Freemasonry Q & A by John Salza, former Freemason

Well, I have an interesting link that some of you might want to check out.

Freemasonry Q & A

The information in this link contains various documents pertaining to Freemasonry.

John Salza was a 32nd degree Freemason, and has written a couple of books on the subject of Freemasonry (as well as several other Catholic apologetics and such). One for the general public called "Masonry Unmasked" and one geared toward Catholics called "Why Catholics Can Not Become Masons".

There are some good dialogues between John Salza and a couple Masonic Apologists as well. So you can see the debate from both sides.

Enjoy,

CC

mehhhhhh.... ill have to let you try to get this propaganda out unchallenged. im tired of geting gang insulted, be it u2u's or pissed off mason posts, so enjoy whatever good pr you can get. my grandpa came to the masons seeking god, and came out of it with money, and power, and new satanic rituals, but hey ill believe the same crap all the peons and lesser masons get to hear and spread around. i think the problem is that the secret society started becoming more secret as the masons influence grew. i feel sorry for you mostly bacause you are not a free mason, you are a free mason pledge, and know nothing of the secret society you may be let into.

the problem is that the path of satan (darkness/temptation-lucifer is personification, not real..k, maybe, idk) is the path that grants power, wealth, women, general fame
while the path of god (of light/understanding) is the path that will inevitably take everything from you, forcing you to see that all of the fame, and money, the sex is just a distraction keeping you from growing spiritually. this is the way of jesus, of bhuddha, and of myself

now i wonder witch path the masons with any say seem to follow. wait a second, freemasons have had the most powerful people on the planet within their ranks? some of the richest and most influential of people are honored by their fellow masons, but i wonder... did they actually have to experience hardship to get their prize, or did they just sell their soul? dont expect me back, i have better things to do than reply to your kneejerk posts

ive seen what it does first-hand. ive seen the way his charisma is completely changed. he is no longer the wrinkled little craftsman but the cold, savvy businessman. if you dont know this already, the higher-ups are lying,and anything they can give you can be achieved by yourself in a way that is not given. it is earned. you dont feel the same pride when something is just handed to you that you feel having faced years of hardship that show you what that precious prize is truly worth

you are all cheating yourselves, but dont listen to me, its something you will experience one day should you surround yourself with those deceitful higherups

reply to post by chief_counsellor


I must admit, my first impression of Mr. Salza is that he seems to be preaching from just as much blind, religious, dogmatic fervor as he accuses the various freemasons who try to take him to task over it do. Strikes me as a bit of a case of zealot on zealot combat. *pauses for thought* actually that sounds pretty grand. I could tape that and make millions...

reply to post by chief_counsellor


Read about these guys for years and the best author for research on this secret society who live in a pyramid type structure and ruled by the most evil soul less beings is David Icke who was ridiculed for years and called a nutter long before the general public found their way into this society and started expressing an interest. ALL of his words have been confirmed over the years he has been carrying out deep research at risk of his own life. He travels the world in the hope of enlightening people and was often barred from many countries.
The Free Masons are the modern day Knights Templers and practise the Occult (Hidden) with world wide power they are behind all the financial institutions, and much much more. Don't even think that when you vote in what we believe are free elections in a democratic society that the decision is with the people - your Presidents are chosen long before you do.
Topic goes so deep I wouldn't know where to start - so astounding and unbelievable. This world we live in is NOTHING like we imagine it to be and has been this way for hundreds of years. When we are all micro chipped (as many are already without even knowing it) we will be their robots to be turned on or off at their will. Check out who is really in control of this planet of ours - search, search and search until you find the truth. The truth will set you free and like David Icke proves "The Robots will Rebel".

Originally posted by GenerationXisMarching

the problem is that the path of satan (darkness/temptation-lucifer is personification, not real..k, maybe, idk) is the path that grants power, wealth, women, general fame
while the path of god (of light/understanding) is the path that will inevitably take everything from you, forcing you to see that all of the fame, and money, the sex is just a distraction keeping you from growing spiritually. this is the way of jesus, of bhuddha, and of myself

Lucifer is the "light bearer"

Edit for: realizing you mentioned lucifer not being real, but you don't know.

Sorry got ahead of myself, eager to challenge you. I've had a couple drinks, my apologies.

reply to post by GenerationXisMarching


since you won't be back, I am sure this will fall on deaf ears. I don't think you understood your grandfather too well. It seems that since he was a good business man, you assume he cheated, lied, and sold his soul to the devil to do it. I have known people who worked hard and earned what they got. Isn't it possible that he was one of those men? Naw, it make much more sense that he used satanic blood sacrifices to grow his business. After all, that's how all the up and comers are doing it these days. Maybe if you put a little effort into your life you could be as respected as he was.

reply to post by Wiseupall


David Icke, the same guy who thinks that Reptilians from center earth rule everything?

Just checking.

Another anti-Mason thread with counter argument thrown into the Q&A link to make it appear balanced. However, it really is not.

GenerationXisMarching in his post tells of his grandfather's experience with the Masons and sppears to be yet another satisfied customer. It doesn't appear to be his intention but he makes a good case for considering membership.

A person joining the Masons might find himself becoming a better person, standing more erect and becoming a pillar in his community. To learn to be a better person would be a good reason to want to join. To tell the membership committee that your interest for joining is primarily to establish business contacts would be reason to reject you.

Originally posted by GenerationXisMarching
mehhhhhh.... ill have to let you try to get this propaganda out unchallenged. im tired of geting gang insulted, be it u2u's or pissed off mason posts,
...
dont expect me back, i have better things to do than reply to your kneejerk posts

Awfully self-important sounding for an account that's been active less than 3 weeks, and considering this is your first post in the Secret Societies forum.

We won't miss you.

Well, some do not agree with what Mr. Salza is saying about Freemasonry. I expected that, however, it does offer another point of view from someone that was previously involved in Freemasonry and an explanation derived from his experience.

reply to post by chief_counsellor


him looking for a reason in scripture to have it be against masonry is a bit disingenuous. I am sure with the right combination of points, you could make an interpretation of just about anything out of Bible scriptures. Most people have enough sense to let the Bible teach them and let their heart guide them. When you take your own will out of the equation, the soul has no purpose. If he feels that masonry is incompatible with his beliefs, then he should leave. He sounds like an insecure person seeking desperately for reassurance. People who confuse masonry for a religion all it's own have lost something in the teachings along the way. Much like the KOC is not a religion, it's a fraternal organization that happens to be based in part on religious beliefs. Masonry is the same. I hate to downplay it to the point of saying it's just a fraternity, but in the end, that's what it is. We speak of hope for an afterlife, but we offer no salvation. People just try to look too far into the hidden meanings only to forget the core lessons. (IMHO)

reply to post by network dude


I wouldn't call John Salza an insecure person, he has written a dozen or so books, and is an established Catholic apologist. He also appeared on EWTN discussing his books, not sure if he has been on any other television networks. I can't find my Masonry Unmasked book, however I might order "Why Catholics Can't Be Masons" for my own information.

The Catholic church is not the only church that forbids it's members from joining Freemasonry. There are dozens or more other denominations of Christianity that also do the same.

I don't know if you know, but I joined the Freemasons for a very short period of time. Just a few months, got my EA degree and that was it. However clergy and family members were upset with me for joining and caused me a lot of trouble, so I left the order. I personally don't harbour ill toward Freemasonry. However, I am a Catholic, and since my church forbids it, I can not condone a Catholic becoming a Freemason. My personal religious convictions had to come before my membership in the Freemasons.

I am glad to have discovered a fraternal home in the Knights of Columbus. It has similar benefits to membership in the Freemasons, but my church does not forbid me membership, but rather encourages membership in what Pope John Paul II described as "The strong right arm of the church".

The present pope, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger wrote of the church's stance on Freemasonry.

I know that there are Catholics that are Freemasons, and apparently there are even clergy members in some parts of the world that are members too. I don't know the truth of this matter, because I don't know the name of any clergy member in the Catholic church that is a member of the Freemasons.

CC

The following is John Salza speaking about Freemasonry at a Conference

Freemasonry Unmasked, Speaker John Salza

It's a lengthy one, about half an hour. Don't know if any of you care to watch some of it.

I actually have spent quite some time trying to understand the position of the Roman Catholic Church (hereinafter RCC) in reference to Freemasonry. I have a few thoughts on the topic I'd like to share.

1) First and foremost, the RCC recommends (a weak word for it, perhaps, but it will suffice in context) that faithful Catholics not become Masons. The magistrum (teaching authority) of the Church, however, must always bend to the judgment of the informed, individual Catholic. I know a number of church-going, communion-talking, donation-giving, RCC members who are Masons because their knowledge of the Fraternity and understanding of it allow them to be such. They believe that the Church simply has its facts wrong.

2) The RCC typically makes the accusation that Freemasons are guilty of indifferentism (theological term of art) towards the revealed word of Christ because the Fraternity does not require men to be Christians or Roman Catholics. True, in so far as it is also true of Boy Scout Troops (which many RCC parishes sponsor), the PTA, or numerous other contexts in our pluralistic society. And before you say that the difference is that Freemasonry claims to teach morality, consider the core, moral lessons of the Boy Scouts.

3) The RCC also makes the claim that Freemasonry is guilty of syncrenism, that is the belief that all religions lead to the same God. I have to say that I could go either way on this one. Certainly, nothing in the Craft Freemasonry (the first 3 degrees that are the basis of the Fraternity) would suggest this. However, the Scottish Rite degrees have a clear syncrenist bias that, on at least one occasion, is quite explicit. However, I suspect that if you ask a number of Roman Catholics if they really believe that "there is no salvation outside the (Roman Catholic) Church", you would give the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith fits for months with the poll results. Syncrenism is a natural out growth of a religiously pluralistic, tolerant society. None the less, I have to say, again, that there is nothing of the kind in Blue Lodge Freemasonry.

4) Occasionally, objection is made on the grounds that by requiring a man to maintain secrecy, the Fraternity interferes with the Rite of Reconciliation (confession). Stuff and nonsense. One need not confess to any of the modes of recognition in Freemasonry because they are not sins.

5) The RCC prohibits membership. The Pope, when he was a Cardinal, reaffirmed it and the Pope, when he became a Pope, confirmed his reaffirmation and, it is sometimes argued, the matter is closed. If this is your view, then I fully support your choice not to be a Freemason. Indeed, were you to seek admission and I were to discover this was your view, I would urge you not to become a member. The Fraternity does not want anyone to join against their will. So... um, if you don't want to become a Mason, fear not! You will not be made a Mason by accident.

6) Technically, my understanding from a Canon Lawyer (Canon Law = the particular legal system of the Church, in this case the RCC) is that being a Mason does not subject you to the penalty of excommunication in and of itself. However, it does mean that, from the Church's point of view, you are in a state of perpetual sin and should not receive the Sacrament until you have repented of your sin (and presumably obtained a demit from your lodge). That said, see #1 above. So, it is a kind of excommunication (no communion, literally) but one from which you may recover without additional legal steps by the Church.

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
I don't know if you know, but I joined the Freemasons for a very short period of time. Just a few months, got my EA degree and that was it. However clergy and family members were upset with me for joining and caused me a lot of trouble, so I left the order.

That's a shame. Sadly, the ones who gave you a hard time about it had no idea why they didn't like it. They were just parroting an age old dispute. That's one of the big problems I have with the church. I don't know if you know, but I am a confirmed Catholic. Probably not anymore, but I have not gone to ask. I'll just assume that's the case.

I personally don't harbour ill toward Freemasonry. However, I am a Catholic, and since my church forbids it, I can not condone a Catholic becoming a Freemason. My personal religious convictions had to come before my membership in the Freemasons.

I would have hoped for a stronger response from you than caving in to the churches stance, knowing at least in part what masonry is. I would have though praying about it to God would give you an answer.

I am glad to have discovered a fraternal home in the Knights of Columbus. It has similar benefits to membership in the Freemasons, but my church does not forbid me membership, but rather encourages membership in what Pope John Paul II described as "The strong right arm of the church".

The present pope, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger wrote of the church's stance on Freemasonry.

I know that there are Catholics that are Freemasons, and apparently there are even clergy members in some parts of the world that are members too. I don't know the truth of this matter, because I don't know the name of any clergy member in the Catholic church that is a member of the Freemasons.

CC

My attitude toward that article is based on my belief that the Bible is a guide to how to live life, not a script. When people try to win arguments by taking a small part of it literally, they they open up their entire lives to the scrutiny of not fulfilling all the charges in the Bible.

And the church will do what's best for the church, not necessarily God's will, or what's best for the parishioner.

Originally posted by TheGiantPeach

Originally posted by GenerationXisMarching

the problem is that the path of satan (darkness/temptation-lucifer is personification, not real..k, maybe, idk) is the path that grants power, wealth, women, general fame
while the path of god (of light/understanding) is the path that will inevitably take everything from you, forcing you to see that all of the fame, and money, the sex is just a distraction keeping you from growing spiritually. this is the way of jesus, of bhuddha, and of myself

Lucifer is the "light bearer"

Edit for: realizing you mentioned lucifer not being real, but you don't know.

Sorry got ahead of myself, eager to challenge you. I've had a couple drinks, my apologies.

edit on 5-1-2011 by TheGiantPeach because: (no reason given)

Lucifer was infact very real, but he is not the Devil

The name Lucifer ended up getting used by some as a reference to the Devil due to a similarity in two stories -

"When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has ceased! How his insolence has ceased! … How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of congregation on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: "Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who would not let his prisoners go home?", Isaiah 14:12

This refers to the King of Babylon, a very powerful man, but not the Devil, his fate was compared to that of the Morning Star (Venus), and its from Venus that you get the term "Light Bearer", rising at dawn, the brightest of stars, but only until the sun pokes his cheeky head out from behind the clouds

This very same principle was then used to describe Satans fall from grace after he got a little bit to big for his boots, so to speak, cast out as a "fallen angel" into the abyss, or just above it, sort of like a biblical security guard

On the subject of Freemasons, well, they are Criminals, plain and simple, they like to dress themselves up as the world elite, but dont let that distract you, they are criminals.

From what I have read on the subject you can trace the Freemasons descent into criminality right back to about 1770 when one of the Rothschilds has the bright idea to create the Illuminati (keepers of the light), and then decides to infiltrate the Freemasons.

And the purpose of the illuminati ?, Division, Divide and Conquer, take a solid body, cut it in half, make the two halfs hate each other, then lend the two sides money, at interest, secured by the taxpayer, and send them of to war, that ring any bells, it should do, there is a very good chance every single war since then has been created for the purpose of pure profit.
Some bright spark worked out that war was a very good cash generator, so, they might dress themselves in fancy expensive suits, and live in great big mansions, and walk the earth with all the hairs and graces of kings, but they are still Criminals, dont ever forget that.

Regards,

Originally posted by Dajjal
From what I have read on the subject you can trace the Freemasons descent into criminality right back to about 1770 when one of the Rothschilds has the bright idea to create the Illuminati (keepers of the light), and then decides to infiltrate the Freemasons.

Adam Weishaupt was a Rothschild? I was not aware of that. Where did you read this? And where did you read the completely incorrect information about the Illuminati? I won't even bother with asking you to explain how Freemasons are criminals.

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Dajjal
From what I have read on the subject you can trace the Freemasons descent into criminality right back to about 1770 when one of the Rothschilds has the bright idea to create the Illuminati (keepers of the light), and then decides to infiltrate the Freemasons.

Adam Weishaupt was a Rothschild? I was not aware of that. Where did you read this? And where did you read the completely incorrect information about the Illuminati? I won't even bother with asking you to explain how Freemasons are criminals.

"And where did you read the completely incorrect information about the Illuminati?"

And I wont even bother asking you, if you are the founding father of the illuminati, which your obviously not, therefore I shall stick to what I have read, and you can stick to what you have read.

reply to post by Dajjal


great. super job on the denying ignorance thing. Instead of learning about things, it's much better to spread lies and incorrect information as long as it sound good.

So, I guess you don't have any proof that the Illuminati was founded by a Rothschild. Didn't think so. In case you ever do want to learn factual information, there are several good books dedicated to the study of this group. Some even have pictures. If I find one in pop up form, I will forward that link on to you.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Dajjal

 

great. super job on the denying ignorance thing. Instead of learning about things, it's much better to spread lies and incorrect information as long as it sound good.

So, I guess you don't have any proof that the Illuminati was founded by a Rothschild. Didn't think so. In case you ever do want to learn factual information, there are several good books dedicated to the study of this group. Some even have pictures. If I find one in pop up form, I will forward that link on to you.

you set the tone of ignorance with your reply, and provided no proof that what I said was wrong, and yes there are many good books written on this subject, and furthermore, your not the only one in this world who can read, your entitled to your view, I am entitled to mine, so get down of your high horse.

Regards,