muscular sense is influenced in a striking manner by such suggestions.

Watch the video he posted on this Youtube channel: www.youtube.com...
In his video, he makes multiple references to the invisible bird that he pretends to hold in his right hand.

There is even a little text popup box in his video that says "Do you not see that rare bird on my shoulder?"

In my opinion this is a clear reference to hypnotism. He even acknowledges that the bird is invisible or does not exist on some level.

He said in his one quote that if you see the bird you will understand. I hate to say it, but I can see what the bird means to him, and I can think of a way that he can actually "see" the bird... hypnosis.

I understand how the bird can talk to him. He is making a reference to a hallucination created by hypnosis. When certain people are hypnotized, they will believe almost anything. Whether he is actually hypnotized or just pretending to be hypnotized is unclear, but having a conversation with an invisible talking person or animal is actually something that people will do if properly hypnotized. Personally I think he is faking, but if he is really hypnotized, it is still unclear whether he did it to himself or if someone else like the "person of interest", who just had his photo recently released, was involved.

The fact that he mentions that the bird talks to him about the government, suggests he is not talking about a real bird, but instead he is talking about a hallucination. Also, given his focus on mind control, the hypnosis explanation seems to fit his personality profile.

Remember - I'm not trying to suggest he was actually hypnotized. I think it's far more likely that he is a narcissistic sociopath with delusions of persecution. Clearly the murder was premeditated, so I think the hypnosis is a 'spin' or possible justification/insanity plea argument. I hope he gets whats coming to him.

Maybe he thought he was a pirate with a hairless cyclops parrot on his shoulder? Pirates are often notorious for hating governments.

Originally posted by quantum_flux
Maybe he thought he was a pirate with a hairless cyclops parrot on his shoulder? Pirates are often notorious for hating governments.

edit on 10-1-2011 by quantum_flux because:

Maybe you should get out of my thread if you have nothing of substance to contribute.

Plausible and interesting theory. Nothing ever is or as meets the eye.

He couldve have taken the phrase "a little bird told me today..." way out of context. No doubt he was an unusual person. I would not say hes crazy though, although that is what is trying to be implied by the msm. He was a black and white type of guy for so far as I can tell by his threads here. Someone better at deducing symbols might be better able to describe what he was trying to express through the bird, because this bird he had in his hand was not an ordinary bird.


Edit: I don't think if he were hypnotized that he would keep suggesting that it is there. So its possible hes faking it, but I also don't think he was faking it. He must have been referring to something real, but becuase he is that strange, he decided to muck it up in his own fantasy.

Jared wrote this text in one of his schizogram youtube videos

Sleepwalking

If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

I define sleepwalking.

Thus, sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating, or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening.

I'm a sleepwalker - who turns off the alarm clock.

All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep.

Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment.

Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.

This quote seems to imply he is not consciously in control of his actions. I have also read in a hypnosis book that I have in my bookshelf but I can't find right at the moment that people who talk in their sleep, or who sleepwalk, usually make excellent hypnotic subjects.

Perhaps he was trying to make himself fit the mold of a hypnotized person to mitigate responsibility for his actions by claiming these things in his videos that can't really be proven but seem creepy. IE the bird, the sleepwalking after he hits the alarm, etc... His act was premeditated so it makes sense that he would start trying to diffuse responsibility for the act before he carried it out.

Originally posted by asperetty
So its possible hes faking it, but I also don't think he was faking it. He must have been referring to something real, but becuase he is that strange, he decided to muck it up in his own fantasy.

edit on 10-1-2011 by asperetty because: (no reason given)

Or he is faking it, and those little instances where he "mucks up" his own fantasy, in your words, are going to be the difference between whether this guy ends up behind bars or in a mental institution. In a way I would like to see it proven that this guy was not clinically insane. It will be hard, but those little instances where he messes up his fantasy could be instrumental in holding him fully responsible for his actions.

reply to post by Albastion


Lets just be glad that you are not a judge and hopefully not a juror. The point of your thread was to distinguish his level of consciousness/sanity, not condemn him. So on that note lets speculate again. Where else does the bird appear? How many videos has he made? What were the messages contained in them? Does he refer to being in an semi-conscious state in all of them, and does he always point out the bird? I think I read that he had a patch of the bird he speaks of on is shoulder... Does he speak calmly throughout? How many times does he blink per minute? Per video? Does he ever refer to another party (other than the bird) that might suggest he's being influenced by something other than his own pattern of thoughts? Does he ever condemn himself such as by arguing with himself, thinking twice (doubting), or generally denying anything about himself? Now once you can come to a conclusion by answering these questions and many more, then you can start talking about how he should be in prison rather than a psych ward. Follow your own signature.

EDIT: just read that he has his own alter? If you believe the theories that certain individuals or sects in the CIA practice Satanistic or Paganistic rituals, then yes, you have a lead.



EDIT 2: When i said "mucks it up with his fantasies" i meant that he is trying to express something of real value but has that strangeness in him that totally perverses the way it is expressed.

The guy calls himself a terrorist and symbolically advocates the overthrow of the US government with his demonic eagle symbol that he wants people "to die for", and calls for a new currency and a new language. I think his actions were quite clearly premeditated and he should spend time in prison for shooting a member of congress in the head and trying to incite people to do similar actions through his media. I will be very disappointed if he is found clinically insane.

At first glance it is might seem easy to dismiss him as just being crazy. However, his apparent desire to influence large numbers of people by using his media seems very premeditated. His videos seem to be tailored towards a large number of viewers. This is evidence.

His practices, like with the Satanic altar, could be explained as him trying to psychologically prepare himself to carry out those acts. His own actions can help prove his premeditation and prove that he is psychopathic but not clinically insane. For example, perhaps his strange use of language and his refusal to use regular speech is reflective of his desire to propagate his own new grammar system. He wouldn't switch back to regular English because he considered only his language to be real. That's why he calls everyone else illiterate... they don't speak HIS language.

Have you seen the movie 'Close encounters of the fourth kind'? It is about alien abductions and based on a true story. In that movie the people who are abducted have visions about and owl that just sits there and stares at them during the night. This is part of the alien abduction experience where memory is generally wiped of the encounter, some times a different association to the alien is made in the abductees mind. There are many subtle variations between abduction experiences when you start looking into it.

reply to post by kwakakev


"The Fourth kind" was proven to be fictional, with the producers literally fabricating the entire story. Universal Pictures settled out of court. It was a hypothesis, based on no real fact or hard evidence, but presented as being a "true story"

All the allege footage is faked.

reply to post by infinite


There is heaps more out their on alien abductions, it makes the point. I am not doing your homework.


There is also this to support alien intervention www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes well half of ATS has their own version of currency which they want to introduce. I would not consider his attempts to propagate his ideas on Youtube proof that his killing spree was premeditated, and therefore proof that he is sane. Insane people can still use technology and express themselves. When you talk about him constructing his own version of reality, that does point to schizophrenia and other psychopathologies, and when you say he had intended to use youtube to influence others, well, yes of course, but the fact that he has his own interpretation of the world that does not fit with anyone elses kind of places doubt on whether if it were his intention to influence or not, that regardless, only a person with the level of his strangeness could understand, meaning that yeah, they are probably both insane or deeply misguided and should get treatment. Inciting people to act as he does and talk as he does...thats just arrogance. Yeah, his choice of grammar was strange, but that is because he did not feel so many words were necessary to express himself. I said before he seemed to see the world in either black or white, meaning he saw only the two sides of the coin without realizing that the world is a globe, because he had a habit of promoting deductive reasoning to everything until the topic at hand was a question of yes or no. When he breaks down actions and thoughts to that level before accepting the thought or committing the action, then you could say he is a psychopath because his thought process is singular and bleak and at total mercy of how he chooses, in other words impulsive.

I agree that the alter suggests that he might have been performing rituals to prepare or conjure up a state of mind for his own comfort, and that it is reason to believe he had planned to murder, which I don't doubt at all he that he had planned to. But insane people also do plan. I should make it clear though that I'm not concluding he is insane, only strange.

Until he testifies as to why he chose to murder, then we cannot diagnose him or sentence him. Otherwise without finding out his reasoning, our reasoning will just bring us in circles with you saying "in light of this he is not insane" and me saying "yes but insane people can do this as well", because premeditation is not an exclusive attribute of a healthy mind.

Im watching the vids now for the first time, and I think I was right when I said he was trying to send a significant message but “mucked” it up in his strange expression of things. I’ll try to explain his thoughts better for him.

when he talks of people having their own currency, I think he is talking about people having their own creativity, whatever it is that makes them an individual, and that we as “treasurers” distribute that currency. He is constantly asking to the individual to take control of himself, or to at least for the individual to realize they are only what they allow others to make themselves out to be. Im sure we have all heard of the term sheeple. This is what he is trying to get across when he mentions our illiteracy. He does not want us to follow what his version of literacy. Just that we understand we determine our level of literacy, yet, the models by which we compare and determine our literacy is not control by us, for the most part, as our world is a structure that has been constructed by higher authorities.

I think in his first video he is trying to tell us that we are all brainwashed to a certain point, depending on the person. When he said “if I had my civil rights, then this would never have happened”, that he realized like many of us here at ATS understand, that our entire reality is manipulated, that we don’t know the whole truth of anything, and that a lot of it is hidden deliberately from us. From his point of view, he may have understood this and realized that anyone withholding the truth is a manipulator of conscious reality, therein defining what he implies as being consciously asleep. We have no real choice but to live in a hypnotic state, and that even when we sleep, we don’t dream real dreams, only dreams shaped by our imagination for as much as we have witnessed reality. In other words, even our dreams are manipulated. So when he says that he and a few others and “sadly” not the rest of us can “dream”, he is hinting towards his own freedom from the invisible bondage that the elite/govt/authorities etc have created to pin down our whole freedoms. Like he says, if only he truly had his civil rights.

When he said “in a few days, you know I’m conscious dreaming”, its irony. In other words, he is breaking free from this supposed bondage, and he will do something unimaginable, the unimaginable being that which breaks the barriers imposed upon us “normal” people by the “controllers’ so to speak. He will do what we feel is wrong, but according to him, what we feel is wrong is only because our minds are being controlled, they have been preprogrammed and shaped so as not to see the significance/symbolism in his actions-that he has seen the invisible chains and broken free, and that now he is going to do something about it to prove his freedom, and at the same time to open our eyes as well.

You must remember that he is using irony in his dialogue when he refers to dreamers. You could equate his “dreamers” to anarchists, or anyone who can see beyond the mainstream and beyond what is presented to us. In actuality, the dreamers are the realists of this world, the ones who know the truth about the government, the environment, wars, disease, all those conspiracy theories that seem everyday to be less theory and more fact.

Remember the first part his talk of years? The 982,128,927,912 BCE nonsense? Well if you read his conclusion, you would have to admit that yes, he is right. If I try to think in his place, what he is trying to imply is that one thing is, or isn’t, period. Things are actually much more clear than they appear. You just have to have the clarity of thought to begin with. In that statement, where he concludes by saying “Therefore, the year previous of‘X’ is ‘X’. In other words, (trying to speak from his POV) “I see with clarity, and what I have to say is something that should be just as obvious as this riddle of years is”. So we must try to think without prejudice and only from his POV what seems obvious to him, and that year riddle was like a conditioning exercise for us who do not at the moment see like him, to now at the very least try to see like him.

By BCE having no point of beginning, unless you take it from the exact point of the creation or interpretation of time, how could ADE ever have its own point of origin? BCE and ADE would be one endless point in time. This is what I believe he is trying to say when he talks about time. He seems to understand that times limit is only produce by ones inability to interpret time itself, and that is it only because “we” have created points in time, that time exists, such as seconds and years. Otherwise if we had not created points in time, time would either never have existed or always have existed-but never realized, because it was neverending and impossible to identify in origin. Time would be endless. ADE would be (and is according to him) forever. That is until someone in some high authority decides to split time once again, yet the paradoc would continue.

When he talks about forming an 8 year old’s mind, he is explaining without the process of explanation that we “normal” people require, that all of us are capable of being formed and taught anything, for so long as it is impressed upon us enough. After this he goes on to say that “any person who is mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency”, or in other words, that if we can be impressed upon, we can also impress; that if we have the capability to think for ourselves, we can therefore share our thoughts. What we know, we are able to impart. But What do we know? Only what others know. I believe these are the sorts of questions he wants us to ask ourselves. The currency and treasurer are just a metaphors for an individuals thought and the actions, or more correctly, our potential to act within our own individuality. In other words, to create a new way of living, a new system of government, a new currency that others can also purchase with if they themselves do not have a “valuable currency” of their own. But the fact, he concludes, that we all have the ability to create out own “currency” (realities/thoughts) is something that we all should understand. We all have freedom. We have civil rights and liberties. But like he seems to suggest, those have been taken away and we don’t even know it, and now we are slaves to another entities “currency”. Im beginning to think the murders were his way of proving he was a free individual, to a certain extent. But I haven’t finished his intro video yet, and there are still 4 more. So Ill continue.

He then questions us. You’re a treasurer for a new currency, listener? You create and distribute your own currency, listener? You do not allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener? This is a rhetorical question. Because we do allow an authority to determine our grammar structure, we are therefore slaves to that authority’s currency, because we only know as much “grammar” (of reality) as the authority has taught us. Therefore, we are only issuing an old currency. Until we discover reality beyond the confines in which we are stuck, beyond what is taught to us, we will be under “control”. He is telling us to wake up.

He says all humans need sleep, including himself. But then he says he is a perpetual sleep walker, meaning he is always asleep, yet still active, unlike us, who only sleep in intervals. I don’t think he is saying he is hypnotized or anything of the sort. Here he sort of mixed up a realistic conclusion with a fantastic explanation from which he derived a secondary conclusion. Well if we are to take his ironic suggestions early that we are all asleep or unaware of reality, then he is saying that he is always aware, but saying it in riddle. Or he is living in the same dream as us, but never waking up like we do. Hm. if we go back and forth between waking up and sleep, then that means there are moments of epiphany that we each experience, but do not cling on to like him? Those moments of epiphany to us, of realization, are equivalent to dreams. And actual dreams are product of conscious dreaming, or controlled dreaming, therefore, not real dreams. And he goes on to say that he is consciously dreaming, but conscious dreaming at the moment is asleep, therefore he is also asleep. If I am to take him for his irony, that means he is actually “awake”, aware, clear…

He says that we will term him as a terrorist, someone politically motivated, according to his definition. And that when we call him a terrorist, we are in fact only trying undermine him, that we are presenting a farcical explanation of him in order to distort who he really is. With this is mind, we should therefore not term him as a terrorist, and we should certainly not trust a single notion presented by anyone to try and define him, unless it comes directly from him, as he subscribes to the idea that “one is only as much as another so believes”. But he is clearly warning us not judge him or accept any argument that may muddy his image. We must see beyond the fact that he is a murder, we must see beyond his political views, we must see beyond whatever else the media may try to paint him as. That does not mean we should forgive him or accept his murders, and Im not suggesting at all he did anything acceptable by killing innocent people. But for the sake of understanding this man, I believe we should follow his advice.

He is from the military. He is not religious. He says this himself. He is not or does not subscribe to any religion. Yet he was given a mini bible upon recruitment? He is trying to imply something here. Is it possible he was saying he was indoctrinated into something? Being a recruit, was he chosen to be a part of something secret, hence the Bible, or “book of conduct”, even though he did not want to be, or maybe he did? This does not necessarily mean he joined any religious sect or cult, but I believe he is trying to tell us he was introduced into something. And the tests? Why, if we are take his writings at face value, would they give a mini-bible before an army test? Can anyone in the military elaborate on this? Otherwise I can only speculate that he was in fact taken under the wing of some secret entity, or that some entity is trying to impose some sort of thought process or idea upon him and possibly the entire military as well. But he makes it clear that he has no beliefs, meaning he could have been against what they were trying to impose upon him. This could be a motive for the murders. It is possible that he was under pressure from some government entity, and that this entity is doing something that he does not agree with, and that the murders and attempted murder of the specific authorities at Tucson may have been related to this entity, and he did something so terrible in the hopes that none of us could pretend to not notice anymore, so that all of us would discover what he knew.

At this point you might be thinking, “well why didn’t he just tell us?” First off, so far from the first two vids alone I am starting to believe he had some kind of connection to the government that would have made it difficult for him to do so even if he wanted to. So he chose riddles. Yes, he is certainly strange to begin with, but that only makes the riddles more important to decipher. But lets just put our doubts aside and continue

The reference to the constitution I do not think is too hard to understand. Read the constitution to understand how our government is committing treason in numerous ways. I would have to support this. He then again calls us out on our literacy, seeming to taunt us to do something which we would normally not do, which is read the constitution.

He is trying to incite a revolution, and he is telling us that even though the laws are against us, and even though our property does not belong to us, revolution will always belong to the revolutionary. This is following in line with the Bolsheviki propaganda during the Russian Revolution, and it is true. Read “Ten Days That Shook the World”, and you will see that is trying to inspire revolution, or at least get the ball moving. The Moron just chose the worst way possible. Sadly, when I really think about it, this might have been the only way possible. He had to grab the most attention he could, otherwise he would have failed from the start. You may argue that by murdering he failed, but once again I implore you, just as he is, to see beyond the murders, and even beyond the superficial politics, and take into consideration what he is saying in his videos-what I’m trying to make sense of now. He used the sickest method to do us Americans the greatest good. He is no hero. He is a murderer. But we are not looking to give him a title. We are only seeking to discover the reasons. Please keep this in mind.

In his third vid, How to:Mind controller, he is directly stating government control over history and beliefs, or whatever authority controls the systems by which we learn it. He is saying that anyone who edits religion and beliefs until the end of the time, or in his words the “final century”, that this person is just as good as the original writer, the person who created the belief in the first place, which makes sense. He then goes on to say that he is his own writer and editor, he controls every belief and religion- he controls his own mind. He is trying to show us, even ask us that we have to have control over ours. He seems to believe that if we did, we would be thinking along the same lines as him, that being revolutionary thought. Once again, his process of thinking is a bit strange, but he is beginning to make much sense. Still, hes a damned murderer. But it is important for everyone, including the prosecutor during his trials and the judge who declares his guilt, to understand what he meant by his murders, not simply that he is a murderer, otherwise we will all would have let him down, and apparently ourselves and our country. To me, he is beginning to look like the worst patriot we ever had. But then again, he says he is not politically motivated, or was he saying that he was, but just not affiliated with any ideology other than what now appears to be a constitutionalist ideology? Its easy to see just by his connection to the tea party that this may be the case, but it seems he predicted and is warning us not to get caught in the party frenzy. I think we should take his advice.

Anyways.

He says we are all victims of fraud because what we purchase is not really ours. This is speculative, but when you think about your cars, property, assets… your just paying to be the caretaker of it all. Real estate does not belong to any private owner, we all know this much. He mentions his education is unconstitutional and cites Section 10 of the constitution of the USA. Sadly, he did mention which article, so I am thinking he meant the first since it is the only one with 10 sections:


Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 10 - Powers Prohibited of States
No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.


---Im not entirely sure where he is drawing this conclusion from. He follows it up by saying that if you are receiving a grade from the college he attends (and probably every other college), that it is unconstitutional because of the Bill of Rights, and that grades which you “purchased by means of tuition” is fraudulent and unconstitutional. I suppose this last remark is taking things a bit out of context, because we pay tuition for the education and course, not the grade. In the most positive way I can think of this last remark, he puts up a good reform policy. “Pay according to your Grade”. But the most troublesome part is what he means when he says that receiving grades in college crosses the Bill of Rights. I wish he had explained further, as I can only think of so many ways to connect the dots, and I don’t want to place more words in his mouth than I already have. Therefore I would conclude that it is possible he meant for college students or anyone reading his videos for that matter to read the constitution, and read the Bill of Rights, not to discover how our college educations are unconstitutional, but so to become aware of the constitution once again and begin to compare what it states is lawful and what is our rights, and what is unlawful and treasonous, and take action?

He goes on to rant about the unconstitutionality of free education provided by the government. I believe this is because the constitution never allowed the government to do so, but also never explicitly said it could not either. It is one of those situations where a loophole was found and exploited, and he obviously does not like this. This goes as well for the police comments. He then tells us we are illiterate and do not know English grammar. Its obvious he is referring to how lawyers and politicians, and essentially we who follow the educational system they create, have misunderstood or completely and consciously manipulated the clear wording of the constitution. Once again, he reminds us that every individual has the power to create his own reality, thus subsequently implying that all are also capable to be delusioned by anothers reality. He concludes by telling us not to trust the government because the institutions it has created for us and by which it conditions us is unconstitutional, therefore invalid, and that if we follow along the path they have carved, we are unconstitutional beings. We are traitors. Obviously the conclusions he has drawn are condensed, but that does not mean he is wrong.



Finally we are at the last Video, How To: Your New Currency! (Your new mind/thoughts).
He is talking about building up your individuality. That’s obvious. He is saying that it matters not what you name it, when it came into being, or how much of it you have. He is saying that you can impose your new currency violently (as he did) or non violently. But now you have a new currency. You have a new coin that you did not have before. In other words, If I have been close to right in explaining what he was trying to say in all his vids, his thoughts through my words are now creating a new thought (currency) in you, which cannot be used in an old monetary system (thought process), which requires a new monetary system (new thought process) from which you can begin to collect more of the new currency (more information on these new thoughts) and distribute it (impose either violently or non violently), as you are the treasurer (the one in control) of your currency (your thoughts), that is IF you are literate (self reliant, creative, an individual, and not controlled by the subversive and unconstitutional methods of govt).



So people. What do you think of him now? Hes a sick murderer, but he was not insane. He had a purpose, and he was quite clear while trying to get it across. He was hypnotized, he was free. To me, he was the US’s equivalent of an Islamic freedom fighter. He martyred whatever was left of his freedom, and he tried to take others with him. I think now that yes, he used Youtube to propagate his ideas, of course. He wanted this message to get out, and he wanted to to spread like a virus. The murderes were premeditated, but controlled by someone else? That’s is just about as close to opposite as you can get. He in fact is trying to show you that you are the one who is being controlled, and that only because he was free, sleepwalking, consciously dreaming... whatever he wants to call it, that he was able to do what he did.

What I am not understanding is the alter that was found. He says he had no religious belief. He had no mainstream political view. Regardless, I care not for his beliefs. I hope you all can at the very least see the message of his actions.

Thank you for your well thought out post, asperetty. I was really hoping for responses like yours... ones that try to sift through the convolution of the man's postings to reach the philosophy within.

Originally posted by asperetty
What I am not understanding is the alter that was found. He says he had no religious belief. He had no mainstream political view. Regardless, I care not for his beliefs. I hope you all can at the very least see the message of his actions.

He wasn't interested in religion itself but he was interested in the pyschological motivating effect religion has on people. Instead of being Christian and trying to emulate Jesus, the archetype of love and compassion, he clearly chose a different archetype to worship. It doesn't surprise me at all, in fact, it actually seems to me exactly like the type of thing he would do.


I do disagree with you about currency just being an idea. I think he was talking about actual coins. His first post in the currency thread shows that he seems to be talking about real coins, and also highlights his narcissism and his desire to be somehow involved as a founder of the new currency.

If the treasury creates a new currency then the new currency will replace the previous currency.
The treasury creates a new currency.
Therefore, the new currency will replace the previous currency.

If the treasury creates one new currency then why couldn't they create an infinite amount?

Wouldn't be beautiful to see your face on the new coins?

Originally posted by Albastion

Originally posted by quantum_flux
Maybe he thought he was a pirate with a hairless cyclops parrot on his shoulder? Pirates are often notorious for hating governments.

edit on 10-1-2011 by quantum_flux because:

Maybe you should get out of my thread if you have nothing of substance to contribute.

You only think there is nothing of substance in what I said, but there most certainly is. Pirate symbolism is taken very seriously within the Libertarian movement. You think I am joking, however I am not (I've been to a tea party before, one of the signs was "The real pirates are in Washington", of course the guy was dressed like a pirate too). Hollywood puts out signals in their movies, the Pirates of the Carribean being a praise of the idea of fighting against governments. What if this Loughner guy were watching one of those movies under the influence of hypnotic drugs?

PS - this is a public thread and anybody can post here if they want. You don't have the authority to tell me not to comment here any more than I have the authority to tell you not to comment on my threads, only the mods can remove comments and such, which is a rare occurrence.

reply to post by Albastion


Jared Loughner was Influenced by Hypnosis




that open the door to saying he was programmed, perhaps even a Manchurian Candidate zombie
programmed to kill his representative,



If you've seen the full face frontal thats been released, all skin-head/shaved, including the eyebrows...
this is all for effect... the media is lapping up the wacko lunatic pose... earlier MSNBC stock shots
were of him 2 weeks ago wearing a black knit cap

The Media is going over the top in painting him like the Murrah Building bomber in OK City


there is a littlle note that he was supposedly interacting with a 'American Resurrection'
website that is associated with white-power/skinhead ideas and anti-illegal alien rhetoric
in the "send-them back" sense.
the earlier article says he's tight lipped, not speaking to anyone....


if its' hypnosis, then it would seem to be a state of self-hypnosis, designed to have himself commit acts he
would not perform in his natural, logical, intellectual mind



CORRECTION: the site was "American Renaissiance"

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by Albastion

 

if its' hypnosis, then it would seem to be a state of self-hypnosis, designed to have himself commit acts he
would not perform in his natural, logical, intellectual mind

I absolutely DO NOT believe he was a Manchurian candidate. In my first post I clearly state outright that I don't think he's really been hypnotized; I think he is faking. The Manchurian Candidate theory seems really outlandish and crank-ish to me, and I'm not willing to entertain such weird beliefs when Occam's razor suggests a much simpler explanation. I believe that he researched mind control, which he clearly did because he made a video about it. It is entirely plausible that he could be pretending to be hypnotized to try to elicit a response from sensitive groups like the mentally unstable.

Think about it: inciting violence against the government is the end goal of his videos, so it makes sense that he would try to shape his persona in a way that mess with the minds of sensitive or unstable people and incite them to violence. He is like Charlie Manson, he was fully in control of his actions and should be held 100% responsible for them.

I believe he is guilty of first degree murder. I personally want to see him end up in solitary. If you actually read my posts in this topic my opinion is very clear. I think he is a murderer who was mentally ill but not clinically insane and I think that we can prove his act was first degree murder if we can piece together his motivations.

I don't think he was self-hypnotized, but even if he was self-hypnotized I still think he can be held accountable for deliberately twisting his own mind.

My opinion on this situation is very clear if you read some of my other quotes about him. I want him to rot in prison for his conscious decision to murder innocent people. I just really really want it to be proven that this guy was not insane. If we can prove that he researched all this stuff beforehand it is just more evidence to show that he was fully in control of his actions and was trying to make a piece of media that would be taken seriously by cranks. Even if he claims after to have no memory of the event itself, his videos should be enough evidence to put him away forever.

Originally posted by Albastion
Remember - I'm not trying to suggest he was actually hypnotized. I think it's far more likely that he is a narcissistic sociopath with delusions of persecution. Clearly the murder was premeditated, so I think the hypnosis is a 'spin' or possible justification/insanity plea argument. I hope he gets whats coming to him.

Originally posted by Albastion
Perhaps he was trying to make himself fit the mold of a hypnotized person to mitigate responsibility for his actions by claiming these things in his videos that can't really be proven but seem creepy. IE the bird, the sleepwalking after he hits the alarm, etc... His act was premeditated so it makes sense that he would start trying to diffuse responsibility for the act before he carried it out.

Originally posted by Albastion
The guy calls himself a terrorist and symbolically advocates the overthrow of the US government with his demonic eagle symbol that he wants people "to die for", and calls for a new currency and a new language. I think his actions were quite clearly premeditated and he should spend time in prison for shooting a member of congress in the head and trying to incite people to do similar actions through his media. I will be very disappointed if he is found clinically insane.

Originally posted by quantum_flux

Originally posted by Albastion

Originally posted by quantum_flux
Maybe he thought he was a pirate with a hairless cyclops parrot on his shoulder? Pirates are often notorious for hating governments.

edit on 10-1-2011 by quantum_flux because:

Maybe you should get out of my thread if you have nothing of substance to contribute.

You only think there is nothing of substance in what I said, but there most certainly is. Pirate symbolism is taken very seriously within the Libertarian movement. You think I am joking, however I am not (I've been to a tea party before, one of the signs was "The real pirates are in Washington", of course the guy was dressed like a pirate too). Hollywood puts out signals in their movies, the Pirates of the Carribean being a praise of the idea of fighting against governments. What if this Loughner guy were watching one of those movies under the influence of hypnotic drugs?

PS - this is a public thread and anybody can post here if they want. You don't have the authority to tell me not to comment here any more than I have the authority to tell you not to comment on my threads, only the mods can remove comments and such, which is a rare occurrence.

edit on 10-1-2011 by quantum_flux because:

You can comment but I would prefer if you would discuss a serious topic seriously. You can't possibly expect me to believe that you aren't joking or trolling when you post that nonsense. You do make a good point though, this is a public forum.

If a mod is reading this, please move this thread into RATS! I'm trying to get good quality posts here. If possible I would also appreciate a title change to: Jared Loughner was Influenced by Hypnosis (But was not really Hypnotized). My current title implies that he was hypnotized but I meant to imply that he was influenced by the scholarly field of hypnosis. Thank you!

reply to post by Albastion


I get it, you don't think he was hypnotized, my bad. You are the one who brought it up though, so I was just giving a valid hypothesis for how he might have been hypnotized which you happen to discount as being preposterous (I don't think it is so preposterous however, the guy did appear to believe he had a bird on his shoulder, which is absolutely a pirate hallucination in my valid opinion). I think that even if he was under hypnosis or psychedelic drugs or alcohol or pot or subliminal messages or schizophrenic that he is still guilty regardless, since he pulled the trigger, at least in the objective sense the thought "aim and fire" was entirely his own. Whether in a legal sense or not is something that the courts will decide, everybody is innocent until proven guilty in the court of US law.

There is some evidence.speculation that Salvia played a part in the creeping madness that enveloped Loughner during the year leading up to the mass murders. According to his friend, Loughner abused substances including alcohol and also Salvia, a powerful hallucinogenic drug from Mexico.

Evidence Arizona shooter driven mad by Mexican hallucinogen Salvia

www.helium.com...

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