Will 'Birther' Debate End?

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
"senior official" - yes that's correct - one who has stated that he is willing to tetify in court that 'it was common knowlege that there was no BC for Obama in hawai' -

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you had proof like "common knowledge"! My bad! Common knowledge - well, that would stand up in a court of law!

I'm sorry unless you can provide some proof of your ridiculous claim that Obama is elligable I am going to have to stop listening to you!

I cannot say whether or not Obama is eligible. I never have. I believe that he is, but I cannot say for sure. Perhaps you should START listening to me.

here is another 'senior official'

I just addressed that in the previous post. That's not what Okubo said. The Israeli Insider is NOT credible. They lie. My previous post has the direct quote from Okubo..

Yes, I think you should START listening.

reply to post by andy1033

I always care not about this as all americans are mostly foreign anyway.

But whether true or not why do you people even care?

Oh there is a VERY VERY good reason to care. If Obama is NOT the president then ALL the bills he signed into law just got pocket vetoes!

GOOD BYE TO
The Patriot Act
Obamacare
FOOD Safety Farce

and a hundred other useless money consuming laws.

I sure hope someone prove the guy is NOT a Natural Citizen!

Originally posted by crimvelvet
If Obama is NOT the president then ALL the bills he signed into law just got pocket vetoes!

Did you just make that up or did you read it in a blog somewhere?

Sorry, I'm in a foul mood. Gotta source?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Why the man just didn't release a copy of a certified birth certificate from the beginning is baffling.

He did release a copy of a certified Birth Certificate.

No, he did not. He released a 'certification' that such a certicate exists. There is a difference. I have both, myself. A 'birth certificate' is the original certificate signed by the attending physician. In times past you would get a certified photocopy of that very certificate on file. These days most states do not bother with that, especially as it all gets computerized. Instead, they uissue a 'certificate' that a birth certificate exists--a lot less expensive.

When Obama was running and still a candidate for the nomination, his web site had a real birth certificate on it. At kleast three document experts said it had been altered and was likely that of his younger sister. I saw it myself. Of course, that has all disappeared now.

The thing is, I would be cool with it either way. The end to this controversy is to simply say, OK. Here it is. End-of-Story. It's such a simople solution.

reply to post by whatukno


It would be interesting to see what nationality he put on his college and grad school applications.

I've long thought that the issue was not whether or not he was born here but rather that he claimed foreign birth to gain advantage, be it in admissions, financial aid, etc. Hence the no birth certificate and no release of college or law school records.

That would be almost as large an issue as not being American by birth.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I just addressed that in the previous post. That's not what Okubo said. The Israeli Insider is NOT credible. They lie. My previous post has the direct quote from Okubo..

Well here is that quote from Politfact - a pro obama site - are you going to call them liars too!

As for an embosssed seal you should see that from both sides, besides that's not really my concern, all a that document proves is that Obama was registered as a baby under a yr old and resident in Hawai.

The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obama's birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said. "I guess the big issue that's being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature," Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. "Because they scanned the front … you wouldn't see those things." Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received. And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? "When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it." Still, she acknowledges: "I don't know that it's possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents."

reply to post by whatukno


During the election Obama made the comment that McCain was NOT born in the US and not eligible to be POTUS. A couple of days later, McCain showed his long form birth certificate and said to Obama, OK, lets see yours! If Obama had shown it right then and there there would be no birther movement, therefore Obama gave birth to the birther movement by not showing his birth certificate.

reply to post by rangersdad


Odd that the short form birth certificate not only satisfied McCain, but FOX News, the electoral college, and Congress.

Course I wonder if the Hawaiian governor is just doing this to put TEA Party members and the GOP in a bad light. For the vast vast majority of people, this matter was settled long ago. When less than 0.13% of the population believes this crazy made up nonsense, that's pretty much a non issue. I think more people than that believe in Bigfoot, UFOs, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. And heck, all those people have more credible evidence.

I've got to agree that it is a political ploy to make the GOP look like a bunch of fools. I mean it is the GOP that is bringing up the birth certificate crap after all. I'm not much of a fan with the way this government is being run and who is or isn't running it. However, I cannot say that Obama is an American by birth or not. All that we can do is speculate on whether or not he is. For the Fixed News Channel to even say that they have had enough with the "birther" hearsay. That is astounding to me that a network hellbent on doing everything to bring down the Democratic Party to say that even they have had enough is just mind blowing. Then again they do praise the Republican Party as if the GOP can do no wrong.

Well, if I showed up at the DMV with a certification that my birth certificate existed, but not my true certified copy of birth certificate, would the DMV allow me to get my driver's license?
Would I be allowed to obtain a marriage license?
Would I be allowed to enroll in school?

Those are the questions we need to ask ourselves.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by rangersdad

 

Odd that the short form birth certificate not only satisfied McCain, but FOX News, the electoral college, and Congress.

Course I wonder if the Hawaiian governor is just doing this to put TEA Party members and the GOP in a bad light. For the vast vast majority of people, this matter was settled long ago. When less than 0.13% of the population believes this crazy made up nonsense, that's pretty much a non issue. I think more people than that believe in Bigfoot, UFOs, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. And heck, all those people have more credible evidence.

Strange then that recent polls as featured on CNN show 60% of Americans have doubts about Obamas elligibility.

As for it having been a consistently 'hands off topic' for MSM - despite it being 100% certain that if Obama had a BC he would have produced it on day one of the campaign - shows as not much else can, that Obongo's presidency is the result of a deal between the two NWO factions that run the US - one that can be anulled by either side, simply by decicding to notice he is not elligible.

reply to post by gimmefootball400


Exactly my point Gimme. Even Ann Coulter disagrees with the Birthers.



And even Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly can't buy into this moronic insanity.



reply to post by thegoodearth

Well, if I showed up at the DMV with a certification that my birth certificate existed, but not my true certified copy of birth certificate, would the DMV allow me to get my driver's license?
Would I be allowed to obtain a marriage license?
Would I be allowed to enroll in school?

None of those questions are relevant or germane to the discussion, and I'll tell you why. State issues versus Federal issues.

All of those questions are State issues, and don't apply to Federal issues like being qualified to be the POTUS. In fact, the Constitution does not specifically state what piece of paper is valid enough proof for someone to be qualified as a Natural Born Citizen.


reply to post by JohhnyBGood

Strange then that recent polls as featured on CNN show 60% of Americans have doubts about Obamas elligibility.

I think you are going to have to source that for us. I don't buy that at all.

Originally posted by schuyler

No, he did not. He released a 'certification' that such a certicate exists.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

The type of logic employed by some here is astounding to say the least.

A certificate certifies. Certification is a conjugate of certificate.
You just said that his certificate is not a certificate because in reality, it is a certificate.

PRICELESS!

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Well, if I showed up at the DMV with a certification that my birth certificate existed, but not my true certified copy of birth certificate, would the DMV allow me to get my driver's license?

Yes because those would both be the same thing. You do not get a certificate certifying the existence of a certificate. You get a certificate certifying your REGISTRATION.

Would I be allowed to obtain a marriage license?
Would I be allowed to enroll in school?

Those are the questions we need to ask ourselves.

Yes and yes. That is how I did it. You can make a few phone calls and find out for yourself whether or not a certificate counts as a certificate but something tells me that will not happen.

Seriously? "Certificate certifying the existance of a certificate?"
Do any of you hear this in your own head?

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Why the man just didn't release a copy of a certified birth certificate from the beginning is baffling.

He did release a copy of a certified Birth Certificate.

No, he did not. He released a 'certification' that such a certicate exists.

That is a birth certificate, it is a short form birthcertificate, and an acceptable birth certificate by Hawaiian standards.

Are you suggesting we make it a requirement for all presidents and presidential candidates to release their long form birth certificate? Because I have not seen one from any other president or person I know.

Now, lets imagine, for a second, that in order to become president you had to have your original long form birthcertificate. Now, how many Americans would be eligible for the presidency? Out of all the 44 presidents, I saw birth certificates from Obama and Reagan. Reagans birth certificate was registered in 1942, Reagan was born in 1911. Other presidents? Have not seen their original long forms. Let's take a real life example, I still supposedly have my old birth certificate, I have never for the life of me used it as evidence for anything. My friends? I asked two of my friends one day about it, none of them have theirs. My family? none of my relatives have their long form birth certificate. My cousin enthusiastically raised her hand to me and told me she had her original long form birth certificate. I had a look at it, it was registered 12 years after her birth. It was not her long form birth certificate.

Remeber Lakin? That military man in one of those eligibility lawsuits? Yes, I'm am sure you are are well aware of the man. He demanded (like you) for Barack Obama to show his birth certificate and as evidence of his point he decided to present his long form birth certificate. His was registered and created in 1992. Was Lakin 17 years old at the time?

This is in part why there are no straightforward requirements for presidential candidates to show their long form birth certificate. It makes no sense to put that as a requirement, neither does it make sense in some of these arguments that you need one to go to the DMV. That is simply a lie from personal experience

Originally posted by thegoodearth
Well, if I showed up at the DMV with a certification that my birth certificate existed, but not my true certified copy of birth certificate, would the DMV allow me to get my driver's license?
Would I be allowed to obtain a marriage license?
Would I be allowed to enroll in school?

Try it. Call them and ask. I've done it. All that's needed is the short form. But like Wukky said, it's a state by state thing. My husband only has the short form. He's married, has a driver's license and went to school. All the information on the short form comes from the long form, so it's virtually the same thing, just... shorter.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Strange then that recent polls as featured on CNN show 60% of Americans have doubts about Obamas elligibility.

Oh, really?

The question was: "Do you think Barack Obama was definitely born in the United States, probably born in the United States, probably born in another country, or definitely born in another country?"

Definitely in the United States got the vote from 42 percent of the respondents and probably in the United States another 29 percent.
...
Sixteen percent said Obama probably was born in another nation, and 11 percent said he definitely was born somewhere other than the U.S.

That means 71% think he was born here. Probably or definitely. And only 27% who think he was born elsewhere. Wanna retract your statement?

Source

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That still means 6 out of ten Americans have doubts about Obamas elligibility - all the more surprising given the complete lockstep, hands off attitude of MSM - trying to portray this as a laughable fringe issue.


That means that 6 out of ten would like him to produce some evidence that he is in fact elligable.


I know it is you job to desperately try to create the impression that this is a non-issue - otherwise if it was an issue, even a slight one, one that would cost him a few % points, one that would create negative publicity, one that would cause people to start investigating things they would never have bothered with.

Then that would beg the simple question why not resolve this 'non-issue' by producing his BC - but as we all know by now he simply doesn't have one! - and yes when he has done that I do want to see all the other records pertaining to his past that he has hidden away - in fact every single record that might indicate what nationality or name he was using at the time has been concealed.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
That still means 6 out of ten Americans have doubts about Obamas elligibility -

If that's what it means in your mind, then I'm not going to go there.

That means that 6 out of ten would like him to produce some evidence that he is in fact elligable.

Something else that came from your head, not the poll. So you won't retract your statement. I will remember that.

I know it is you job to desperately try to create the impression that this is a non-issue -

Wrong again. I am unemployed. But I have never said this was a non-issue. I have happily participated in many, many birther threads. It's clearly an issue for many people. And I have fun discussing it. I don't particularly want it to go away. It's too much fun.

Then that would beg the simple question why not resolve this 'non-issue' by producing his BC - but as we all know by now he simply doesn't have one! -

You don't know the difference between "know" and "suspect", do you? I can't say why Obama has chosen to go this route (and neither can you), but we certainly don't "know" that he doesn't have one. He has access to the best forgers in the entire world. If he wanted to produce a perfectly legit Hawaii BC, he could. I can't read his mind. I don't know why he hasn't either produced the original or a forgery. I simply don't know. And neither do you.

and yes when he has done that I do want to see all the other records pertaining to his past that he has hidden away - in fact every single record that might indicate what nationality or name he was using at the time has been concealed.

You are entitled to want whatever you choose. But you are not entitled to get it.

The issue to me, is not so much where he was born at, but why is he supressing this information, with a cabal of lawyers, at tax payers exspence? He is making people question his legitimacy, as well as his allegiance.

reply to post by tom502


Do you have any legitimate information to back up that he is doing anything of the sort? Other than the "lawyer bill" that from what birthers have been saying is what, 800 times the national debt at this point? Of course no one can ever bring anything to light that legitimizes these claims, all it seems to be is some statement like it's a well known fact with no documentation to prove the point.