Giving up The Ego to become a slave...

But its so far from that ......there are genuine individuals who have had their own egos die permanently and are now communicated from a state of No ego.... amongst other things also saying how free and awesome and truthful that state is. It doesn't make them any different from others in the case that there is still a body with senses there and a mind to formulate, intellect etc....

My point was that they make this claim, but there's no way to validate their claims. Not a single way to verify any of it. They could be literally drowning in their own lies and there's no way to know.

reply to post by NorEaster


If anyone makes the claim of having rid oneself of ego, it is practically certain that this is evidence they are still operating within ego. It is akin to taking pride in no longer being proud.

In the eastern mystic traditions, it is considered that the ego is more difficult to spot than a black ant on a black rock on a dark night, and even more difficult to eliminate.

reply to post by NorEaster

What I am suggesting is that I don't know you, and therefore your claim to have remembered something that I honestly believe to be literally impossible is as valid as my brother's claim to have levitated through the wall into the air above his front yard, where he had a meeting with Jesus.

Maybe you did experience this memory, but it doesn't add anything to the discussion. Perception is what it is, and while it's valuable in its own right, it doesn't affect reality.

What could have realistically happened to your brother, was an out-of-body experience. In that state, awareness itself leaves the body ...but it may very well feel like it is 'you' (body and all) that levitated, went out the window, and so forth"

Perception doesn't affect reality? Wow ..... I dont know about that one. What is reality? What is perception. Just the other month I was telling my sister how thoughts affect reality ...her not believing me ...I asked her to think about and agree to a certain event would happen in the grocery store we were headed to ( and gave fine details, the color of the girls hair and eyes, exactly what she would say, and so on ....We go to the grocery store ...forget about our discussion, and then in the last second before we leave ...the event happens ...and she completely freaks out.

How about this experiment here in Princeton with a random number generator that spits out randomly 0's and 1's and found that a person sitting next to the box wanting more 0's to come up brings up that reality, and vice versa with 1's.
Black Box
Certainly shows that at least if not thought, then will, or some other factor definitely affects reality

I'm sorry, but you can say what you like, but I challenge you to defend these two assertions with logic or any version of unrelated empirical data.

logic or empirical data huh? Ok let me work something out and get back to you on that. It will require some research as far as the semantic fields of both those words (empirical & logic) within the majority agreed upon meanings. Also I'm going to have to dig out Empedocles or one of the other ancient philosophers who said that we can use logic to come to a conclusion that there is just One thing, One reality ...that everything else including a perceivable separation is a factual illusion of the mind. Let me get back to this.....

You are only the generated information from your brain, and within each burst of generated information (Intellect) your Primary Expression acts like the DNA in your cells to absolutely Identify that burst as having been authored by your brain. Yes, I can prove this claim by laying out a very precise logic and empirical data structure that makes it inescapable, and in my book TAKING DOWN THE CURTAIN this is what I do. Believe what you want, but if you want to offer it as fact, you'll need to be able to defend it with something. Anyone can state whatever they want to state, but none of it changes what's real.

Yes but awareness is aware prior to any information to the brain, and awareness is not generated by the brains information. Can you substantiate your claim in a shorter paraphrased manner than a whole book?

Must be quite a defense in traffic court. Dude, when you open your mouth, when you type a board post, when you hit reply, it's you that's doing it. What you're claiming simply doesn't make any sense, and like I keep saying, making a claim isn't the same thing as proving it. Even a basic logical defense would be helpful, but I've yet to see anything that resembles logic associated with this notion that someone can actually shed their own existential nature at will.

There is no I doing it ......its just being done on its own. A bird passes by the window ....I had no say in it. A thought pops up in consciousness randomly ...I see it, but had no choice in its formation. I is illusion. Tell me where is 'I' located. If you lose all limbs are you still there, if they can just animate your head with machinery are you there, if its in your head then where in the head? In the middle, the back, the whole thing?

Its sooooooo simple and so extremely obvious. Awareness perceives thought, perceives that the mind thinks that 'I' exist, perceives habits, likes, dislikes. How can that which is observed be the observer? It is completely logical and makes perfect sense.

Its not that someone can shed their own existential nature at will, there is just a seeing that existential nature is not who I am ......it can be observed therefor is that which can be observed the same as the observer? I see a rock ...but I am not that rock. I see that the mind thinks it is I ......therefor that thought 'I' is not I.

Dude this took years for me to make sense. The sense, logic, and obviousness is there but it is extremely subtle.

Everything that you claim is related to your assertion that you've become enlightened and have overcome the dread ego.

Show me where I said I'm enlightened and have overcome the ego? I have merely seen what I am not .....I have seen the ego for what it is. And now begins the allowance to drop that which is not I, and everything the revolves around false thought.

If your claim that you can assume the "I" in order to post here, and then immediately shed it to resume your ego-less existence isn't claiming that you've mastered the battle to conquer the ego, then I have no idea what you think such a claim is.

There are still all these subtle pieces left of the ego that come up, that were too subtle to be noticed before, then when at work, or bumping into a friend at the store ......the mechanisms and mechanics that make up the ego form to communicate ...and sometimes One forgets that these mechanisms are not 'I' ...then the moment passes and the clear seeing that the ego is not 'I' comes back to the forefront and is dropped.

By no means is it yet mastered ...and then who would master it ? Another ego? No ...it doesnt work that way ...it is seen for what it is, dropped, and eventually a permanent state of no I remains. 'I' am not at that permanence yet.......

I used to work in the entertainment industry. For 30 years I had to deal with "humble showboats", so it's not as if I don't recognize it when I run into it. The real pros are gifted at that one ability, and for the most part, that's what separated the pros from the wannabes. Talent and creativity isn't anywhere near as important as being able to self-promote without seeming full of yourself. It's a delicate balance, and no, I never mastered it (obviously).

what-ever that means .....it definitely looks like an implication that everything I have said thus fair is some sort of get up ....Thing is ....I came across books and individuals that talk about this, have claimed this. and have shown how to get "there." So I kept an open mind and studied, listened, and all of it eventually not only made complete and perfect logical sense .....but also begin to become experiential sense/knowledge.

There is nothing here to gain for me...... if anything I want self mastery, to know the absolute truth even if it costs me myself (yes rather selfish) but selfishness dies at the end of this path anyway. Not looking for followers, not writing any books, others have already done so and have put it in terms much better than I have.

I simply came to the table with an open mind and acknowledged the possibility of a real and permanent ego death..... and saw glimpses of this as a real reality along the way.

The nail in the coffin is to step to this branch of knowledge with preconceived notion that cannot be changed. That would be death.

We only think that we are. Thats what the ego is ....is the the thought 'I'.... but the thought of something isn't the real something. Just like the thought of the rock I have in my hand isn't the same nor anywhere close to the actual rock that is in my hand prior to and after I ever have a thought about it. So you too ...the real you ....are before and after what you think yourself to be.

consequently ...who you think yourself to be ..is also just pure made up imagination and is not the real.

I'm sorry, but this post completely contradicts itself. I don't know which part of the contradiction to deal with, so I'll pass. If anyone does agree with what you've posted here, it won't matter what I respond with anyway.

Please show me one of those contradictions. I assure you any one you bring that 'seems' to be one, can easily be resolved. Besides that there are mountains of books written on this subject alone ...so obviously there seems to be a circle of people that gets this.

Try the kind of logic that serves the existential structure that allows you to even have a thought about any of this. Empirical data in helpful and so is philosophy (as long as it doesn't run you into a blind alley), but the fundamental tool is the same logical constant that the rest of everything is anchored on. What any of us wants doesn't matter. Reality is what it is.

very well ....the situation at hand the is that you say you are ...but I say that in truth there is no you, I, we, them, us.... its all the minds projection/labeling/separation. Reality is what it is and it is One thing.

Who is right? I don't know about yourself, but I can bring at least 100 books to the table to support this view that 'I' is an illusion and not real and that we are not the ego. If you can do the same on your point of view, then do bring it and we can compare notes.

If you change the word "knowings" to "perceptions" in your section here then I think we can agree on what it is that transformed your perception of the concept of ego death. Really. Try it. What you describe is what makes Intellect different from data-centric information. It's human perception, pure and simple.

Ok so "experiential perceptions" .....wouldn't they by more truthful and real than conceptual understandings? Or are they both technically the same? Seems here that experience is more real that the thought about it.

My point was that they make this claim, but there's no way to validate their claims. Not a single way to verify any of it. They could be literally drowning in their own lies and there's no way to know. You say that you believe them, but that only means that you believe them. It doesn't mean that they're being honest. Also, there's that tricky issue of delusion and ignorance. Good luck trying to navigate that nightmare in the world of the transcendental.

There is nothing to gain from making this into a bunch of lies and telling others about it. Many of these folks have no books to sell, no religions to join, no programs to pay for. Its just sit down and talk to see if this is really real.... with nothing asked in return. ...and so upon further investigation ...every single angle and perspective I had was completely destroyed when I heard someone say that...

"the thought of a rock is not a rock, and so who you think you are is not who you are"

This completely crushed every frame of reference, what I thought I knew, who I thought I was, what is and isn't real ...all came crumbling in an instant and what was left in its path was this crystal clear and seemingly primordial state of consciousness. Then soon as thoughts popped up to try to figure that brilliance out ...it all dissappeared ...and since then reappears more and more the closer I get to seeing and letting go of what and who I'm not.

Then to see others come and argue this, many with exactly the same stance you have ....and then to eventually come to this brilliant insight that I had also, and leaving all of their own biases and frames of reference in the dust as well. I just see this over and over again not only in philosophical group setting but also by explaining this to others.

I sat with a kid for 3 hours debating, arguing, talking and finally it all made sense to him and that brilliance appeared and changed him for the rest of his life. He said everything he read, knew, experienced thus far is absolutely nothing in comparison to the Brilliance of that (which to him is the Absolute God)

All of these people, including myself ....have one thing in common ...they say that this, exact subject that I am discussing and the subsequent realizations/insights/experiences that come from them .......show to them that they literally have been sleep walking all their lives, that now they see the possibility of ego death, of a state of absolute freedom.... and just like the scientific method ...it is something that shows itself to be a repeatable outcome ......and yet a small number of people (no offense to you of course) just never get what is being said. ...it took me a few years personally speaking. Others minutes, some hours, etc

So if you want some kind of validation through science, MRI's, or other set standards .....to validate something that is completely beyond any set of standards then we may have to part ways there. But for me having seen it directly and seen it happen directly in others is more than enough especially knowing that science itself has no idea about this Absolute reality..... except possibly hinting at it theoretically in quantum physics.

Experience involves perception. The development of perspective is what occurs as a direct result of experience. Good luck with that one.

So what do I do and what can I say having experience a state of all perspectives at once at the same time? Because that is something definitely that was experienced and I have found others who have experienced this .......and at the same time it is as if experience happens without any perspective to attach to it. It is objectivity in a sense .....

These are good riffs, but nothing that you claim is even fully described. None of it. I don't know if you can tell, but I have a pretty good ability to connect dots and find the whole within a gathering of presented parts. I've read these posts and run the links down to be honest, none of it presents a coherent whole.

were discussing details and I can easily connect the dots for you. You want a coherent whole? Everything is one thing. Us thinking that we are separate from everything else is the only thing that creates the illusion that we are separate entities. There is only consciousness ......infinite ......One...... Ego death is a direct knowing, experience, perception of that One from the perspective of that One (objectivity) since all subjectivity relies on the Illusion that 'I' is a separate I.

It reminds me of lyrics to David Bowie songs - just a collection of phrases that don't really amount to anything in the end. No big deal when it comes to pop songs, but when basing one's approach to reality on riffs...I don't know....I wouldn't choose to.

yeah agreed ...(Words) its all straw, all semantic fields at the end, subject to the filters and current level of awareness of the illusion of a subjective readers perspective.

What we have at the end also is your experience as you, and my experience as no me, no others, just what is and what is is Alive.

If you'd like to better understand why I see things as I do, then I invite you to try taking my book on. The link is in my signature and at least you'll know exactly why reality looks as it does to me. Yes, I will look into these authors. This is my year for doing that work. Thank you for those names.

ok will do ...will also post some vids and other must reads....

Originally posted by dominicus

You are only the generated information from your brain, and within each burst of generated information (Intellect) your Primary Expression acts like the DNA in your cells to absolutely Identify that burst as having been authored by your brain. Yes, I can prove this claim by laying out a very precise logic and empirical data structure that makes it inescapable, and in my book TAKING DOWN THE CURTAIN this is what I do. Believe what you want, but if you want to offer it as fact, you'll need to be able to defend it with something. Anyone can state whatever they want to state, but none of it changes what's real.

Yes but awareness is aware prior to any information to the brain, and awareness is not generated by the brains information. Can you substantiate your claim in a shorter paraphrased manner than a whole book?

No. It takes the reader learning the true nature of identity, survival, physical existence, progressive development, the imperative/qualifier relationship and how it impacts all of what I just listed, and how information and activity work in symbiosis to ensure the survival of each other, before that subject can even be approached. Maybe your philosophy can be bulleted, but this is reality I'm talking about. Reality exists as a very large interconnected matrix of implications and ramifications.

What, you thought this was a book of philosophy? It's not. It's as close to a straightforward description of physical reality as you'll ever find anywhere, and there's nothing philosophical about any of it. Philosophy is fun and some of it is even clever, but the difference between understanding philosophy and comprehending reality is the difference between farting and taking a real body cleansing dump. Both smell like sh*t, but only one leaves you feeling as if you've actually accomplished something.

I don't know if this is the right site for me to be trying to introduce an entirely new approach to understanding what constitutes reality. I originally assumed that this was a place where people embraced new ideas, but it doesn't seem to be true at all about the people who flock here. Maybe it's not the adventurous thinker who digs into things to find out the truth about what's going on beneath the surface of our society? Maybe it's the frightened thinker who is trying to verify what he/she already has determined to be the truth about how messed up things have gotten? In that case, all I'm doing is scaring people even further into their burrows with what I've discovered. That wasn't my intention.

I've search everywhere for anyone that has an open mind, but who also needs reality to make sense with what has been proven to be real. That fine balance between logic and possibility, where the truth that we obviously don't possess yet likely exists. So far, these folks just don't seem to exist. I know they have to be out there somewhere, but I haven't seen a sign of them yet.

They say that the truth needs protection, but I don't know if I believe that anymore. I think that the truth has nothing at all to fear in this world as it is and has always been. It can sit right out there and wave at folks like one of those old guys who get it in his head to sit on a chair in front of his house and wave at all the cars passing by until someone finally packs him off to a retirement facility where he can be properly cared for. No one will ever pay any attention to it, and it'll eventually just go away again until some other idiot trips over it and thinks that it'll be different this time if he trots it back out again.

But it won't be different. Oh, it'll be different, in that this time he/she won't get burned at a stake, or turned into mulch by church or government jackboots, but the net result will be the same. The crazy sh*t will still be embraced as reality, and the perennial self-assured snake oil salesmen will continue to sell franchises to new and improved prophets as generations replace generations. And people will still wonder why everything is so screwed up, and why nothing ever really adds up when you start looking too hard at it. But then the alarm clock will go off again for them and it'll be back to the real world of getting paid to make someone else rich - all that philosophical bullsh*t sent back to the folks who get paid to figure it out for everyone. After all, everyone has their job to do, and if you aren't getting paid to do something then what the hell are you doing wasting your time bothering with it?

This couple weeks has been a real eye opener. Thanks for your relentlessness. I couldn't have disagreed with you more if we'd been rehearsed, and the fact that I never laid a glove on yours or anyone else's intellectual perception - despite what I honestly thought was a good effort on my part - indicates to me that what I have to offer the rationalist isn't what folks here are looking for. There are people - somewhere - who aren't looking for magical answers or for their own version of reality to be finally approved by whomever it is that can approve such things. I'll find those people, and when I do, I'll have some really good news for them.

Take it easy. I think that you and I are all set as far as debating any of this anymore.

reply to post by NorEaster

What, you thought this was a book of philosophy? It's not. It's as close to a straightforward description of physical reality as you'll ever find anywhere, and there's nothing philosophical about any of it.

But physical reality isn't all there is ...even the quantum fields substantiate that not just theoretically but also with mathematical models. Even if your whole basis is just "physical reality" based and also based on the current understanding of what science knows thus far, then by all means its relative and may forced to change upon new findings.

Philosophy is fun and some of it is even clever, but the difference between understanding philosophy and comprehending reality is the difference between farting and taking a real body cleansing dump. Both smell like sh*t, but only one leaves you feeling as if you've actually accomplished something.

The extremely beautiful nature of philosophy is that it accepts that we can use logic to come to the conclusion that logic itself is limited and relative ...and then dares to go to places that may be beyond relativity and logic. Physical reality and the current understanding of it doesn't really leave much room to comprehend the transcendent unless we start to dismantle the quantum fields. It takes certain philosophical studies for people to even begin to comprehend or imagine the possibility of something beyond the everyday reality that everyone is accustomed to

I don't know if this is the right site for me to be trying to introduce an entirely new approach to understanding what constitutes reality.

Yes it is a site to introduce new ideas, challenge those that exist, and involve critical thinking in the process. However be aware that we have thousands(if not hundreds of thousands) of books by accredited scientific and highly respected genius level individuals. I highly hope that the presentation of something new in these fields, that you have at least done a MAJOR amount of homework based on what others have said as far as how reality operates ...and also that you leave room to the possibilities that in some extents you may wrong.

I originally assumed that this was a place where people embraced new ideas, but it doesn't seem to be true at all about the people who flock here. Maybe it's not the adventurous thinker who digs into things to find out the truth about what's going on beneath the surface of our society? Maybe it's the frightened thinker who is trying to verify what he/she already has determined to be the truth about how messed up things have gotten? In that case, all I'm doing is scaring people even further into their burrows with what I've discovered. That wasn't my intention.

I mean I checked out your blog and some of what is written on there and it is a very rigid, technically, and detail orientated account of the inter connectedness of things. Maybe for someone who has a personality that deals strictly in that type of logical manner (like an Engineer friend of mine) ...it works. But some are feeling oriented, others through emotions, while others operate through intuition. My intuition says that much of what you have on your blogs will go completely over the heads of most people including the average Joe. Its the same as my case and what I'm trying to say on the nature of illusion ....it goes over most peoples heads, but every once in a while some-one gets it ...and for the most part many intuit that there is something to this....

I've search everywhere for anyone that has an open mind, but who also needs reality to make sense with what has been proven to be real. That fine balance between logic and possibility, where the truth that we obviously don't possess yet likely exists. So far, these folks just don't seem to exist. I know they have to be out there somewhere, but I haven't seen a sign of them yet.

On the other hand, I have found others who get what I am saying. Not just on ATS but at bars, get togethers, and philosophy clubs that talk about the nature of existence and similar topics. If you are having trouble finding people who get what you are saying, then perhaps its not that people dont get it ...but its your own presentation of it?

They say that the truth needs protection, but I don't know if I believe that anymore. I think that the truth has nothing at all to fear in this world as it is and has always been. It can sit right out there and wave at folks like one of those old guys who get it in his head to sit on a chair in front of his house and wave at all the cars passing by until someone finally packs him off to a retirement facility where he can be properly cared for. No one will ever pay any attention to it, and it'll eventually just go away again until some other idiot trips over it and thinks that it'll be different this time if he trots it back out again.

I dont really know what you think Truth is ...whether its of a relative or an absolute nature. I just feel that Truth can be known, wants to be know, and exists for the opportunity of someone to get to know that. If you have gotten to that knowing and experience of the truth through all the little fine details of science, logic, atoms, and everything else then cool for you. They say there as many paths to the truth as there are people. However if your finding very few people to get what you have to say, well then welcome to the club. Most are wrapped up in the projector that is their own mind and fake subjectivity bubbles..... good luck popping those.

- all that philosophical bullsh*t sent back to the folks who get paid to figure it out for everyone. After all, everyone has their job to do, and if you aren't getting paid to do something then what the hell are you doing wasting your time bothering with it?

I have found many people who's minds are not built for philosophy and its beauty.....so they can get there by Loving God, others get there through Mantras, others from a Near Death Experience, others by contemplating the interconnectedness of reality, choose your technique....

But I can find a handful of philosophers who say that your details of physical reality is also bullsh*t which begs the question who is right.

despite what I honestly thought was a good effort on my part - indicates to me that what I have to offer the rationalist isn't what folks here are looking for.

Well there you go ...you need rationalists to agree with you, to complete your circle. Your message is for a very select few and perhaps wasn't something you foresaw. Human nature is vastly complex and different sets of strengths/weaknesses require different approaches to reach that person. Its logical common sense.

There are people - somewhere - who aren't looking for magical answers or for their own version of reality to be finally approved by whomever it is that can approve such things.

Whoa hold your horses here for a sec. First off this is exactly what you have. A version of reality that you are presenting .....looking for approval of your version by others, and having trouble doing so it seems.

Only thing I am presenting is that all versions of what people think is reality is an illusion and if you really want to see an Absolute truth as a living reality uninhibited by the filters and programming that society, school, parents, peers, the world has created in your mind ....then it requires a stripping away of all of that to see as clearly as is possible to see.

I'll find those people, and when I do, I'll have some really good news for them.

I think you might do well in engineering departments, mathematicians, the science branches of university departments. But if thats the case I hope you did your homework and you can understand their framework of reference, thought, emotion, and being ...because those folks' bias all data in a certain format that requires you to mold and present what you think to be true in a specific package that will be acceptable by them to even start a dialogue.

Take it easy. I think that you and I are all set as far as debating any of this anymore.

Cool ....I think you may have parts of it ....but other pieces are still missing. Very rigid and mechanical it seems. Of course feel free to show otherwise. I have an openness and freedom to continue this debate ..there is no one here who is getting agitated or impatient in any of this. Rather its quite interesting and amusing if one steps back and sees the exchange.

Originally posted by dominicus
I have an openness and freedom to continue this debate ..there is no one here who is getting agitated or impatient in any of this. Rather its quite interesting and amusing if one steps back and sees the exchange.

Indeed, given the title of the thread~!

Carry on..

Originally posted by arpgme
Many religions teach that it's bad to focus on the self and material too much and that you are inferior and should worship some being higher than you. This is a trap to take away your self worth and to turn you into a mindless slave. The Bible is a book for enslavement, give up the Ego and you'll be lost and then they'll pretend to give you the cure but really control you with religion. Animals already know better than this, animals have the Ego and are proud of it. The Ego gives you power. The natural state of being is happiness, it's unnatural to find reasons to be unhappy and keep thinking about it instead of finding what makes you happy and going after that. The Ego is your connection with the flow of life. The universe is one huge energy and we are moving along with it and when you go for what makes you happy, you are in tune with the movement of the universe. So don't be a slave. Don't give up your self worth. Don't be offended when someone says "That's the Ego talking", because YOU know YOUR self worth and that's something to be proud about.

Here is a website on Spiritual Egoism:

egoism.yolasite.com...

edit on 8-1-2011 by arpgme because: Found more information on it

Greetings,

Very interesting perspective. I've also considered this.

According to the website you listed to the ego is a way of perceiving the world that every living creature shares with varying degrees of sophistication. Religion tries to rob of us this paradigm of perception and make us subservient to gods; god and in so doing enslaves us to their rule thereby depriving humanity of an inherent freedom given to us.

The premise is very shaky since egoism, itself, reinforces the idea of hierarchy; caste. One need simply look at the animal kingdom and the social structure of many species to see the similarities. Religion seems to be just another, more sophisticated, form of asserting egoistic dominance [egoism seems to be primarily control oriented].

Have you considered this view of religion?

Egoism does not reinforce the idea of a hierarchy, conceit does. Egoism is knowing yourself and your own worthiness, it's not saying that anyone is better than anyone else, conceit does this. The religious people at the top of the hierarchy are saying that they are high people and of god and that people need to listen to them, this is conceit, the belief that they are better than everyone else. Ego is just being in touch with self and knowing and appreciating yourself and finding ways to make yourself happy.

This ones conceptualization of ego is that it is simply another piece of the same thing. Like all the other pieces, one can get trapped in them as the totality of experience. Perhaps it is that final piece in the puzzle that illumines the whole picture, for some. Not a "giving up" of anything, but an acceptance and shift of different sorts.

Simply another layer in the sandwich

Originally posted by arpgme
Egoism does not reinforce the idea of a hierarchy, conceit does. Egoism is knowing yourself and your own worthiness, it's not saying that anyone is better than anyone else, conceit does this. The religious people at the top of the hierarchy are saying that they are high people and of god and that people need to listen to them, this is conceit, the belief that they are better than everyone else. Ego is just being in touch with self and knowing and appreciating yourself and finding ways to make yourself happy.

Hello,

Egoism is concerned with self and the sustenance of self generally speaking. I acknowledge the introspective element you attach to the definition of egoism. However, control or asset acquisition and management also falls into the domain of egoistic endeavor. Perhaps you are trying to redefine egoism?

reply to post by dominicus


Don't bother. Seriously. Your view in general doesn't feel that it requires any verification or even that verification is something that means anything. I have nothing to suggest to anyone who embraces such a view. If you're happy then good for you. It doeesn't matter what you say. Reality is what it is, and I won't bother anymore to try and convince unrealistic people to embrace reality. That sort of effort makes no sense whatsoever. I had my fun for a few days, but my work doesn't involve pushing a length of rope. When it become clear that it is a piece of rope that I'm trying to push, that is my cue to let the effort go.

There's a lot of crap that's been written, and most of it has been written by people hailed as geniuses. That's nothing new. I don't expect you to ever understand any of this, but thats okay. No god is ever going to jump on your ass over what you believe or don't believe, and each of us is doing our part regardless of what we think we're doing. The whole process is naturally developed to proceed in spite of us.

I love how humanity already knows the answers to everything, but only the specific unit of humanity that is speaking at the moment. Nothing changes. Everyone's a genius.

Originally posted by NorEaster
Everyone's a genius.

So, does that mean we dont even have to try to be intelligible?

reply to post by NorEaster

I only know that I don't know.....

If you want to carry on thinking that you do know ......by all means go ahead.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I only know that I don't know.....

If you want to carry on thinking that you do know ......by all means go ahead.

edit on 20-1-2011 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

Ah, but you of course know that Confucius said

"He who thinks he knows, knows not, but he who knows that he knows not, knows."

and so by CLAIMING that you know that you don't know, you are pretending to know!

And furthermore, by claiming not to know, while saying that your debating opponent thinks he knows, and therefore must not know, you are using your own ignorance to prove you are right relative to his wrong.

- caught you!

P.S. I know by far infinitely less than ANY of you!

Originally posted by sinohptik

Originally posted by NorEaster
Everyone's a genius.

So, does that mean we dont even have to try to be intelligible?

This is a good thing is it not?. We wouldn't want anyone to have an unfair egoistic advantage.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

P.S. I know by far infinitely less than ANY of you!

Lol ...... that's some surgically sharp discernment ...

Interestingly ...not knowing is another way to get to the main point, and direct experience of, what I was trying to communicate to Noreaster .......

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

[...] Please don't compare faith to science, suggesting that it is a valid tool for discovering the "truth".

There is an interesting theory which suggest that FAITH could, potentially, be the greatest problem solving tool known to man, indirectly that is? It is based on the idea that thought or the phenomena of consciousness modifies our genetic code or DNA. I'm no expert in this particular field but the idea is that the deliberate act of faith allows the genes associated with intelligence to increase in capacity; capability.

It can reasoned that a beings capacity for intelligence is analogous to infinite potential energy. However, how does one unlock this hidden, intelligence, potential? If thought; consciousness, hypothetically, is the active principle in DNA modification, then FAITH which is belief in something which can't be tangibly manipulated or scientifically proven could act as a catalyst for the expansion of an individuals capacity for intelligence since the 'object' of faith represents an unknown, undefinable, idea. The intelligence of a person must expand in an effort to solve or define; delineate this unknown?

This is the theory anyhow. Of course, the mechanism whereby this 'growth in capacity' occurs is much more complex, this is the simple idea behind it.


Regards

Originally posted by Abovo

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

[...] Please don't compare faith to science, suggesting that it is a valid tool for discovering the "truth".

There is an interesting theory which suggest that FAITH could, potentially, be the greatest problem solving tool known to man, indirectly that is? It is based on the idea that thought or the phenomena of consciousness modifies our genetic code or DNA. I'm no expert in this particular field but the idea is that the deliberate act of faith allows the genes associated with intelligence to increase in capacity; capability.

It can reasoned that a beings capacity for intelligence is analogous to infinite potential energy. However, how does one unlock this hidden, intelligence, potential? If thought; consciousness, hypothetically, is the active principle in DNA modification, then FAITH which is belief in something which can't be tangibly manipulated or scientifically proven could act as a catalyst for the expansion of an individuals capacity for intelligence since the 'object' of faith represents an unknown, undefinable, idea. The intelligence of a person must expand in an effort to solve or define; delineate this unknown?

This is the theory anyhow. Of course, the mechanism whereby this 'growth in capacity' occurs is much more complex, this is the simple idea behind it.


Regards

This idea is of such great potential import, and interest to me, that I'm going to include your post here in my Alchemy Thread in Health and Wellness.

I also think that the "key" to unlocking that potential resides in an Alchemical perspective towards the human being, but framed within the context of a "monistic idealism" (consciousness, not matter is primary) such that the free self, the liberated, creative self, the happy person, resides precisely prior to any distinction or impression and then via a sharp and instantaneous quantum leap (recognition), not of faith, but of gnosis (knowing) born of the capacity to allow one's conception of self and everything else, to dissolve in the "crucible of the Absolute" (to use an alchemical metaphor) - poof, we've been re-cognized by the consciousness of consciousness, the point of leverage or the "towrope" to a higher order of being and awareness, what might be called a trans or supra-rationalism, which is not divorced from either reason, or logic, and this then is what migth be called the "logos" or the spirit of truth ie: infinite intelligence, and in theory anyway - infinite bliss!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Glad to be of service.

Sat-cit-ānanda

Originally posted by Abovo
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Glad to be of service.

Sat-cit-ānanda

Seen that, but had to go look it up on Wikipedia

truth, consciousness, and bliss

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Abovo

It can reasoned that a beings capacity for intelligence is analogous to infinite potential energy. However, how does one unlock this hidden, intelligence, potential? If thought; consciousness, hypothetically, is the active principle in DNA modification, then FAITH which is belief in something which can't be tangibly manipulated or scientifically proven could act as a catalyst for the expansion of an individuals capacity for intelligence since the 'object' of faith represents an unknown, undefinable, idea. The

Freakin AWESOME theory ...the theoretical science of Faith and its effects on the molecular, psychological, and consciousness level.

I most definitely think you are on to something and this something is nothing that I have ever really come across ...book wise.

Please do expand ...another thread perhaps ..I will do some research also and will hope to help expand this topic.