If this isn't damning evidence of Pharmaceutical corruption, I don't know what is

reply to post by CUJOCREEP


You know one of the crazier things that we kind of forget? What happens when we go to the bathroom to relieve ourselves? Those drugs end up in our water supply, especially if you are using the recycled city water. We're getting drugs in some way or another whether we want it or not. We're swimming in toxins. Our earth is polluted as well as our bodies. We've got to take back sane health practices. If someone needs a drug to save their lives, then they should get it. But, there is a line that we should not cross. It is the line that puts people on a lifetime of unnecessary medications. And that is what is happening in our world today. So much medication that was never needed to correct the problem.

I don't experience the same issues with supplements. I've never gotten dizzy or short of breath from Vitamin c. Colostrum has never cause gastrointestinal damage. Of course there are some supplements that you don't want excess amounts of, like iron, but overall, you still don't have the same issues, like with medications.

Troy

corruption exists in everywhere.it come from the selfishness of human.

Yup, corruption has made it's way into many areas of our lives. But, we're going to stand up to it.

We are going to look at Strattera this time.

www.askapatient.com...

More material, the top 10 violence inducing drugs.

www.naturalnews.com...

Troy

We're going to go with a cardiovascular drug, called Vytorin. Cutesy little commercials, loads of side effects.

www.askapatient.com...

Read the latter pages of their own PDF. Lots of big words to look up. You will read some stuff on a disorder of the muscles. What happens if this affects your heart? Isn't the heart a muscle? Isn't the cardiovascular system what Vytorin is supposed to protect?

www.msppharma.com...

Troy

Let's visit the anti-depressant, Cymbalta. The side effects can be disturbing. This at least was, or maybe still is, a highly advertised drug.

Someone said, "I feel like I do not really experience emotions" That's a scary statement.

www.askapatient.com...

I just can't trust my health to our health care system, because of stuff like this.

I'm going to go ahead and add Flonase, because I'm a bit shocked at what I am reading about it. Honestly, I never expected this stuff from a nasal medication.

www.askapatient.com...

Troy

Well, to keep this thread alive and full of information, I've found another disturbing drug, in the form of a calcium channel blocker. Very disturbing. Folks I know there are probably some safer ways around these problems. Things that are helping you should not hurt you like this. If a person was helping me across the street, helped me part way, and ended up throwing me in front of a car, am I supposed to run back and trust the guy to help me again, even despite the fact he threw other people in front of traffic as well? These drugs don't make any sense.

Norvasc

www.askapatient.com...

I know my father is on different heart medications, and it frustrates me. I've been round and round with him on the issue, but if he won't listen, I will find people that will.

We've got Magnesium, Arginine, Vitamin C, Niacin, all these things can improve cardiovascular problems, but a drug like Norvasc gets pushed? Where is the logic to long term use of this drug? It's not logic, it's $$.

Troy

Originally posted by cybertroy
Something tells me, someone is trying to make us ill.

They're not shy about it, either. They rub it right in everyone's faces.

I heard the meaning of this logo is "combatting one toxin with another". I call it "making sure your customers keep coming back".

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0a83e7d37e1f.jpg[/atsimg]

Yeah my friend, that sounds about like it.

The more I read about side effects, and people's experiences, the more it makes you question the motive behind the drugs. I know I am staring into an insane industry. Because it doesn't make any sense from the standpoint of wanting to heal people.

I heard the strangest thing today from an actual friend, but I've heard the idea from other places.

And, it's an idea relating to the Flu Vaccines. My friend's mom had gotten vaccinated, and ended up with the flu. So, you know what the response to that, stated by my friend? Something like, "It would have been a lot worse had she not been vaccinated." There are some really weird ideas floating around out there. I thought vaccines were supposed to be for immunity, yet I've seen multiple cases of people getting the flu, even though they were vaccinated. Or, the notion, "the vaccine protected them from a nastier flu." Crap, wouldn't it be a better idea to avoid the vaccine altogether, if it's not going to stop the flu? You're body knows how to handle this stuff on it's own, just give it a nutritional boost, and even if you get it, it will be a lot milder. I'm not really affected much by the flu anymore, and I can tell you, it's not because of vaccines. I haven't been vaccinated in a long time for anything. Vaccines are from drug companies, I already don't trust these guys, why would I trust them to provide me with immunity?

I'm just so happy that people are waking up. But, much work is still yet to be done.

Peace my ATS peeps!

Troy

reply to post by cybertroy


There are dozens of flu strains. It is (currently) impossible to vaccinate for all of them in one shot due to the nature of the human immune system and its antigen-processing cells. The seasonal flu shot only targets the strains most common in other parts of the world at the moment, as those are the strains you're more likely to come in contact with. There are still other strains out there, they're just less common.

Just because you don't understand how vaccines work, doesn't mean you get to make up information and pass it off as fact. Sorry, that's not how truth works.

Where did I make anything up? I stated my observations. I could go over a treasure chest of information that is freely available if you like.

What I understand, is the fact that flu vaccines don't seem to work very well. What I understand is that this big flu pandemic, that never happened, was supposed to make everyone rush out and get their vaccine. What I understand is that this was one of my best flu seasons, and I didn't have a single vaccine. I understand what I can see with my own two eyes. Today's science, especially in the Pharmaceutical field, seems to be nothing more than "checkbook science." The sound of ripping checks, and bullying techniques, fixes any adverse reactions in drugs it seems. And, their "science," just doesn't add up. Want to see "miracle" drugs in action? Go find a person who is on multiple drugs, and see how healthy they are. I can, with certainty, tell you, they are likely not healthy.

Anyway, why would you even go to get a vaccine if you can still get the flu? It's not worth all the extra vaccine ingredients. When these things are proven safe and effective, I might just give it a nod of approval, but not until then. Besides that, people who will boost their immune systems, are much less likely to have problems with anything like a flu. I think it's better protection than any flu vaccine. That's assuming the flu vaccine even protects you from anything. There is no proof that they work. People are still getting sick. How is that protection? I can do better with my vitamins and minerals, honestly.

I think you may be out of the loop as far as vaccine side effects, or you're just clinging onto the idea that Big Pharma actually cares about people. Either that, or you have some sort of vested interest in these things. There are enough deaths and damage from vaccines to warrant a WTF reaction. Do you want a shocker? Look up the problems with the Gardasil vaccine. And, this thing manages to stay on the market. Why? Young, healthy girls, having their health taken from them. That's science? That's protection?

I don't want today's pharmaceutical "science," because it is very far from actual science. Results speak louder than this supposed science. What I want are results. I have enough results of my own, and I've seen and heard enough results of others to know nutrition and supplementation are far superior to anything Big Pharma puts out. I've seen enough side effects with friends, with family, through video, through stories, to make me swear off any connection with pharmaceutical drugs, of course, bar a medical emergency, in which they would be needed.

You are very free to believe as you wish. I'm only conveying information. I don't force you to believe it.

Good day to you.

Troy

Originally posted by cybertroy
I could go over a treasure chest of information that is freely available if you like.

The phrase is "treasure trove", not "treasure chest".

What I understand, is the fact that flu vaccines don't seem to work very well.

Really?

Seasonal flu vaccines rated as effective

Pandemic flu vaccine rated as highly effective

Vero-cell and other egg-dervied flu vaccines deemed highly effective

Can you provide data that the vaccines aren't effective, or is your evidence just "well, I got a vaccine and then I caught an upper respiratory infection, which was never 'technically' diagnosed serologically as flu, but I feel like it was anyways"?

What I understand is that this big flu pandemic, that never happened, was supposed to make everyone rush out and get their vaccine.

You mean the "pandemic" that was played up by the media (and this website), but not by doctors? Oh, right, that one.

You know you can't blame doctors for things that they didn't do, right?

I didn't have a single vaccine. I understand what I can see with my own two eyes.

I'm very glad you didn't get the flu. However, lots of people do, for various reasons. You're likely not in the high-risk groups (infant, elderly, or immunocompromised), so it probably doesn't make much of a difference if you get the flu shot or not. But to use such poor evidence (anecdotes) to try to convince people who DO need the shot to not get it is incredibly unethical and just plain wrong.

Go find a person who is on multiple drugs, and see how healthy they are. I can, with certainty, tell you, they are likely not healthy.

Well, by definition, someone who is on "multiple drugs" likely has "multiple problems". Why would they be taking pills if they weren't healthy? We can't fix everything. Sometimes we can just attenuate it. Metformin will never get rid of diabetes, but some people just don't want to get off their butt and start eating healthier (the only known ways to reverse/eliminate type 2 diabetes).

It's not worth all the extra vaccine ingredients. When these things are proven safe and effective, I might just give it a nod of approval, but not until then.

Can you tell me which "extra ingredients" you feel haven't been proven safe?

There is no proof that they work. People are still getting sick. How is that protection?

You need to review basic microbiology. There is more than one "flu". There are dozens of strains. Just because you were vaccinated against H1N1 and H5N1, doesn't mean you are immune to H3N2. Every strain has antigenic variation, making the vaccine less effective against that strain.

We can't currently vaccinated against ALL strains in one shot. It's just not biologically possible (though there IS a universal vaccine in development, I believe). Until we can do this, we vaccinate for the MOST COMMON strains of that season as a means of giving the most adequate protection possible with the technology available.

I've explained this same concept to you TWICE now in the last two posts. Which part of it is confusing you?

I'm only conveying information. I don't force you to believe it.

No, you're conveying half-truths and blatant misinformation (though, to your credit, I don't think you're lying, you're just uneducated in the field, as shown by your 'why do we still get the flu' question).

Treasure chest is just fine. That's the way I typed it.

.gov web sites, of course they are going to be favorable to the vaccine. No surprise there.

I've been in circles with people here before, just like this. There is plenty of information out there that argues my case. I've been publishing plenty of information since I've started this thread. If that's not enough for you, then you're not willing to really look at what I have said. There is nothing I can show you, no link I can give you, that will satisfy you.

There is no need to argue with you any further on it. Nothing will be accomplished.

Have a nice day my friend.

Troy

Let's get to some of the nuts and bolts of vaccines. Ingredients.

www.informedchoice.info...

Confirmed here.

www.cdc.gov...

thimerosal is a mercury compound. I saw a medical show, just the other day, that had a child with mercury poisoning, and, that's not something I would wish on anyone. The docs finally figured it out before it was too late, chelated the toxic metal from the body. The disease eluded the docs, until some symptoms came to light that a doctor luckily recognized. Mercury is not something I want in my body. Formaldehyde, ok another thing, that, no thanks, I don't want it in my body. If you are getting yearly vaccinations, or maybe even multiple vaccinations, what toll, especially long term, will this have on your body?

Troy

Originally posted by cybertroy

.gov web sites, of course they are going to be favorable to the vaccine. No surprise there.

Dear god...how am I supposed to have a fair debate with someone who doesn't even look at the links?!

The .gov is just the address for the PubMed database. It's a catalog of ALL journals (which aren't owned by the government) as a means for the public and scientists to see what research is currently out there, or has already been published.

Are you suggesting the Journal of Epidemiology, British Medical Journal, the Lancet, Vanderbilt University, British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, and Austrian Global Research Center are all being paid by the American government or pharmaceutical companies?

Are you ****** serious? Do you have ANY evidence for these claims? At all? Are you just posting on here to mess with me? There's no way a rational person can honestly think that ALL international journals and ALL universities, research centers, and analysis centers, are being paid by the pharmaceutical companies. Do you know how many TRILLIONS of dollars that would cost, even if you just paid every single entity a pittance?

Jesus...DO SOME CRITICAL THINKING HERE.

There is nothing I can show you, no link I can give you, that will satisfy you.

You've yet to show me ANYTHING. How can you claim an argument is over and done with when all you've provided is anecdotes?

Originally posted by cybertroy
Let's get to some of the nuts and bolts of vaccines. Ingredients.

www.informedchoice.info...

Confirmed here.

www.cdc.gov...

thimerosal is a mercury compound. I saw a medical show, just the other day, that had a child with mercury poisoning, and, that's not something I would wish on anyone. The docs finally figured it out before it was too late, chelated the toxic metal from the body. The disease eluded the docs, until some symptoms came to light that a doctor luckily recognized. Mercury is not something I want in my body. Formaldehyde, ok another thing, that, no thanks, I don't want it in my body. If you are getting yearly vaccinations, or maybe even multiple vaccinations, what toll, especially long term, will this have on your body?

Troy

edit on 9-3-2011 by cybertroy because: Excessive Troys

Please, for the sake of my own sanity, READ YOUR SOURCES BEFORE YOU POST THEM.

Thimerosal in only used in MULTI-DOSE syringes. These are rarely used, as once you open them, they have to be used soon, and are economically wasteful. They have been being phased out for almost a decade at this point.

As for formaldehyde...can you show me a single study that shows the miniscule amount in vaccines has caused any adverse effects?

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by cybertroy
Let's get to some of the nuts and bolts of vaccines. Ingredients.

www.informedchoice.info...

Confirmed here.

www.cdc.gov...

thimerosal is a mercury compound. I saw a medical show, just the other day, that had a child with mercury poisoning, and, that's not something I would wish on anyone. The docs finally figured it out before it was too late, chelated the toxic metal from the body. The disease eluded the docs, until some symptoms came to light that a doctor luckily recognized. Mercury is not something I want in my body. Formaldehyde, ok another thing, that, no thanks, I don't want it in my body. If you are getting yearly vaccinations, or maybe even multiple vaccinations, what toll, especially long term, will this have on your body?

Troy

edit on 9-3-2011 by cybertroy because: Excessive Troys

Please, for the sake of my own sanity, READ YOUR SOURCES BEFORE YOU POST THEM.

Thimerosal in only used in MULTI-DOSE syringes. These are rarely used, as once you open them, they have to be used soon, and are economically wasteful. They have been being phased out for almost a decade at this point.

As for formaldehyde...can you show me a single study that shows the miniscule amount in vaccines has caused any adverse effects?

Using our common sense is enough, we don't need sources. It's important to understand business too when we talk about studies/sources VneZonyDostupa. I feel it would be useful for you to go on a business course or to try starting your own business to give you more of an understanding of the agenda behind the studies/sources that you use as your Bible; this will help you see the bigger picture instead of a one-dimensional perspective.

Try to imagine you work high up in McDonalds, are you going to fund studies to prove your food is unhealthy? Of course not, you'll lose your job. Instead you've got to find any way possible of proving the exact opposite, no matter how difficult it might be for the public to digest

Originally posted by jameshawkings

Using our common sense is enough, we don't need sources.

THIS is the reason the anti-vaccine, anti-pharm, anti-whatever groups are NEVER taken seriously. You have effectively said, "I don't need science to make a scientific point."

If you're so certain something is true...RESEARCH IT. Raise funds, get a private lab to research it. Get the training yourself and research it. LEARN THE SCIENCE AND THEN PROVE YOUR POINT.

Making baseless, non-scientific claims WILL NEVER CHANGE A DAMN THING.

If you can't speak the language of the scientific community, you will never, never, never, never, never be taken seriously.

If you think vaccines are all safe and great, then you should at the very least research Gardasil. Plenty of stories out there. I doubt that many people are lying. Too many reports of adverse reactions, and deaths to throw into the mix. Besides that, I have eyes of my own, I can make an honest observation with people on medications. I can tell you flat out that drugs largely aren't helping people. Many times, creating more problems. People's ability to get well, forgotten and replaced with pain and suffering. Lives stripped away. Old people rotting away for years, instead of enjoying their golden years. I have a friend, regular Psychiatric patient, medicated, yet never seems to get well. Where is this so called help she is getting? My cousin, beat himself with a belt because of Psychiatric medications. My sister in-laws aunt took her life on Psychiatric medications, that same sister in law tried to take her life on Psychiatric medication. I have eyes, and others do as well. And, I can see the flu vaccine doesn't seem to work. My dad gets the dang vaccine every year. Yet, he ended up in bed with the flu, year after year, followed by pneumonia. What science would I use in my dad's case to prove that the flu vaccine worked? He's been doing better in recent years, since I've boosted his nutrition. Hasn't been bed ridden with pneumonia since.

But, I do acknowledge that there are real uses for drugs in emergency situations. I can't argue the fact that drugs have had a hand in saving some lives. But, as far as health in general, drugs don't really belong in the mix, unless a better alternative doesn't exist.

But, again, I feel at a loss arguing with you, when it seems all you want to do is invalidate everything I print. I have given plenty of information to back up my stance, and there is still more information that will be coming. You have a lot more to prove than I do. You have to somehow resurrect the tarnished image of Big Pharma, because I'm sorry Big Pharma is losing credibility, day by day. Until they clean up their act, and run an honest business, they will end up burying themselves, along with all the other thieves and cut throat criminals out there. The universe will not let them continue harm others, it will come back to harm them. You are free to believe what you want though. As for me and many others, we will continue to push forward in search of the truth.

There is more information to come. Brace yourselves ATSers.

Peace my ATS peeps!

Troy

Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by jameshawkings

Using our common sense is enough, we don't need sources.

THIS is the reason the anti-vaccine, anti-pharm, anti-whatever groups are NEVER taken seriously. You have effectively said, "I don't need science to make a scientific point."

If you're so certain something is true...RESEARCH IT. Raise funds, get a private lab to research it. Get the training yourself and research it. LEARN THE SCIENCE AND THEN PROVE YOUR POINT.

Making baseless, non-scientific claims WILL NEVER CHANGE A DAMN THING.

If you can't speak the language of the scientific community, you will never, never, never, never, never be taken seriously.

The anti-vaccine crowd do know the science and are educated (like myself) to a very high level in science, but we are also aware of the bigger picture. If you really do believe what you are saying I would strongly recommend getting onto a business module at a local college. Unless your half-truths are intentional; if so remember that half-truths are a full lie

Ok, let's get back to my thread. Plavix, reportedly used to help prevent clot related heart attack or stroke.

www.askapatient.com...

It's amazing with some of these stories how some doctors have a tendency not to believe their patients, and still try to make a patient take their drug, even though it's hurting them. I see numerous stories like this, when I read through these. Thank goodness for doctors who are waking up. I hope to see more and more in the future. I think there will be. You can't push a lie forever, people (including doctors) will figure it out.

Troy