Militant Agnostic

When it comes to topics that are full of dogma, whether it be religious, academic, historic, or whatever, then let's agree there are going to be plenty of differing opinions. Fine, we all have opinions and are entitled to them. That doesn't mean, however, there is not good reason to discuss these matters. I am sure we can all benefit from various points of view.

There just are matters that the academics and religionists have been wrong about. New data comes in all the time but certain disciplines are slow to accept them. You may have a PhD in a particular discipline and your opinion counts too, it's just that those disciplines that have hot topic issues have a very ingrained academia so although I respect you and your opinion I still don't consider you an all-knowing expert that has a monopoly on all the truths to the matter, I have to put you in the category of a well-scholared Priest or Reverend. It still doesn't mean you have the one and only "true" answer.

In the event we are tossing around an issue I will be open-minded even though I may have a strong opinion to the contrary and we may have to agree to disagree. But if you insist that you are the ony one that can be correct in the matter because you have personally spoken to God and She agrees with you, that's fine but I may still not be convinced. If you further persist in stating you have the truth, the only position that could be considered valid, and that I absolutely must agree with you then I have to revert to my stance as a militant agnostic and tell you quite honestly, I don't know, AND NEITHER DO YOU!!! But I'll do it with a smile.

I used to refer to myself as an agnostic, until I realized that was only a descriptive stance without suggesting a theistic belief. It requires a second part...atheist or theist.

Agnostic-athiest = I do not know of any evidence, therefore until such evidence appears, I am inclined not to believe in deities

Gnostic atheist=I know for a fact there is no deities, therefore I do not believe in Deities..because there are none.

Agnostic-theist= I do not know the truth of the matter, but I am inclined to believe in deities because it feels right

Gnostic-theist= Jesus is God, accept it or die. (or the like)

Those are the 4 boxes you can choose from that basically encompasses all areas. agnostic is your concept on proof or not, theist or atheist is your view on deities. So, which are you?

incidently, I have only met a few gnostic atheists...I consider them religious and nonsense morons.

Agnostic-atheist here: I don't know..I see no evidence to date, and so will not believe in some biblical deity until such a time as some actual vetted evidence is produced.

Those four seem to cover the bases. I would be agnostic atheist. I didn't go that far in the rant because I really wasn't thinking in terms of theism at the time. Actually I don't normally get all that militant either. This all came to mind as I was reading old posts and seeing people play the education card which struck me as being just another dogmatic stance.

I haven't had my feathers ruffled in a long time but as a worst-case scenario I was thinking there is that possibility. I can accept defeat and surely know how to change my mind when I see good evidence to suggest I do so. There are just those moments when face-to-face with a stubborn jerk and I know there is some answer beyond my ability to reason or prove it but know the standard notion is dead wrong as well. So at a time when I'm not at the point of tearing my hair out this rant was an attempt to be amusing as well as to express my limit in those more critical times..

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Agnostic-athiest = I do not know of any evidence, therefore until such evidence appears, I am inclined not to believe in deities

Gnostic atheist=I know for a fact there is no deities, therefore I do not believe in Deities..because there are none.

Agnostic-theist= I do not know the truth of the matter, but I am inclined to believe in deities because it feels right

Gnostic-theist= Jesus is God, accept it or die. (or the like)

Those are the 4 boxes you can choose from that basically encompasses all areas. agnostic is your concept on proof or not, theist or atheist is your view on deities. So, which are you?

incidently, I have only met a few gnostic atheists...I consider them religious and nonsense morons.

Agnostic-atheist here: I don't know..I see no evidence to date, and so will not believe in some biblical deity until

such a time as some actual vetted evidence is produced.

I'm a little bit of an agnostic theist, because there could be something out there, and I've had some very weird unexplainable events in my life.

I might be a little bit of an agnostic atheist also, because even though I've had weird events happen, they probably didn't have anything to do with a deity, and there's no evidence, and if there's a deity, where is he/she?
Have they left us completely on our own?

I could even be a bit of an agnostic pantheist, because if there is a deity, she/he is supposed to be omni-everything, so that could be the unified field theory of everything? The great universal soul.

I don't know. I'm not very good with labels.
Plus, I've done the online sanity tests, and came up as quite fractured
I'm sure this reflects my thinking somehow....

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Agnostic-atheist here: I don't know..I see no evidence to date, and so will not believe in some biblical deity until such a time as some actual vetted evidence is produced.

I think that's where I fit too. It makes the most sense to me - now that its been described to me.

I do have beliefs - - - but not of a deity.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Agnostic-atheist here: I don't know..I see no evidence to date, and so will not believe in some biblical deity until such a time as some actual vetted evidence is produced.

I think that's where I fit too. It makes the most sense to me - now that its been described to me.

I do have beliefs - - - but not of a deity.

Same. I have all sorts of really interesting "ghost stories", I do try and be reasonable about them when discussing. That fits into the agnostic part of being open.
Atheism to me is simply rejecting all mythos, be it Thor, or Yehweh until such a time as some actual evidence comes forth...and not just with some witness testimony a couple thousand years ago (if thats all that is needed to prove something, then extraterrestrials in todays society would be a simple hard fact accepted by everyone with ET centers everywhere...untaxed.)

I "believe" in lots of paranormal concepts, ET concepts, etc...but my belief has little to do with facts or proof..I actively seek it, and if evidence comes up against, I will gladly accept it and change my views...also when I speak of my views on such subjects, I say often its simply my belief and interpretation...and may not be the case overall in regards to truth.

But ya, Atheism is just a view on deities...and its not a to not believe is to say there is no such thing..its just waiting for evidence

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Same. I have all sorts of really interesting "ghost stories", I do try and be reasonable about them when discussing. That fits into the agnostic part of being open.

Oh yeah - - have all kinds of experiences. Had OBE's all the time as a kid. Premonitions - ghosts - channeling - etc.

Doesn't mean there is a Deity.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Same. I have all sorts of really interesting "ghost stories", I do try and be reasonable about them when discussing. That fits into the agnostic part of being open.

Oh yeah - - have all kinds of experiences. Had OBE's all the time as a kid. Premonitions - ghosts - channeling - etc.

Doesn't mean there is a Deity.

Well, a skeptical mind is needed in those things also...the brain can make you imagine all sorts of things...especially if you happen to be near EM fields, allergic to certain foods, etc...

There are odd things in the universe..things we currently do not understand. Its healthy to investigate and want to know..its unhealthy to start labelling things based on just some ideas.
What is a ghost? What is a OBE, what is a sudden vision of some event that comes to pass, etc...is there science behind it, if so, what..what general field would it fall under to try and start investigating? Do we even have a proper technique or tool yet to even start, etc.

And more importantly...how does it effect your life...does it make you generally happier, does it make you want to contribute more...

Religion for some is good. They almost require a invisible boogieman to fear in order to do the right thing. Its one reason why religion itself shouldn't disappear..we aren't there yet. But what should be worked for is a removal of any religious ideals or influence from governmental establishment so that it doesn't hinder progress of the civilization.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Same. I have all sorts of really interesting "ghost stories", I do try and be reasonable about them when discussing. That fits into the agnostic part of being open.

Oh yeah - - have all kinds of experiences. Had OBE's all the time as a kid. Premonitions - ghosts - channeling - etc.

Doesn't mean there is a Deity.

Well, a skeptical mind is needed in those things also...the brain can make you imagine all sorts of things...especially if you happen to be near EM fields, allergic to certain foods, etc...

Oh absolutely! I know what I personally believe - - but I am not stating it as fact.

And YES! The mind and chemicals in the body can cause all kinds of stuff. I experienced that too when I had a massive infection from a blocked Fallopian tube.

But - - when I picked up the helicopter training crash of a neighbor's brother-in-law I had never met. That I can't explain.

Still doesn't mean there is a Deity.

I recognize there have been a good number of gods at one time or another. I go so far as to acknowledge some of them have been the "boss god" for his clan but I have to think I am agnostic atheist as I do not recognize any of them as being in my chain of command. If one of them shows up and can convince me otherwise then, yes, I can modify my stance somewhat.

Just because one of them promises me Eternal Salvation if I jump through a bunch of hoops that never seem to satisfy anyone that my efforts are good enough, that doesn't grab me any. The Church of the Sub-Genius offers Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE my money back. That sounds like a better deal but I still haven't bought into the plan yet. So I am content with agnostic atheist.

Saturn, I gave you a star for making the list of four choices easy. Thanks.