Soul Birth

People seem to focus on what happens to a soul after death. Some believe it is reborn, some that it moves on to a better place, still others believe that it ceases to exit.

What I'm wondering about is *before* birth. Or if you believe in reincarnation, before the first incarnation.

Do souls exist before they are ever born? Could our future children be watching us - sort of the opposite of a ghost? Are souls born at conception/birth, or sometime before them (ie, a soul looking to be born)?

I can think of few examples of this idea. In Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" the Ghost of Christmas...Past? I think... shows Scrooge two scared, bedragled children hiding under its mantel, saying that these are Scrooge's children that will never be. This seems to imply that these are souls that were never born, but exist.

Are there other mentions of similar themes? I've read a lot about NDE in this folder, and I'm wondering if people ever see those who will come after, rather than those who came before.

What do you think?

Well people that believe in reincarnation, said that the soul is eternal and that before we are born into this earth life, the soul already knows who his parents are going to be and future of his life is already drawn, and is a pact form him and the other souls that will become part of his earthy life, ones the soul enters the new born he or she will remember part of his past live until about 4 to 6 years old and them the memory will take the new live prints, some people will still remember past lives but does are not many.

I hope this will help, is many books on the subject at your local book store.

Hmm, interesting idea you have there on the idea of the soul before birth, however isnt believing in that idea, meaning that you also have to believe in the idea of destiny. Additionally, there is also another possible problem to that problem, and that is the idea of alternate realities, since every possible scenerio is meant to be played out, doesnt this mean that there will have to be multitudes of our souls. UNLESS. before we are brought to the earth plain our soul exists as ONE, with every other alternate version, until each is brought to exist.

Personnally, I believe that the soul is something that is a resultant of something outside of the universe. Something that was about before the existance of the universe, just like the Q in Star Trek.

Just curious here - why does this imply destiny? If souls exist before they are ever born, does that mean we can choose who we are born to? Or is it random? I'm not sure how destiny fits into this idea. I tend to believe in a combination of destiny and free will - that there are some paths that far better than others, but ultimately we choose our own path.

Alternate realities sounds very interesting. What you suggest is that the soul exists outside of any reality until it is born. Then it would have multiple paths and multiple realities.

Could it also be possible that there is some sort of greater soul that births the other souls. Could that be God or deities?

These ideas are so interesting - I'm not sure if I believe in them, but I do like discussing them!

It is safe to say that being here as we are we were always GOING to be, one could argue fate as predeterminate or not until they are blue in the face but we ARE here so we were going to be. That said, once we die we will always have BEEN here forevermore after that. So in a long enough timeline in an infinite amount of space, it is entirely possible that all the conditions required to cause your life, the world you know and the life you have could cause it to happen again, exactly as it was, is now and will be. Just a thought. Peace.

Originally posted by Lucifer
It is safe to say that being here as we are we were always GOING to be, one could argue fate as predeterminate or not until they are blue in the face but we ARE here so we were going to be. That said, once we die we will always have BEEN here forevermore after that. So in a long enough timeline in an infinite amount of space, it is entirely possible that all the conditions required to cause your life, the world you know and the life you have could cause it to happen again, exactly as it was, is now and will be. Just a thought. Peace.

That idea of yours could be interpretated in the sense that the universe is nothing more than a continuous cycle, which can never be stopped. Since if your life was to start once more in the same fashion as it once did, wont all the previous components again have to be furfilled ?

Cercey,

These are age-old questions.

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No soul is born at conception or birth. All souls were manifested all at once billions of years ago. Some are more advanced in certain areas than others simply because they have cultivated those areas of development.

A number of metaphysical schools of thought espouse that we choose our parents. But it isn't anywhere near as easy as choosing one's vegetable lunch from a salad bar. There are always forces pushing and pulling to get who they want into a particular family and body. So to truly have something in the area of what one wants, without having to settle with a common family, there is a considerable waiting period involved.

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Absolutely. But they are only our probable children until they are actually born. Until then they remain discarnates or souls in the Spirit.

You know when you said that we are drawn towards our parents, in what sense the physical being or the souls that enhabit them ?

And the other point I would like to bring up is you know when you said that our souls are manifested before existance, does it mean that these souls only enhabit a body once or many bodied ?

Originally posted by racos
...souls are manifested before existence, does it mean that these souls only enhabit a body once or many bodied ?

I'm not sure if this question is being posed to me but I'd like to chime in if I may.

It is largely up to the individual as to inhabiting a physical body. There is no set rule regarding the number of incarnations and to have many of them in humanoid bodies does not signify an advanced soul -- since most people do not incarnate with a noble, selfless purpose/focus that enables them to truly spiritually progress.

I'm kind of going in the wrong direction here but what if there really isnt a soul persay? The idea of a soul comes from the believe in a higher being (to my knowledge) but what if there is no such being... What if our bodies are physical constructs of energy and our mind is our spiriutal being? We learn right and wrong as an AI would, through being taught and "programmed". But I will also say that right and wrong can just be what we perceive it as being.

Anyways back to the topic, if there is no soul then before we are constructed we are just energy that floats around and when we die we go and do that same thing. As we learn more and more about diffrent energies maybe someday down the line we will find out that maybe energy has an intellect which enables it not only become the engine and thought of a human but to also allow it to show itself pyshically as a ghost. Then again as someone said, there could be more then one dimension - which would totally change the way things would have to be looked at.

Just my opinion,
Mitch

Hi Mitch,

The research of Dr. Peter Fenwick, an internationally renowned neuropsychiatrist, Dr. Michael Sabom, a cardiologist, and Dr. Kenneth Ring, a professor of psychology at the University of Connecticut, all point to the existence of a soul, regardless of a belief in a higher being.

Dr. Michael Sabom's Research

Ken Ring's & Peter Fenwick's Research



[edit on 11-7-2004 by Paul_Richard]

Their research says a lot and defiently is probally more "on track" then my views but I still dont know about it... I dont keep up to date on medical research or any of that stuff but is it possible that even tho. the body is the dead, the brain can live on for a certain amount of time? Like say I went in for an operation and during the operation I died. I then see myself on the table and all that stuff about seeing my deceased relatives and such (typical NDE/OBE). Could that just be my brains final ... thoughts? Because when you dream it can seem like 6 days and really only be 2 hours. You know what I'm saying? Thats just my opinion and I'm not going to discredit anyone elses because they are more then entitled to it.

Lastly, I just wanted to say something that I had just recently come up with about my Energy/Ghost theory... What if the ghost we see is not necessary a energy construct but a pyshical representation of what our mind perceives as energy? Like lets say there is a type of energy called uhhh Energy ST50 and when our mind/senses pick up on this type of energy we perceive it as being a human image, possibly of someone we've known that has died etc. etc. Another example would be (I dont know if any of you guys have experienced it) when I walk around and no ones in the house I feel like there is something - all around me, its kind of like feels that I'm being shielded with hot light but I dont actually see anything. Could that possibly be the energy (the true soul) that is around me?

I know some of what I said has went a little off topic and I apolagive but being that is related to the soul in a sense I thought it would be appropreite.

Mitch

(Thanks for the links P_W BTW)

Hi Mitch,

You're welcome.

The brain dead issue is a good one. Fortunately, as in the Pam Reynold's case linked to above, there are cases whereby the brain is found nonfunctioning (i.e., dead) in all three clinical tests.

Secondly, there are accounts of NDE patients knowing things that they could not have possibly learned about unless their consciousness actually left their physical body -- dying brain chemical reactions notwithstanding.

You stated:

You make some fairly valid points... I'd say after reading those two sites and listening to other people I've become about 50/50 on the subject - 50 going to a soul and 50 going to pure energy. I guess only a higher level of science will be able to give the answers we trully seek, but hey thats what we are here to try and do correct?

But just to back up my theory a little as to not discredit myself - if enery in fact does have sort of intelligence couldent it be on a higher plane of "perception" then we as humans have? Just like the psionic skill of remote viewing - maybe the energy that makes us tick can do that on its on THEREFORE it can see things happen although we dont. Like how the woman that had the operation knew about the saw and what the lady said about her arties being small and such - could that just be the energy RV'ing?

Well, fortunatly I've come to the conclusion that yes there most likely is a soul... Maybe its not the soul we percieve as being a soul, but a soul made up entirely of energy. Both ways can be seen as a soul to a degree. So all theories of the soul being around before live can be true (reincarnation, selectiveness and just good ol' thought provoking energy).

Thanks again

No soul is born at conception or birth. All souls were manifested all at once billions of years ago. Some are more advanced in certain areas than others simply because they have cultivated those areas of development.

About the soul. Well...I have tended to beleve in the above statement. Here's why. If GOD is ALL KNOWING. Then our existance would have been evident to him at the creation...probably even before that. Actually...most definately before that because God has simply always known..*based on that belief) (Ok guys...I'm changing my mind as I write this so follow me. ) So, that being said you could also say that our potential for incarnation would have occured when the Material Universe was created. If God has always known about each and every one of us then that would almost suggest that we are indeed not Apart of "him" but A Part of "him". Now thats an idea I could buy into. Also, for those of you interested in the subject of the the soul I highly reccomend the Gnostic text "The Exegesis On the Soul" You can probably find it online.

Hi Mitch,

Glad to be of help.

I agree that the soul is a form of energy and one that can transcend the physical realm when free of matter.

Which is why spiritual mediums like myself don't hear about discarnates traversing the heavens and occasionally having the problem of getting sucked into nearby black holes.

Just a little metaphysical humor. *L*

Hi Adian00,

This is getting deep.

Traditional priests, ministers, rabbis, etc., often espouse that a part of God is within each and every one of us. This is often referred to as the "god spark."

A well-known researcher on the near death experiences of children, Dr. Melvin Morse, a pediatrician, once prayed for an understand of the relationship of souls to God.

The answer came back to him in a flash of insight: a "fractal."

A fractal is a piece of something that contains within it the blueprint of the grander design. Like a hologram, if you chip off a piece of it, that piece contains the entire hologram or blueprint within it.

Souls are fractals of light of The Original Creator.

Soul, what if it is something else made up be man. To make you do the right things. Another form of control?

That is so Brilliant Paul_Richard! Thank you for sharing that idea. You know, I've been reading Tomorrow's God...it it talks a great deal about the soul and how we really are God expressing itself as humanity. Everything seems to be falling into place and it's amazing watching it all unfold.


Adian00

[edit on 12-7-2004 by Adian00]

Originally posted by Adian00
That is so Brilliant Paul_Richard!

Sometimes I get lucky.

Originally posted by Adian00
Thank you for sharing that idea.

You're welcome.



[edit on 12-7-2004 by Paul_Richard]

I think, it is an interesting thing that someone can be an individual, and can take contril of himself. I cannot describe it, but actually from my point of view I see and feel the world outside of me, and I am looking for its description. If there is reincarnation, I would not really be a rat or a cockroach in my next life. But who knows, what the future holds?